adrian

pros and cons of both why one should by either over the other.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

Why come to an RX-7 forum and ask about Supra's?

I think you need to do a little research before you look at an FD. Do some searches here in the forum for topics such as "upgrades", "reliability", "compression", etc...

Also, visit a few sites that have information on purchasing FD's:

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/FAQ.html

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/reliability.html

Upgrade Stages:
http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/stages.html

93FD

you're asking this on an rx-7 board.....it's pretty obvious that we are gonna tell you to get the 7.

adrian

actually the reason for me bringing this up is becuase I have an rx7 and i love it the only problem is its hard to mantain becuase no one around where I live knows about them so anytime I get a major problem I either have to go to westpalm or take it to a half assed shop .I want to know peoples opinion on the comparision of them that shouldnt be a problem

neo_omega

this again? this comes up every other week.

adrian

well sorry for asking guys!

95R2-89TII Ground Zero

There ya go. Short and to the point.

adrian

ok, but why give me a reason know since you keep rubbing it in that my question was so obvious.

neo_omega

Do a search. This subject comes up very often. You will find a lot of info.

jimlab

If you want a more reliable car which requires less maintenance and special care, the Supra (or any of the other piston-engined Japanese sports cars, for that matter) is probably a better choice.

The Supra is a "GT" class car, not a small sports car, and people will tell you that because it has pseudo back seats (not really usable), that it's not a "real" sports car, but apparently the Supra doesn't realize that. They go like stink, especially on the top end.

Easy and cheap to modify, you can jump to 375+ RWHP with a downpipe, an intake filter, and a pressure bleeder in the wastegate actuator vacuum line, or by just bypassing the VSV solenoid which actuates the wastegate for about 18-20 psi of boost (stock is 11).

Damn near bulletproof, and you can still wax other cars while carrying huge amounts of weight. I had 500+ lbs. of bushing parts in my car and blew the doors off an MR2 Turbo that just wouldn't leave me alone. I also delivered an RX-7 5-speed in the hatch of my Supra, and could have probably stacked a couple more in there. Try that with an RX-7... a 17 inch monitor has to ride in the passenger's seat.

Great daily driver and comfortable for long trips, and slightly better gas mileage than the RX-7. The stereo system is even pretty good. I just put in an aftermarket head unit and an amplifier and drove the front stock midrange and tweeters from two channels, the stock subwoofer (6x9) with the bridged output from the other two, and ran the rear speakers off the head unit amplifier for rear fill.

Just don't buy one if you plan on autocrossing. They *can* corner, and make good road course cars, but the sharp turns of an autocross course favor a lighter, more agile car like the RX-7. Watching a Supra autocross is sort of like watching a transit bus slalom.

mightyslash

Come on guys, give it up for Jim.

Dr Wankel

Damn I almost fell off my chair

Satan's RX7

iTrader: (6)

the supra accelerates a lot faster with just a couple extra mods. My dad has a 94 supra with intercooler pipes, boost controller, intake, full exhaust, and the dyno on it was over 400 horses. on the other hand, it handles like ****, even with eibach springs, sway bars, and high performance tires. it is incredably comfortable though, drives like a lexus. my rx7 has all kinds of engine mods, and still does not put out as much horsepower as the supra. The rx7 will out handle it by a mile though, and is A LOT LESS COMFORTABLE as everyone knows.

JoeD

the Supra is truly an awsome car, and you gotta give it the respect it deserves (some people on here do not). simle modifications give insane results while staying as reliable as stock.

but the few things that i dont like about the Supra is that they are pretty big, and the front end/lights are kinda ugly.

just my .02

BTW Jim, when you had both cars, which one was just simply more fun to drive...the Supra or RX-7 (given that everything was running perfectly )???

jimlab

I never had the chance to back-to-back them. The RX-7 last ran in May of '98. I bought the Supra in January of '99.

JoeD

ahh...i see.

well to the best of your memory, how different was the Supra's responsiveness and overall feel compared to the RX-7?? did it feel like a much bigger car, with a lot of blind spots?? (someone i know mentioned the Supra having quite a few blind spots.)

TIA

black99

Yes jim gave a very good un-biased comparison..

adrian

thanks for your feed back,hollaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

NickSimcheck

Man I hate these posts.. I think the Moderator should delete them as soon as he sees them. (Not to tell you to do your job or anything) Just my 02 cents.
Nick

jimlab

Were you able to give the police a good description?

You know, of the man who held a gun to your head and forced you to read this thread???

nycRedRex

I have a bpu supra and soon to be single rx7. I can't really say for sure which one I like more. The supra has alot more space inside and therefore is more comfortable. Its better for cruising which I like to do alot. The power is undbelievable in the supra with just a few mods and i haven't had to fix a single thing on it. It handles pretty well for a big car and the brakes are incredible (don't need a big brake upgrade). On the road coarse it handles very well but it takes some practice and you really have to know the limits of the car. If you loose it in a turn, the weight of the car tends the grip to be lost very fast. Power is great on the straight aways. And I love the way it looks.

My rx7 was stock with just a catback till now. It is much better on the turns, especially on a road coarse. You really feel very secure in high speed turns. I lost the back end a few times and it is so easy to recover. The stock power was not very good on the straight sections, vipers and z06's were passing me pretty easily. The brakes were very good. On the street, the rx7 is actually nice to cruise around in. I had a nice stereo in it with a 10" sub and it rocked. Even though its tighter inside its still comfortable. I had lightened pullies and flywheel, so it really took off when i hit the gas and the stock power was pretty good for the street. The weight really makes you feel like your accelerating faster than the supra. I also love the way the rx7 looks, especially with aftermarket rims.

With my new single rx7 coming soon, I'm sure the nod will go to the rx7 until i go single in my supra.. hehe

ludeowner

Hey I have a question for all the MKIV TT owners here. You know how some people say that if you do three mods on an FD that increase airflow (DP, Catback, Air Intake, or Intercooler) that you have to upgrade your ECU.

How about with a Supra? what all can you do before you have to replace the ECU? and short of replacing the ECU what are some of the good piggybacks that MKIV owners use to add a little more fuel?

I would ask this on www.supraforums.com but I lost my password and it wont let me re-register.

TIA

MrZUMZUM

First........ if you don't like the topic don't read the thread.....as JIMLAB so eloquently stated.......
Second.......per Rodney King........."can't we all just learn to get along?...... boo hoo boo hoo"
Third.......the rarity of the REX is what appealed to me......I was at an motorsports dealer........ he had one REX and 7 supras for sale..........nuff said..........
LAST............to me, I still have to look at it........and the lines on the FD make it one of the best looking cars ever produced, JMHO......Love the cockpit area just as much.......I'm not sure what the Supra looks like to me yet.......... but my other analogies are, "miata's are great if you like driving a potato" and one I read somewhere was that " all Porsche's look sorta like Toads"......... which stuck with me....... esp. the 928 which has always been one of my faves...........LOVED the transit bus/slalom analogy...........

Just my $.03.........I think Nick still owes us $.01

Mr. Belvi

Yeah right, if we deleted every thread that people hated the forum would be empty.

You all need to stop telling people to search, just about every topic has been discussed and if every time a member had a question about something you told them to search there would be near to no discussion on this forum. It's kind of like me going to the Mazda dealer and asking them questions about thier cars and them telling me to go to the library to look it up. Give it a rest.

ps: You can't always search for things since stuff gets periodically deleted.

jimlab

Everything up to and including a reasonably sized single turbo. Seriously. The stock Supra fuel system is good for "around" 500 RWHP. The most valuable piece of information you can have when pushing that limit is the feedback from an EGT gauge.

The Supra is a mass (metered) airflow (MAF) based system and can easily compensate for any intake or exhaust modifications and boost levels up to 20-24 psi on the stock twins without ECU modification. The only piece of "electronics" required is a GReddy boost cut controller to clip the signal coming into the computer and eliminate fuel cut for overboost (11 psi stock) conditions. The stock intercooler is fine up to 24 psi, but upgrading to a FMIC will provide more adequate cooling and eliminate the possibility of blowing the crimped plastic IC ends off the IC. Yes, it is possible.

There are several small (TS04, T61) single turbo Supras with stock fuel systems pushing the bleeding edge at 500-520 RWHP, but by careful tuning and limiting boost level, you can make some healthy power without a fuel computer or fuel system upgrade. The highest output I've seen for stock twins is just north of 485 RWHP on the stock fuel system with 110 octane, no nitrous, no cams, no sprockets.

The next step for electronics is usually an HKS VPC, although they're becoming harder to come by, and I heard that HKS had discontinued it. The VPC eliminates the MAF sensor and converts the system to a speed density (same as the RX-7) system based off air temperature and absolute manifold pressure. It also eliminates the restriction of the MAF sensor in the intake tract, and one look at the Supra MAF will tell you why it's a major restriction to flow. The VPC can also control larger (720cc) injectors, and this coupled with a second MKIV Nippondenso fuel pump in the tank is the standard fuel upgrade for a mid-sized (T64, T66) single turbo.

Past that, larger (850cc) injectors and a custom fuel rail and braided fuel lines are necessary for supporting a large single turbo, and a larger fuel pump, as well as some kind of aftermarket fuel adjustment/tuning system, like the Fields fuel controller. The HKS VPC provides only very limited control over fuel delivery. Most people opt for a G-Force computer upgrade which also raises the rev limiter at the same time. Most of the big (T78, T88, T100) have precisely this setup. Keep in mind, this is still the stock ECU we're talking about. Obviously, Haltech, Motec, AEM, Electromotive, Wolf3D, PowerFC, and other standalone engine management systems can be used at this level, though.

So, to sum up...

375-420 RWHP - Basic Performance Upgrades (BPU)
- Downpipe
- Catback
- Intake
- GReddy boost cut controller
- "Bleeder T", VSV solenoid bypass or boost controller
- 15-22 psi on stock twins

400-485 RWHP - BPU+, BPU++, etc.
- All of BPU modifications
- Front mount intercooler
- Cam upgrade (optional)
- Cam sprocket upgrade (optional)
- HKS VPC
- HKS GCC (optional)
- Fields Hyper-FC or Apex'i AFC fuel controller, etc.
- 20-24 psi on stock twins
- Second MKIV fuel pump (optional)
- EGT gauge (recommended)
- 110 octane fuel for most power on stock twins
- Nitrous oxide (optional)

480-520 RWHP - Advanced Performance Upgrades (APU)
- All of BPU+ modifications
- Small (TS04, T61) single turbo kit
- EGT gauge
- Second MKIV fuel pump (highly recommended)

500-650 RWHP
- All of BPU+ modifications
- Medium (T61, T66) single turbo kit
- Medium cam upgrade
- EGT gauge, A/F gauge
- Second MKIV fuel pump
- 720cc injectors and 720cc chip for HKS VPC
- G-Force ECU upgrade (recommended)

650+ RWHP
- All of BPU+ modifications
- Large (T78, T78, T100 etc.) single turbo kit
- Larger cam upgrade
- EGT gauge, A/F gauge
- Large aftermarket fuel pump
- Braided stainless fuel lines and fittings
- 850cc or larger injectors and 850cc+ chip for HKS VPC
- Custom fuel rail
- G-Force ECU upgrade or stand-alone system
- Head porting (optional)
- Custom intake (optional)