greenhornetfd3s

for all of you who don't know the rotary is basically a two stroke motor since it burns a miniscule amount of oil each time the motor fires. that's why for the longest time if you put synthetic in your Seven it wouldn't run right because the synthetic had a different ash qualities compared to hydrocarbon based oil. but i'll get back to my point earlier about using mineral oil. for industrial rotories (i.e. air tools, rotary hammers, and such) the lubrication is mineral oil. It cools better for the turbo, it has the best ash qualities of any oil synthetic or otherwise, and it doesn't pollute.

rx7tt95

I found the interview I did with David over a year ago regarding Synth, specifically RP and a few others. Greenhornet he addresses some of your concerns. The rotary isn't a true two-stroke by any means. They're different animals and have oil in the combustion process for different reasons. Direct injection two-strokes change this a bit. Anyway, it's an unedited version of the interview so ignore grammer and spelling mistakes. Might be too long for one post. Suprprobe is my name on the big list, FYI. :-)

-----Original Message-----

From: SuprProbe@aol.com [mailto:SuprProbe@aol.com]

Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 3:10 PM

To: nitz@wt.net; dcanitz@royalpurple.com

Subject: Overboost.com/R. Purple Oil questions





David,

I pulled your email off of the egroups forum the first time I sent the volley

of questions in regards to Royal Purple products. It may be in your private

mail there...no idea. Anyway, I've retyped them below. I'm not sure how

much free time you have (I'm assuming very little!) so get back to me with

the replies as soon as you're able. I'm pretty much finished with the first

seven articles and I'm integrating a few interviews from Ray Lochhead of SR

Motorsports, Nick Niefner of N-Tech Engineering, and Duane Krumweide of

Crooked Willow Composites. I need to have everything ready by Sunday. Reply

below each question as it'll make it easier to integrate everything. Don't

worry about gramatical details or spelling, I can correct those. I will

probably use very few quotes and most of it will be paraphrased. I will

quote technical information however. Here it goes...



David, tell me a little bit about Royal Purple the company and your

involvement with them? What roll do you fill for Royal Purple (maybe a brief

job description or a list of tasks you tackle?) Oh, include your full name

and official tittle as well.

DC>

Royal Purple Inc. is a privately owned manufacturer of high performance lubricants. (it is not

an offshoot or in any way affiliated with any of the majors) We have three divisions, Industrial

Products, Retail / Racing Products, and LongRider Trucking Division. These are explained at our

website www.royalpurple.com. Royal Purple has pioneered a high film strength additive system

trademarked 'Synerlec'. Royal Purple started in 1985 and really started to grow in 1990 having

significant positive growth for each subsequent year. Royal Purple has a tremendous industrial

following in rotating equipment such as pumps, compressors, industrial blowers (Roots), gear

boxes, etc. In racing, we have come onto the scene and been successful in drag racing,

endurance racing, boat racing, and road racing.

I handle the day to day technical requests from all three divisions as Technical Services

Manager.



Does Royal Purple test their products outside the laboratory, specifically in

racing situations? How about experience racing rotaries? If there has been

experience with rotaries, has there been technical feedback extolling the

virtues of RP oil used in those engines?

DC>

Royal Purple has been tested in Cart Turbocharged engines, IRL, Ferrari V-12 WSC, NHRA & IHRA

Drag Racing, as well as Boat Racing including Lamborghini Marine Racing in Europe.

Rotary engines are my hobby, having raced in SCCA since 1982 starting in what is now SOLO II and

progressing to a tube framed GT3 Bridgeported 12A.

Because of my personal interest, I have made available our product to some of the best well

known rotary specialists for testing within the last 5 years. It was not easy to get these

'experts' to look at new technology. Initial dyno testing in rotaries has been very positive

showing a 2% increase in horsepower. This has been documented by Jim Mederer at Racing Beat in

several engines. Check out www.racingbeat.com under comments in the Royal Purple Motor Oil

description.



What other products does RP offer besides motor oil?

DC>

Royal Purple manufactures several thousand different lubricants, many of them very specialized

for the rotating equipment at refineries and chemical plants.

In automotive products, we offer nine API Licensed Motor Oils (6 multi-weights and 3 straight

weights) for the street, in excess of 15 specialty Racing oils, 3 two cycle oils, a

Mercon/Dexron ATF for automatic transmissions, gear oils for manual transmissions and

differentials (limited slip and standard), power steering fluid, assembly lubes, greases for

wheel bearings and chassis, a penetrating lube spray, a fuel injection cleaner / concentrate and

a surfactant coolant additive, universal tractor fluids, and Caterpillar Manual Transmission

fluids.





What are the different motor oil products offered by RP?

DC>

API Street Oils

(5W30 SJ/ECII,10W30 SJ/ECII, 10W30 CH-4/SJ, 10W40 SJ, 15W40 CH-4/SJ, 20W50 SJ, SAE 30, SAE 40,

SAE 50), 2 Cycle TCW III

Racing Oils

RP 2008, RP9, RPlite RP11 RP11lite, RP21, RP41, RP51, Nitro 30, Nitro 50, Nitro 60, Nitro 70,

Racing 2 Cycle

Then another 30 industrial engine oils for natural gas, diesels, and marine applications.



How do the racing formulas differ from the "normal" synthetics RP offers

(racing 41 vs. 10W-40 RP)

DC>

It's the secret formula that if I disclose it I'd have to take drastic measures.....

No, the street oils are really racing oils that carry the API Licensed for the consumer who has

OEM warranty needs. The Racing Oils are made with more expensive components for the racer who

is looking for increased horsepower and torque performance beyond the Royal Purple Street Oils.

These are intended for the serious enduser who has high dollars invested in a motor for racing

purposes, not a dual purpose street / strip / track car.



Explain the difference between RP synthetics and conventional oils in

layman's terms.

DC>

Conventional oils(?) are crude oil that gets refined (cleaned up) by distillation or solvent

refining to remove the natural contaminants found in the crude oil. This process gets

increasingly more expensive the purer or more refined the oil becomes and at some point, the

major refiners stop and say this is clean enough. These are what are referred to as Group I,

Group II, and Group III hydrocarbon baseoils. The newer Group III baseoils (also sometimes

referred to as hydrocracked) still have as much as 3-5% contaminants that can affect the life of

the oil.



A synthetic baseoil can be derived from many different chemical stocks. The type most commonly

used in motor oils is a PAO (Poly alphaolefin) and Ester combination and is derived from crude

oil components that have been broken down into elemental stage, then combined back together at a

chemical plant with a catalyst to make a perfect hydrocarbon molecule containing zero

contaminants.



Both a mineral and synthetic motor oil contain baseoils and performance additives. The Royal

Purple Motor Oils also contain our proprietary 'Synerlec' additive system.



What about other premium synthetics? Does RP have a performance advantage

over them? What about the mass market synthetics such as Mobil 1?

DC>

Mobil 1 is a good benchmark. It is a quality product. There are several other brands that are

similar in performance to Mobil 1 (imho). I have yet to find another product that performs like

Royal Purple in all aspects especially the high film strength. Other synthetics can match the

high temperature and low temperature performance but none have the high load carrying capacity

due to Royal Purple's 'Synerlec'.



What are the specific properties that lend RP oil for use in rotary engines,

specifically the third generation 13B-REW twin turbo model?

DC>

High Temperature resistance to oxidation (turbo's)

Strong oil film strength resistant to fuel dilution and fuel washoff

Excellent solvency to minimize carbon deposits

High film strength for reduced wear and increased performance



Are there any potential problems using synthetic in the third generation

motor?

DC>

None that I know of other than rumors and wive's tales.



Do you know the backround on Mazda's decision to ban synthetics in their

rotary engines? What are your thoughts on their decision? How does the RP

oil get around those restrictions? In other words, what makes it compatible

where other synthetics aren't?

DC>

I have tried to find actual data regarding this and have yet to track this down. It seems to

stem from some early seal compatibility back in the 60's / 70's. It was easier for the factory

to make a blanket statement rather than to spend a tremendous amount to testing budget to verify

if 'all' synthetics had the same problem.

To the best of my knowledge, a synthetic hydrocarbon based motor oil should not cause any

negative effects in a rotary engine. If the synthetic motor oil is based primarily on something

other than a PAO, there could be seal issues, but none that I have seen verified.

The benefits outweigh the negatives, IMHO.



There are "synthetic" oils on the market that aren't true synthetics, case in

point, Castrol Syntec. Would this oil have any advantage over traditional or

even RP synthetic oils?

These are the Group III oils and they have definite advantages over Group II or conventional

Group I oil in high temperature oxidation resistance. They do not have any performance

advantage over Group IV oils other than price. They are cheaper to manufacture.



What sort of change intervals to you recommend for RP synthetics in the third

generation RX7?

DC> Follow OEM intervals for stock engines. Running extended drain intervals does not seem to

be a priority with this group of owners as most change every 2000-3000 regardless of the oil

being used. I would recommend up to a 5000 mile interval using Royal Purple in a stock FD

unless fuel dilution is a problem. I have been analyzing several FD owner's cars and have seen

very high fuel dilution using mineral oils, as much as 5-10 times greater than a piston car.

In most normal applications, such as an FB, FC or even diesel applications, Royal Purple

recommends up to 12000 miles with continued oil filter changes at 3000.



How about performance gains. Care to make any claims?

I'll let Racing Beat do the touting, check out www.racingbeat.com.

It's not uncommon to see up to 2% horsepower increase just by changing the oil



Does RP offer sponsorship programs for racers?

We have a small program through our Racing Department which can be contacted through

www.synerlec.com. It consists mainly of product support and contingency programs.



Is RP releasing any new products in the near future?

DC>

Always working on improving all products. Nothing that I can comment on at this point.



Enjoyed it.



David



I hope everyone found the information interesting.

CanadianRex

I had this e-mail from a guy at Red Line oil a couple of years ago and have been using it ever since. I don't put very many miles on the car per year, so I can't really say if using it has cause any ill effects. Is there anyone putting huge milage on their 13b's running sythetic? What type? I use Mobil 1 in everything except my FD.

Dave Granquist's e-mail from Red Line was as follows:

We do recommend the Red Line oils in rotary engines, we have used them
successfully in both street and race applications for a number of years.
I think their main concerns are either sticking the apex seals and/or
carbon locking the rotors. The Red Line Oils burn very clean in the engine
and offer excellent thermal stability, they don't leave deposits on the
seals or on the rotors. They will work very well.

In your engine I would recommend the Red Line 10W30.

Thank you for your interest in Red Line Oil.

rx7tt95

I've been putting serious miles on my car as of late. I've been using RP (first Racing 41 now 10W-40 SAE grade RP synth) for almost three years now. I purchased the car with 9,600 miles and I'm just hitting 60K with no ill effects (AFIK without tearing the engine down). I hope to be swapping in a fully built engine within 3-4 months and I'll make sure to tear the engine down and take a look at the innards. Should be interesting at the very least.
Michel

sexxy7

I found that info VERY interesting! Thanks for posting it!

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Since switching to Mobil1 15w50 over a year (and 20k miles) ago, my R1 runs 5 degrees celsius cooler (as per the powerfc commander) in all instances--at idle, cruise, and WOT. The car also revs more smoothly and the turbos seem to spool quicker.

I change every ~2k miles. I'm never running regular dyno juice again.

amemiya

I have found only one ill effect from running synthetic, I small carbon biuld up on the rotor housing by the trailing plug. nothing to be alarmed thow it is a very small amount ov about 50k miles, I normaly rebuild my motor every 20k-25k. but yea it's no enough to over way the side housings have almost no ware on them vs mineral oil. synthetic is hands down better.