Most of what I say on this post is just my opinion.

This is my story.

I bought my FD on 6-14-2010, I drove it everyday from Carson, CA to Santa Ana CA (about a 30min drive) for work. It was a great dd.

The car only had 14k orginal miles on it when I got it.

Last year on, 5-22-2013, at 66k miles...the stock motor blew while cruising down the freeway doing 70mph in 4th gear. (I had a racing beat muffler and fujita downpipe, stock everything else)

I took my FD to a well known Mazda specialist out in Signal Hill, CA. With all said and done, I paid 14k to have my motor taken out..rebuilt with a new rear rotor, new rotor housings, 2MM ceramic apex seals, WPC treament, ARP studs, new side seals, new clutch, new flywheel, new fuel filter, new supra pump, injectors sent out for cleaning, radiator cleaned, the whole nine yards.

I completely babied this new motor during the break in. I drove it for 6k miles without going past 4k rpm and changed my oil at 500 miles first and then every 2k after that. Besides the apex seals, Racing beat muffler, and Fujita downpipe(my stock pre cat broke) everything else is stock.

After the break in...with worries about boost with the downpipe and muffler, I got a Power FC and had it tuned on 8-11-2013 by RRR in Santa Ana.

On 10-26-2013, cruising home from San Diego...my new motor blew the rear rotor(which is what happened with the stock motor), cruising at 70 in 4th gear.


Now that I have my car back and rebuilt again..I'm actually afraid to drive it, though I did drive it home with zero problems. (18 miles)

This is no way to live.

MY issues are that I have no warranty, and I'm afraid the car may break again so I don't want to drive it till I can be assured things are all in running order.

I took all of the recommendations given to me, and quite frankly, I feel taken advantage of..


When I asked the builder why this happened after I followed all of their recommendation's, he simply said "I don't know" and so did the owner.

Basically, both the owner and builder told me its the tuner's fault, and the tuner tells me it's the builders fault.

Car made 232hp and 232 ft-lb on California 92 octane.

Has PowerFC (bought online at Banzai and retuned on dyno at RRR) , 2MM 1 piece Iannetti apex seals (was told by owner and builder these are "indestructible + zero wear"), 3in downpipe, and 3in muffler.

I'm Lost. Please Advise.

 

Something doesnt sound right. Your motor with these "reliability mods" should of been fine even with the factory ecu @ 10psi boost. Can you find out more about the tune from RRR? AFR, timing, boost, etc. I dont think its tune related if you were just cruising on the hwy.

I am surprised that this shock recommended fitting ceramic seals on such a stockish platform. You would of been way better off with oem or other steal type seals such as als, goopy, etc imo. Cost would of been much lower as well. You essentially had a built motor ready for some serious high reving hp, not something suited for what seems to be a DD type need.

 

something doesn't seem right....generally you don't blow a motor from just cruising when the culprit is a "bad tune"....generally

I think we need more info on what actually "blew" on the motors. Was there any picture documentation of the parts? Did a side seal or corner seal go or was it the apex seals?

It seems odd that both instances the motor went at the same time during the same conditions and I'd like to think that is more than just a coincidence.

more info is really needed before the experts on the board here can really help I think.

Sorry to hear....did they cover the latest replacement at least?

 

Ceramic seals are great for NA applications, but not so much for boost.. WAY to expensive and they destroy anything in a 50 mile radius when they blow (which happens with boost)..

It's a bit of a hike for you, but if I were you I'd run up to Joshua Tree and have Illicit Performance give your car a once over. Illicit is one of two shops I'd trust, no questions asked, with my FD.

 

ARP studs on a rotary?

Two words for you: Auxiliary Injection.

 

I was under the impression that these parts were going to last a very, very long time.

Thanks for the quick response too, I appreciate it.


All the apex seals in the rear rotor broke. This is the case for the original motor and the rebuilt.

All cost of the re-rebuild were covered by the builder with the agreement that the new motor would not be under any type of warranty.

Here is what I have from the tuner.

 

14k for just rebuild? Lol

 

Signal Hill... I assume that would be Mazdatrix.

Explain to us exactly what happened on both occasions that the rear rotor blew. What sounds did the car make? Any smoke? Temps? How much boost was the car making?

232 rwhp is a very low dyno number also. So that seems odd also.

Upload your map so people can take a look at it.

Definitely not normal.

 

Always get a warranty on rebuilds and or motors.

 

Both time's I was on the freeway at 70 mph in 4th gear. I accelerate to 70, like getting onto an on ramp and then I just cruise.

The first time the motor blew it sounded like something was dropped into the motor and it popped like lots popcorn was being made. I exited the freeway and it was running super rough. I could tell the motor lost compression. When it came apart the seals were mashed into the rotor and the housings had a lot of chatter marks.

The second time it happened I was on the freeway in front of the coaster station near Camp Pendleton. This time I had the PowerFC and commander. I saw the the water temp was at 85c, the knock bar had 1/8th of the bar full. There was no smoke coming from either motor. Car makes 11psi

I'll upload the map once I figure out how to do that.

Also, I would LOVE to have an Auxiliary Injection System. I need to find out who can help me out with that in my area.

 

send me your Power FC map. the few pages you did post are not enough help. it is easy to break a motor in 4th or fifth at lowish revs if the tune isn't correct.

we need to know a lot more about your setup.

BTW, and i unfortunately speak from experience, ceramic seals really shouldn't be in most turbo'd rotary apps. you would be much better off w a more malleable steel seal.

i wouldn't drive the car around the block without an AI system.

howard

 

Thank you Everyone, and Thank you Howard. I will send my map to you tomorrow. I appreciate your help greatly.

-Jason Grimm

 

Sorry to hear about your problems, but isn't 14k pretty steep on a rebuild? I havent done a rebuild myself, but at 14k of cost and labor I would just buy another rx7. It sounds like you got taken advantage of with that price.

 

I understand the use off auxiliary injection when making decent power but is it on a stockists motor?

 

Blame it on the shitty horsepiss called 91 octane in California. I have lost 2 motors to overheating prior to moving to California and one motor to cracked apex seal after moving to Demokratic Republik of Kalifornia.

I got into boost around 10 psi on a car that had 35,000 miles (and tuned in Arizona by Steve Khan) and it blew the rear apex seal.

Bought a used motor, street port which had 20,000 hard track miles; installed water injection and haven't looked back in the last 5 years, boosting to 17 psi consistently. My experience has been that as long as I have water injection above 5 psi, there is no worry. I have dared colleagues to overboost it to 19 psi and only one ever got into fuel cuts (numerous times) without blowing the motor.

So whatever you do to the next motor, put in water injection. Water it's what is needed. FWIW, all the 1500 whp Lambo and GTR are running at least water injection.

 

Based on the story, its probably the tuners fault. Your gonna get a lot of people telling you many different things. But the bottom line, the tuner's job is to verify the car is in working order and tune the car safely. The power level you are making is ridiculous to blow an engine that soon. The stock tune with would have been safe on your setup and power level with maybe a little less trailing timing, very silly.

To add... Ceramics are not indestructible at all but they do provide zero wear. However, they are stronger then factory but when they break lots of damage occurs. They have no place in a turbo motor even though I had very good success with them in my own car road racing. The damage caused if something goes wrong outweighs the no wear positive.

And as a personal note/opinion. 14k for a rebuild? Are you ******* kidding me? That should have cost you less then 5k for a stock rebuild (less then 4k really). Knowing the power level you wanted, the builder shouldn't have added on all that extra crap, most of which is useless for you. But its probably not the builders fault.

thewird

 

Yeah 14k....it's highway robbery if you ask me. I feel like a slave to these people because it's the only shop I can go to around my area with a mostly good reputation.

I drove for 50k miles without any hick ups on the original motor.

I was under the impression that I was doing the right thing with the apex seals; thinking to myself oh good the motor will last for at least 100k mi, then the cost would make more sense to me. But this is just ridiculous.

Once again Thank You for everyone's advice.

 

my take on ceramics is that they are only REALLY worth it when you are running NA motors racing.

The formula mazda has 1 spec engine builder. and the ceramics go through several rebuilds.

my advice now?

Buy a reman motor, take it to another rotary shop that wont charge you an arm and a leg on labor. and have them swap everything in. its still going to be expensive... but no where near 14k.

also, i havn't dipped into the AI world. but with 91 octane only.... id be definately looking into it.

 

What the point on harping about the 14k he spent on the rebuild? He's already paid and that's done. There's no benefit in making him feel bad about it unless you plan on actively supporting him through the battle of discovering overcharges and reclaiming funds. Let's just help him by figuring what's going on with his engine / tune.

 

For all of you following this thread and posting to it, Thank you for your time and insight.

I went to the tuner today and asked him for my map. (I'm still trying to figure out what type of file the map is, and how I can obtain it)

Instead he kind of beat around the bush.

I could tell he wanted sorta wanted to be helpful, but he didn't give me a file.

Instead he printed out these three pages for me, one or two of which I've already uploaded.

It's probably useless info.

Can I get my map off the PowerFC on my own or do I need to have the tuner email the file?

Sorry for all the amateur questions..

Thanks

Jay

 

See if you have access to a datalogit and use the FCedit program to save your map onto your computer. Then you are free to upload it without any trouble

 

Yah the tune is on your computer (obviously). You just need a datalogit to pull it off.

thewird

 

That right there should tell you not to ever go back to that tuner. Theres a reason hes beating around the bush. Getting your map would take him all of 5 minutes to accomplish.

 

Out of curiosity, was it nelson?

 

I dont understand the comments about A.I and california 91octane. Yes A.I is an amazing buffer for rotaries, and 93 is better slightly vs 91. But his motor didnt blow because of the absence of these. I use 91octane no A.I and ive never gernaded my motor. This applied to my old original motor and my current rebuilt single/streetport. A good tune and quality build is vital.

Nelson has tuned my car before.. lets just say I spent a few days street tuning the car myself after. 230whp is almost stock power. What was he (the tuner) doing?