R12 ac vs R134
08-04-11, 02:26 PM
#1
R12 ac vs R134
Has anyone upgraded their system to a R134? I went to get it recharched and nobody would touch it because it has a R12 AC system, also no places sell the R12recharge canisters except a few I just found on amazon.com.
Anyone else run into this problem?
Rolling in 105 degree weather is killing me.
Anyone else run into this problem?
Rolling in 105 degree weather is killing me.
08-04-11, 02:44 PM
#3
Wastegate John
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see this thread https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/recharging-c-options-opinions-needed-959485/ dont convert to 134a
John
John
08-04-11, 02:48 PM
#4
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Better, safer, and cheaper are replacement refrigerants from:
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ...rant&Trying=ON
Use their R12 commercial replacement, it works better than R12 in my 92 R1.
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ...rant&Trying=ON
Use their R12 commercial replacement, it works better than R12 in my 92 R1.
08-04-11, 02:48 PM
#5
Many people have converted, but I don't recommend it unless you just can't get R12 or find someone to refill you. The system (condenser) was designed for R12, so using R134a makes the system less effective as it wasn't designed around that refrigerant.
It's been years since I had mine recharged, but I used a Goodyear Automotive shop for the work.
It's been years since I had mine recharged, but I used a Goodyear Automotive shop for the work.
08-04-11, 03:00 PM
#6
Many people have converted, but I don't recommend it unless you just can't get R12 or find someone to refill you. The system (condenser) was designed for R12, so using R134a makes the system less effective as it wasn't designed around that refrigerant.
It's been years since I had mine recharged, but I used a Goodyear Automotive shop for the work.
It's been years since I had mine recharged, but I used a Goodyear Automotive shop for the work.
08-04-11, 04:52 PM
#8
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+1 for the es-12a, no need to switch over, works in both 134 and 12a systems and is colder and cheaper. Follow the link above and get the sub super alternate, I might have to try that kit out, right now I have the es-12a and it is coldddddddddd.
08-04-11, 09:23 PM
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I have had 134a in for 3 yrs,just evacuated R12,installed new schraeder valves and went in with134a,did not change lubricant.The air temperature in the vents was 43F with outside air at about 94F and high humidity.
08-05-11, 08:36 AM
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Has anyone upgraded their system to a R134? I went to get it recharched and nobody would touch it because it has a R12 AC system, also no places sell the R12recharge canisters except a few I just found on amazon.com.
Anyone else run into this problem?
Rolling in 105 degree weather is killing me.
Anyone else run into this problem?
Rolling in 105 degree weather is killing me.
Have you been talking to shops that specialize in auto A/C work? I think the "we won't touch it" problem that you're seeing is simply because most shops only have R-134a recovery machines these days. A specialist should still have an R-12 machine.
It should be noted that the refrigerants marketed by envirosafe are blends of propane and isobutane in varying ratios.
08-05-11, 11:05 AM
#18
Find any and all leaks, get the leak(s) fixed, replace the drier if you have a Nippondenso system, and stay with R-12. It is double the price of R-134a ($12-13 per can vs $25 per can), but we're really only talking about an extra $25. It will perform better, and the system components will last longer since it will be running at lower high side pressures. System holds just under 2 cans.
Have you been talking to shops that specialize in auto A/C work? I think the "we won't touch it" problem that you're seeing is simply because most shops only have R-134a recovery machines these days. A specialist should still have an R-12 machine.
It should be noted that the refrigerants marketed by envirosafe are blends of propane and isobutane in varying ratios.
Have you been talking to shops that specialize in auto A/C work? I think the "we won't touch it" problem that you're seeing is simply because most shops only have R-134a recovery machines these days. A specialist should still have an R-12 machine.
It should be noted that the refrigerants marketed by envirosafe are blends of propane and isobutane in varying ratios.
I am going to have the lines and everything checked out when I get it charged, as of right now I can only find 1 place around me with R12 and wants to charge 100$ for a 12 ounce can as he only has 2 left. Ive called about 5 places around here and thats about all there is, I might be missing a few but I might just end up ordering off the internet.
08-05-11, 01:37 PM
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I am going to have the lines and everything checked out when I get it charged, as of right now I can only find 1 place around me with R12 and wants to charge 100$ for a 12 ounce can as he only has 2 left. Ive called about 5 places around here and thats about all there is, I might be missing a few but I might just end up ordering off the internet.
08-05-11, 03:59 PM
#21
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I would read the thread by theorie, a few of us have gone with the ES stuff and it is great. Today it is 91 with 67% humidity and I drove my car all around town, felt great. When I had R134 in it I never used the AC because it was pointless, it was cooler to have the windows down.
08-05-11, 04:13 PM
#22
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I should also add that while yes the ES products are a variant blend with propane, they have a higher combustion temp than R134 and R12 making them safer in high temp engines. I am about to try the industrial version of their es12a.
08-05-11, 07:29 PM
#23
R134 is not an upgrade, in fact, it's a rather lousy refrigerant (unless you have a centrifugal compressor, which no vehicle does).
I generally agree with the following:
I recommend 2 cans of ES-i12a (the industrial version) it has a slightly higher operating pressure. Yes, vacuum the system--you don't want any air and especially oxygen in there.
There was a treatise on this if you search on 'Freeze 12', I think.
R12 works fine if you want to pay for it. The advantage of ES-i12 type refrigerants is that you get the same cooling capacity; however, they load the compressor & engine much less than the other refer types. It's such an improvement that you really don't even notice the air is on based on engine loading.
Propane (R290) and Isobutane (R600a) are both classified as and commonly used as industrial refrigerants. They're very good, very efficient and used properly--perfectly safe.
I generally agree with the following:
Better, safer, and cheaper are replacement refrigerants from:
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ...rant&Trying=ON
Use their R12 commercial replacement, it works better than R12 in my 92 R1.
http://www.es-refrigerants.com/produ...rant&Trying=ON
Use their R12 commercial replacement, it works better than R12 in my 92 R1.
There was a treatise on this if you search on 'Freeze 12', I think.
R12 works fine if you want to pay for it. The advantage of ES-i12 type refrigerants is that you get the same cooling capacity; however, they load the compressor & engine much less than the other refer types. It's such an improvement that you really don't even notice the air is on based on engine loading.
Propane (R290) and Isobutane (R600a) are both classified as and commonly used as industrial refrigerants. They're very good, very efficient and used properly--perfectly safe.
08-05-11, 09:28 PM
#24
R12 works fine if you want to pay for it. The advantage of ES-i12 type refrigerants is that you get the same cooling capacity; however, they load the compressor & engine much less than the other refer types. It's such an improvement that you really don't even notice the air is on based on engine loading.
08-06-11, 05:02 AM
#25
Yes. The ES I-12a seems to offer better performance in expansion valve regulated systems (such as the FD) which can take advantage of the slightly higher operating pressure. The only difference between the regular and the industrial ES12 refrigerants is the blending ratio of the its components.