so i bought this fd from my friend. he had the motor replaced and said it ran flawlessly for about 50 miles then just cut out on him. he determined that it was flooded or possibly a stuck injector so he tore it down to the injectors and tarped it. i purchased it in this state after it sat for about 4 months.

i had the injectors cleaned and then had a pretty decent fd mechanic came by and helped me with putting it back together. all i had left to install was the intercooler piping and he had another engagement so i was on my own at this point. finished it up and tried to crank and sounded very strange.

sounds like a normal rotary cranking but randomly hits, almost like its really really out of timing but only randomly. i had my brother help me and we tow started it. it fired, smoked and idled relatively smoothly but if you touch the throttle at all, it stumbles and sputters. after about 5 mins of idling in the driveway, it just died. we tried to tow start it again and nothing. put 5 gals of fresh gas in it and still no on the tow start.

important notes. it is all stock except for a greddy intercooler. stock seq. all emissions in place. everything is stock.

friend said that the PO took it to a shop and they could have possibly for some reason de pinned and reorganized one of the harnesses.

next weekend i will be installing a known working engine harness and probably a body harness but that sounds like a huge job. hopefully someone can give me some insight before i tear into the car that deep to needlessly replace a body harness.

sorry for the length of post. thanks for any help.

 

Start off with a digital multimeter first. Check to make sure the fuel pump, ignition, relays, etc... are getting power. Take the plugs out and check their condition and to see if the car is flooded. If the car is pretty much stock I don't have any idea on why anyone would mess with the harness, unless the car has had electrical issues before and they are bypassing a relay or something.

Do you hear the fuel pump prime up before you start it?

 

First compression test to rule out the motor is bad than check out the the tps, map,cas sensor,etc

 

i will start testing sensors. i do hear the pump prime when i turn it on

i have not put a compression tester on it but i did pull the plugs to listen to chambers. it has all even and solid pulses.



i hate electrical. its the worst

 

Sounds like a project. After you figure it out, you'll know more about the car, which will certainly come in handy in the future. How is it PO determined car was flooded or had sticky injector? Just wondering about the trouble-shooting there.What is the condition of the plugs? Nice to have 4 new ones on hand, and will allow you to easily eliminate those as a problem too. You mentioned it smoked and idled normally, what kinda smoke? White gas smoke or something else? Was engine rebuilt or just replace w/new or good one? Not likely anyone would de-pin harness connectors, at least not on purpose for that job, plus you said the car ran great for 50 miles.

Does the engine seem like it is turning over slower than normal w/key? Replace plugs and check em all for spark. Remove injectors/rails as an assembly and try to maybe put a small pc. of plywood with towel on it between injectors and engine. Run the fuel pump w/diag. connector and see if fuel comes out of injectiors, it should not. If you do this, have someone else and fire ext. handy. Of course next step is to use key and see if gas comes out. Have circuit opening relay out for this so car ignition cannot fire. Dont know if this will help but w/an FD there are gonna be times where it is necessary to mechanic up, but always remember safety first.

The reason I ask about speed of engine when cranking w/key is if it is to slow, could be internal problem, which pull starting may still allow it to try and run. How about your MAP SENSOR?
Good luck

 

posts on local forum from PO


it turns over at normal speed. pfc says its about 250rpm. but it hits, not like a chug to start but like a hit that slows the rpm down to about 100rpm. like raw raw raw raw duh raw duh raw raw raw raw duh.. and so on
also if i hold throttle to floor, it seems to somewhat alleviate that "hit" issue and almost chugs to life.

is there a way to check or set base timing?

 

Shouldnt slow down like that, rpms I mean. When you say hit, you dont mean like metal on metal noise do ya? How about any strange feeling in clutch pedal while cranking or running after pull starting?

Compresson test is probably in order I'm thinkin, it would take that out of the equation too.

Ok, assuming you do have fuel/spark/air, it may be possible you have a serious intake leak, but I doubt it from what you have stated. I gotta be honest, I'm thinkin it may be low compression dude, but lets assume it isnt.

Crank angle sensors/water thermosensor/throttle sensor/ECU/ignition timing could all be messin w/ya too. Do you know how to test these? Make sure crank angle sensor connectors are good. Any gas in oil? Wonder if the injectors are sucking air?

 

Well if you hear even solid "chugs" when you turn the car over thats a good thing.
Make sure you have your sparkplugs / leads all hooked up to the rite place. My bet is your sparkplug leads are mixed up.

 

No metal on metal. No funny clutch.

Just to verify, how are the plug wires supposed to go?

 

On my car, the trailing leads (leads for the top sparkplug) are blue coloured.
And the leading leads (lower) are black.

Also if your running two different heat range plugs. You want the ones with the higher number in the trailing (top) spark plug hole.

 

It sounds like your car is in limp mode if you can't give it any throttle. The new engine harness sounds like a good place to start. I can't imagine the body harness is bad unless it has been modified OR is rubbing on the top of the tire. Look above the drivers side tire to see if the fender liner is missing or has a hole in it and the harness is touching the tire.

 

It has a power fc in it now. Not sure if they have limp modes but ill check the harness just to be sure. Also all plug wires are blue. Trailing coils are separate but leading share one box. Does it matter which leading coil goes where?

 

What kind of diagnostic gauges do you have on the car? can you check base fuel pressure when you jump the pump? Also, have you checked spark on all 4 plugs?

 

I'd check your spark leads first and replace the plugs. It could just be that it's trying to run on the trailing. I had fouled my leading plugs, and it was trying to start on the trailing, and if I could get it to catch and run, it wouldn't rev, and stank like raw fuel. Threw in an older set of plugs that i knew were good just to see, and it fired up first pop.

 

also a set of plugs which you will change regularly anyway and even a new wire set is wayyyy cheaper than a new engine harness.

You may just have your leading coil wires connected to the wrong rotor. I would doubt that you've got a much more complex problem.

If the engine was running, compression is good, and it's getting fuel, and he didn't screw with the powerfc, then it should fire up. Worst case scenario if he messed with the powerfc, just reset it to the base map, and it will at least run.

 

nope, as long as both leading cables are plugged into the center coil you are good to go. do you have a commander with the PFC? if so, you can do a sensor check to see if all of your sensors are reading properly.

 

yes i have a commander.

i will do a diag tonight when i have some time.

 

So i made some progress. I changed out the coils and their harness and now it cranks normally. I changed out the plugs (which were not as fuel soaked as I expected) for fresh ones. Still no start. We pull started it and it chugged to life. It ran very rough and only on one rotor. tons of smoke, assuming fuel, and I had to keep it between 2500-3500 to keep it running. Dropped below 25 and died. Serious flood or another issue?

 

Similar thing happened to me when I tried to start my fd after the last rebuild. Wouldn't start with new coil and new plugs; It was cranking, I could see fuel on the plugs and I was getting spark.

I was using my landcruiser to jump start it but with no luck... I towed it and got it to start after about a 100m tow... smoke everywhere and running a bit rough, i drove her back and tried to start it again... nothing... put a brand new batter in and BAM! started right away!

get a fully charged new battery just to be on the safe side!

 

How long did you keep the throttle up before you let it die?

Flooded engines can take a few minutes to clear out and run normally.

Also if you haven't already, verify the MAP signal is getting through and it's hose is properly connected to the manifold.

David

 

If the compression is above 80psi on each side the motor should starts up without being pull. Once you done the compression test take the green relay out and spray starting fluid into the TB if the car starts right up you'll got fuel problem.

 

ok did some more work and trouble shooting..

thinking it may take even a few minutes for it to clear itself out, i had my bro tow start me again. we sat in the driveway for about 10 minutes letting it run at about 3000. the motor running at this rpm sounded somewhat normal but it was not very responsive when i tried to rev it higher and stumbled a lot if i let it drop. also took quite a while to get to the 3000 rpm again. so we held it there. no more smoke still same issue so i let it die.

i pulled plugs and did comp test. front rotor 90psi; rear rotor 60psi. remember new fresh motor, im hoping seals just arent sealed yet. everything even. sounds healthy with plugs out anyway.

checked spark. both leading plugs fire strong.

left me to figure out fuel. thinking maybe the pfc has problems, i plugged in the stock computer. pump doesnt even prime on stock, at least i cant hear it. back to pfc

started tearing down the top of the motor again to get to fuel rails to check if the injectors are actually flowing. all 4 fuel injector clips are much too easy to remove. ran out of day light before i could get to the rails to remove and test.

is there an easy way to test injectors without pulling them and doing this? pfc says duty cycle is @ 9%

also. what color are which injectors? right now the red top ones are in secondary rail, the greyish whitish purpleish are in primary rail.

thanks for any more help or advice.

 

rear rotor at 60? Low compression, probably need a rebuild again.

-AzEKnightz

 

um.. motor has >50 miles on it. and is seemingly bone dry. im sure if it was getting premix or fuel in it, it would jump to where it is supposed to be.

 

put some ATF in the rear rotor then do compression test. See if it comes up. Sounds like you've lost a corner seal to me. Who did the engine build?