t-von

iTrader: (8)

So basically you would rather him just spend hundreds of dollars for a rebuild and not exhaust any other cheaper means in possibly correcting the problem? IMHO rebuilding should be a last resort.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Explain what cheaper means you know of that repair seals?

It's very simple, and compression tests don't lie. Seals form compression. Lack of compression = a problem with the seals. I see no way around this.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Thats the thing. Your already assuming that he has seal damage. Stuck side or corner seals can give you similar readings to what he got during the compression test. My 20b had zero compression when I got it. It was brought back to life when I de-carbonized it on the engine stand. I didn't even have to open up the engine to do it. There are other guys currently on the forum that are successfully de-carbonizing their engines bringing back the compression. Trust me there are little things that you can do to avoid huge expense provided there is no seal damage. He could also pull the turbos and do a visual inspection of the apex seals and housing. Here's one guys success story so far.

https://www.rx7club.com/general-rotary-tech-support-11/testing-new-cleaner-carbon-stuck-seals-467673/

Doing this is cheap and cost effective and doesn't hurt anything. If it doesn't work, them he should consider opening the engine.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Explain to me why a seal would "stick" on a freshly assembled engine? Certainly not from carbon buildup. That means, that even if your guess is correct and a seal is stuck, that it is an assembly problem...too tight a seal slot, or too long/wide of a side or apex seal.

Either way, it isn't going to fix itself, which is what you're suggesting.

But hey, yeah, go right ahead and do that snake oil magic trick and let us know how that works out.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I already explained the possibility earlier. Go check my previous post. Besides I never suggested it would fix itself. For that to happen he would need to just drive the car and "hope" it fixes itself. Lastly you seem to have a problem with this method care to explain why?

mdpalmer

iTrader: (24)

I decided to take the car out to have it washed yesterday. Drove very gingerly abot a city block away. Got back home and shut the car off.

Woke up today and noticed a pretty serious collection of oil under the car (not really a "puddle", but definitely noticable). The amount of oil seemed very similar to what I had when I noticed the spark plug was loose.

So I cleaned up the engine bay once again to see if I could find the leak. I'm pretty sure it's not the oil filter pedestal or the oil pressure switch.

I'll start the car back up tomorrow and try to locate it. But in the meantime, what the hell is this thing? If you look closely, the threads on the yellow boss appear to be partially screwed into the block. Also, the black unit that is plugged into the boss seems to have a lot of sideways play.

What is this thing? THe FSM calls it a "heat gauge unit" if I'm not mistaken... Could this be the culprit?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I guess when you do what I do for years, you see a lot of dumb ****, and I just hate to see people that won't accept the facts, or spend lots of time and worry trying to correct a problem in vain, with some sort of snake oil type treatment.

People bring me a blown engine, and are all like "yeah, I changed the oil and plugs and fuel filter and had my injectors cleaned, put some of that seafoam into the engine, ran 10 bottles of injector cleaner through, put in some MMO, and some ATF, added some oil ring treatment, a bottle of octane cleaner, cut the exhaust in half just in case it was a clogged cat, took off the air filter, changed the coils, reset the timing, and had an excorcism performed, but it still didnt run any different."

And I ask, "did you ever run a proper compression test?", and they usually answer "no, blah blah" with whatever excuses or reasons come to mind. And some of them even answer yes, and say that they thought it must not be accurate or whatever, which perplexes me even more.

And of course I laugh, open it up, and show them that there isn't a single apex seal in half of the engine, and they're like "oh". I guess at that point the realization that they look pretty dumb hits them.

Dont get me wrong, I've heard the stories that a friend of a brother's dog's cousin had a rotary engine that tore up and was fixed by some magical additive or fluid being injected and is still running 9's in the quarter with 300k miles on it to this day. And I've even seen a few of them, say 1 in 100, that do actually get 'resurrected" you could say, by some water injection, atf, or seafoam treatment. BUt it's damn rare, and it's more a "legend" than anything.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

That's the coolant temp sensor, it runs the dash temp gauge. The oil leak could not come from that. I see oil above there, on top of the rotorhousing. Looks like you have a leak from elsewhere.

On some of the engines there is an extra nipple on the intermediate iron, back side, where the rotorhousing meets it, just above the M in mazda. IF present, it should be capped off. Check to see about that. Other than that, check your intake piping at the throttlebody for oil deposits pushed through the intake from your turbo...though it'd have to be really bad to seep that much.

You sure your oil filter seal isn't leaking on the front side, spraying a bit of oil out that you can't see?

I would hit that whole area with a bottle of degreaser/greased lightning and then hose it off while running, and then rev the engine up and watch for the leak, using a bright light and maybe even a telescoping mirror.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Believe what you want. I speak from personal experience. As mentioned earlier I've done this (so called snake oil treatment) method to free stuck seals on my 20b successfully. It's not like this is a waste of this time if the engine truly is blown. Just like you have a problem with people not accepting the facts, I too have a problem with everyone naturally assuming their engine is blown.


https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=467673

I'm curious! Are you going to tell the gentlemen in this link that he too is wasting his time?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Just because you did this on your engine and it worked, doesnt mean it will have any measureable success on all the other hundreds of engines out there that have problems. Besides, even if your method DOES work, it only works for those few engines that have true carbon locked seals, and those are few and far between. Furthermore, that condition only applies to engines that have sat for extended periods of time, such as your jspec. An engine that was running great one minute and lost power the next did NOT suffer from a stuck seal caused by carbon buildup. An engine that has run only 800 miles does NOT have sufficient buildup to cause a seal to sieze. So your method does NOT apply to this engine.

I guess you're one of those who works with one, maybe 2 engines, and declares himself an expert on the matter, disregarding the observations of someone like me made with years of experience on hundreds of engines. Nothing that is said to you will sway your opinion, and you won't let it go until you get the last word. It's people like you that make people like me not want to come here and post and try to help out, because of all the other bs that has to be weeded through.

When the guy finally breaks down and finds out there's an internal problem, one that seafoam won't correct by removing **800 MILES** of carbon buildup, then I'm sure you'll be there to support him. Hell, maybe you know of a way to pour some jb weld into the intake or exhaust ports, in an effort to form brand new seals without ever opening up the engine!

mdpalmer

iTrader: (24)

OK, thanks for the info. The nipple, sure enough, is where you described it. What should I cap it with though? Standard rubber/silicone nipple (caps) probably woudn't tolerate the heat too well. Also, what is the nipple for?

I did some reading on others' oil leaks, and some people brought up issues with the PCV system. I'll do more reading, double check the leak location, and cap off that nipple. Thanks again.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

A regular vacuum cap from autozone should be okay, at least for a few months. I regularly use these on my engines and though they dont last forever, they are okay for a year or so most of the time. Try a 1/4" or so. The nipple is not used on any of the 93+ engines, and most 94+ engines do not have it. I am not sure why they put it there...a similar nipple was used as part of the purge valve/pcv system on older engines.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I believe that however, 800 miles with loose spark plugs lowering compression which leads to an improper burn of the fuel air mixture leaves this possibility. Thats was my whole point.



Assume what you want of me. I'm not going to make this personal just because we obviously have a difference in opinion. Just as nothing will sway your own believes because obviously you are closed minded. Fact is none the the above methods I've mentioned will hurt anything. And that's a fact. This gentleman may need a couple weeks or so to gather money together for a possible rebuild if necessary. Notice that I said possible because neither you or myself know the true problem within this engine until it's actually torn down. In the mean time there is nothing wrong with him doing this. Lastly Your not the only one here trying to help.



Was the above quote even necessary.

mdpalmer

iTrader: (24)

Thanks Kevin, I ended up plugging the nipple with a pretty sturdy vacuum cap (it took some work to get to the damn thing) and took the car for a romp. Boosted up to about 10 psi (at 5k RPM... didn't want to blow my engine any more than it is already) and drove it home and let it cool off.

Popped the hood... no more oil!!!!!! I came back a few hours later...... NOT A DROP!! So the nipple doesn't serve a functional purpose on the 3rd gen, eh? I hope this info may help someone else....