OMG!!! I'm going crazy searching the smic vs. fmic...
04-21-06, 03:44 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by CantGoStraight
Has anyone actually placed a temperature sensor in the box types to see how hot they are in traffic as opposed to how quickly they return to ambiant temperatures when moving. I'm wondering if that slot generates any pressure in a closed box as opposed to an open back shielded type like the Pettit version.
http://www.fd3s.net/intake.html#COM
Well i also was looking into heat soak and such...
1) sitting for a LONG time in stop-and-go traffic in peak summer months. Guess what, once you finally get out of the traffic jam, just drive for a few minutes and you are fine.
2) at the end of a track session in summer track days. Guess what? If I had an FMIC, I would have had to stop sooner due to excessively high water temps.
The V-mount solves both of these problems, but is expensive and puts the fans at risk for damage from road debris. I still think it's the best solution for a regular tracked FD.
04-21-06, 03:53 PM
#27
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Originally Posted by rynberg
Heat soak is overrated as a problem
Who cares what the intake temps are when you're stopped? You're not going anywhere!
04-21-06, 04:04 PM
#28
Originally Posted by CantGoStraight
Has anyone actually placed a temperature sensor in the box types to see how hot they are in traffic as opposed to how quickly they return to ambiant temperatures when moving. I'm wondering if that slot generates any pressure in a closed box as opposed to an open back shielded type like the Pettit version.
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Originally Posted by spurvo
So I finally got the hell around to doing all this, been running it for about two months. To start, I left the support bracing (i.e. the "grids") in place and only cleared the holes. I removed the cross-box that feeds air from the IC duct to the front of the intake box, and sealed the IC duct and intake snorkle with race tape. Initial impressions were that the intake temps as measured right in front of the primary turbo inlet using a thermocouple and Fluke meter showed roughly the same temps as were found before the mod during regular cruising, as well as the same temperature rises when the fans were turned on to cool the engine. HOWEVER, the temp drop when going from a stoplight with the fans on to regular cruising was much quicker, and the temps actually dropped, rather than simply ratcheting higher as one drives, as was the case with the stock set up. What really was nce to see was the drop in temps at the intake elbow, again via thermocouple and Fluke meter, plumbed into the AWS intake pipe. Here, the temps were found to run ~5 C cooler on average, but the real nice thing was how quickly the intake temps get back down from any rise they incur, either through turbo usage or fans blowing on stock IC. This is of course due to the fact that the air duct is now forcing all the air through the IC, with none slipping by into the intake. Note also that I've removed the battery from the engine bay and blocked off the cooling duct for that as well. So all air goes through the IC.
I still see intake temps running between 25-30C on the freeway, with jumps to 45-50 with turbo usage. But they drop RIGHT back down again as soon as the heat load is removed. Driving with the fans on (really not needed on the freeway, just wanted to see...) gives ~35C or so, no real shift from normal cruising. Sitting and idling with the fans on still raises the intake temps to ~55C or so after a while, but they will cool down to the 35C or so when driving again. It now only requires a sustained 35mph or so to get this to happen, whereas it needed 40-45 mph before.
So I had to tear the turbos off due to doolant leak on the coolant return line (note to 'yall: replace the sealing copper washers EVERY time you loosen a banjo connection. They will NOT reseal with the old washer...), and decided to take adams advice and pull the bracing. It wasn't doing much anyway (box is **** for strong!).
I will tell you there is a MAJOR difference between leaving the bracings in and removing them. Whether this is turbulence related or just raw cross sectional intake area, there is DEFINATELY more power and faster spool with them removed.
Good product, and mine is especially good as it still retains the "inspected by" sticker.. a real "kick"
I still see intake temps running between 25-30C on the freeway, with jumps to 45-50 with turbo usage. But they drop RIGHT back down again as soon as the heat load is removed. Driving with the fans on (really not needed on the freeway, just wanted to see...) gives ~35C or so, no real shift from normal cruising. Sitting and idling with the fans on still raises the intake temps to ~55C or so after a while, but they will cool down to the 35C or so when driving again. It now only requires a sustained 35mph or so to get this to happen, whereas it needed 40-45 mph before.
So I had to tear the turbos off due to doolant leak on the coolant return line (note to 'yall: replace the sealing copper washers EVERY time you loosen a banjo connection. They will NOT reseal with the old washer...), and decided to take adams advice and pull the bracing. It wasn't doing much anyway (box is **** for strong!).
I will tell you there is a MAJOR difference between leaving the bracings in and removing them. Whether this is turbulence related or just raw cross sectional intake area, there is DEFINATELY more power and faster spool with them removed.
Good product, and mine is especially good as it still retains the "inspected by" sticker.. a real "kick"
04-21-06, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DamonB
Exactly. After about a minute of forward motion the heat soak is gone.
Who cares what the intake temps are when you're stopped? You're not going anywhere!
Who cares what the intake temps are when you're stopped? You're not going anywhere!
I guess I was making more of a heat soak condition than needed be. I just figured the open style like the Pettit would cool off sooner (once you get moving) than a box style as I would think it would take longer to cool off the air in and around the box. I don't typically jump right on it after being in stop and go traffic but like I asked earlier about the two schools of thought (through cooling like the Pettit) or closed off like the M-2.
04-21-06, 04:51 PM
#30
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Originally Posted by Kevin T. Wyum
You get a gold star.
In my estimation ignoring this is the most widespread screw up FD owners make. The myriad of people with open filter elements in the engine bay or no filter at all really need to do some serious reading. Probably the most fundamental misunderstanding people have is, "...it doesn't matter how hot the intake air is since it's all going to get cooled by the intercooler."
Anyway just wanted to make note of your #3.
In my estimation ignoring this is the most widespread screw up FD owners make. The myriad of people with open filter elements in the engine bay or no filter at all really need to do some serious reading. Probably the most fundamental misunderstanding people have is, "...it doesn't matter how hot the intake air is since it's all going to get cooled by the intercooler."
Anyway just wanted to make note of your #3.
I just thought it would be a good idea if possible. I mean, i would rather breathe nice fresh air rather than hot musty air. For example, it's not nearly as comfortable to breathe the air from a sauna rather than from a freezer. lol
04-21-06, 04:52 PM
#31
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Originally Posted by dubulup
^thats about the worst info/advice I've read on the subject.
By the way I love your car
04-21-06, 06:10 PM
#32
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http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/
Project RX-7. Read parts 6, 7, 8, and 9.
Some more info about the M2/ASP intercoolers and other SMICs.
Project RX-7. Read parts 6, 7, 8, and 9.
Some more info about the M2/ASP intercoolers and other SMICs.
04-21-06, 06:17 PM
#33
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Well i just got done with a long debate with the father about the V-mount set-up. He agrees that it is a good idea to run it if it's a track car, but for a street car it's not so good. He says that for low speeds to stopped would be a overheating problem.
He said this:
"If you were stopped, then the hot air rises going through the intercooler and also requiring that the fans must turn on due to the new way the radiator sits. The old way, the heat went out the back of the radiator which helped cooling. The new way goes out the front unless the fans are on. Now it would be fine if the fans were always on but that would just wear them out fast. We all now that it doesn't matter if the intercooler got heat soaked because it would cool off quickly when you got going. What is important is that when stopped, the hot air wants to rise out the FRONT of the radiator. But once the fans turn on, it pulls the hot air down through the back of the radiator which counteracts with physics and the whole "hot air rises" thing."
So i guess i'm basically asking how the v-mount works when air isn't being pushed through the cores when stopped???
He said this:
"If you were stopped, then the hot air rises going through the intercooler and also requiring that the fans must turn on due to the new way the radiator sits. The old way, the heat went out the back of the radiator which helped cooling. The new way goes out the front unless the fans are on. Now it would be fine if the fans were always on but that would just wear them out fast. We all now that it doesn't matter if the intercooler got heat soaked because it would cool off quickly when you got going. What is important is that when stopped, the hot air wants to rise out the FRONT of the radiator. But once the fans turn on, it pulls the hot air down through the back of the radiator which counteracts with physics and the whole "hot air rises" thing."
So i guess i'm basically asking how the v-mount works when air isn't being pushed through the cores when stopped???
04-21-06, 07:56 PM
#34
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Your dad doesn't know what he's talking about. Heat rises from the radiator period, no matter which way it is oriented. In a v-mount config, the fans will draw the hot air back down toward the ground. It works. The result is less heat soaking of the IC in ANY driving conditions.
Besides, the fans will come on during idle on EVERY car on the planet....what's the big deal here?
Like I said above, if I were driving an FD that was 75-100% street, I would not do a v-mount. It is too expensive and too exposed to damage for my tastes. Check out my undertray thread I just bumped for a reason why.
We've been modifying these cars since you were in 1st grade....quit trying to reinvent the wheel. SMICs work in every condition and only lose to an FMIC in drag racing conditions.
Besides, the fans will come on during idle on EVERY car on the planet....what's the big deal here?
Like I said above, if I were driving an FD that was 75-100% street, I would not do a v-mount. It is too expensive and too exposed to damage for my tastes. Check out my undertray thread I just bumped for a reason why.
We've been modifying these cars since you were in 1st grade....quit trying to reinvent the wheel. SMICs work in every condition and only lose to an FMIC in drag racing conditions.
04-22-06, 10:14 AM
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It's so funny reading everyone defend their position for the 100th time.
Just tell me one thing for those guys that post all measureed data, why the hell cant they just stick to the facts. It like reading a debate on global warming a few facts and a jump to conclusion to support their point of view.
On a street car just about any upgraded IC setup is more effective. You have ask yourself what to want to achieve and how much are willing to spend.
Just tell me one thing for those guys that post all measureed data, why the hell cant they just stick to the facts. It like reading a debate on global warming a few facts and a jump to conclusion to support their point of view.
On a street car just about any upgraded IC setup is more effective. You have ask yourself what to want to achieve and how much are willing to spend.
04-22-06, 11:21 AM
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Not trying to hichjack, but how do the greddy and ARC smic compare to the M2 and ASP that are always being mentioned. Are they a worth while upgrade, A local has told me that they are not different enough from stock to bother with?
04-22-06, 01:33 PM
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There like 2x-3x larger. They would improve things if you're tuned to make more than stock power. At stock power levels it wouldn't have much effect. You would likely see more boost because of better flow.
04-22-06, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by adamtassell
Not trying to hichjack, but how do the greddy and ARC smic compare to the M2 and ASP that are always being mentioned. Are they a worth while upgrade, A local has told me that they are not different enough from stock to bother with?
Originally Posted by Mr rx-7 tt
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