https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...postid=2022061

Jim's bushings seem to be very carefully machined. I still have nylon rod stock from differential bushings I maded that drastically improved a swing axeled Triumph gt-6 at track events. But I see jim's bushings as 90+% track bushings, and 10% ecd purchasers that don't get the added maintenance, and finess needed to install and lube properly.

1) Quick search showed that Jim has noted tight clearances to the collars (.001"), and at one point 17% glass mentioned. Still I would predict about 2-3% moisture induced swell for nylon 6/6, and with od constrained, this may tend to pinch the collar at the ID. Delrin and rulon/teflon bushes have no moisture swell, but more $$.

2) With long L/d ratio per bushing, bushing alignment is critical to even out load distribution. But, eccentric bolts in both upper and lower control arms guaranteed to induce bushing misalignment, with wheel alignment spot on. Stock bushings have soft rubber layers to absorb this, but nylon is 100x stiffer, and will not compensate. Even the cheaper polyurethane bushings, if available, will self align to some degree. Bottom line, after wheel alignment, best to decouple the strut, loosen pivot bolts and retighten with bolts moving in bracket hole clearance to maximize bushing alignment. With s-bar and strut decoupled, arms should freely swing up and down. then recheck alignment.

3) relube required. can reduce wear rate 10x. zerk fittings should be part of install process. the lower front and upper rear control arm bushes are critical in that they constantly support the car weight at the top of bushing bore. strut load should be negated when lubing these bushings, to drive lube to the loaded side of bushing. hard to check for wear in most wear prone bushings when strut is connected.

4) mods ... I'd consider 2 close spaced grooves at the entry and exit of each bushing bore. this would hold some grease as a seal, and easily oblong to absorb any unavoidable misalignment. grease should be waterproof, and with solids (tfe, moly) since hydrodynamic films ain't going to happen in the oil within the grease.

would be interesting to see rest of the worn bushing pics. just one person's opinion, but seems simialr geometry with conventional soft polyurethane would be better for street use. For the track, a rulon , delrin af, or lubed nylon nsn? nothing wrong with design evolution.

 

nothing wrong with design evolution

true....but most people don't want to offer up their car as the guinea pig

great post

 

STill doesn't explain why it starts clunking after 15-20 miles of usage.

When the car was aligned, the four wheels were resting on respective plates. At that time, the shop loosened the control arms, moved the pivot to the desired alignment and then tightenened the nuts.

 

Your analysis shows that basically, the nylon bushings were designed w/o alot of these considerations taken in, tested, and validated to account for the differences b/w the materials.

It was, here, install it this way, grease them up and welcome to the best bushings in the world.

But any little misalignment coupled to the load could damage them. Good thing they're captured in the bores of the control arms.

I was a little leery about installing them initially and didn't want to be the guinea pig. I even waited by letting the bushings sit for close to two years before putting them on. I even did one final search on the forum before putting them but no one had posted anything w/o the constant assuage and assurance that yessiree, as long as you lube up, you're ok.

There is a reason why a set of the Mazdaspeed bushings cost $1500.00: it wasn't done by a guy with a CNC machine; real engineers did the real work and analysis, and that ain't cheap.

 

Upper front control arms do not have any eccentric bolt. Only the lower front control arms.

 

As far as I can tell, you haven't even figured out what the problem with your car is. You need to stop Jim-bashing, bitching, and whining, tear down your suspension, and find out what is really going on. You don't even know if it is Jim's bushings. Then let us know what you find.

Until you actually take apart your suspension, it is pure speculation what you car's problems are.

 

it sounds like something put excess stress on the bushings....

if you ignore jim's reputation, and ignore pomanferrari's mechanical skill, as both are irrelevant in my example....

the number of units sold that are succesful with various mileages on them sort of point to an alternate source of failure on pomanferrari's car

i agree with paw140, take it apart...document what you find

 

I'm inclined to agree. We have pics of some bushings that obviously have a problem...but not on pomanferrari's car. Take it apart and inspect the bushings. Before I did that, I would go around and re-torque everything and go for another drive...just to make sure.

 

The energy suspension polyurethane grease I have been using is called Energy Suspension Formula 5 Prelube. I drive the car daily, for the past 2.5 years. Seems like every summer the bushings start making noise again. So I regrease them. I live in Portland Oregon, I drive in a **** load of rain, I do not have grease zerks installed, i just take them apart once a year and regrease them. It's really not that hard.

You can find the grease here:

http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerc...81&prmenbr=361

I used the grease initially on my 73 Duster with polyurethane suspension bushings installed. It too starts making noise after about a year of daily driving. If you don't want to work on your car, do not buy aftermarket parts, do not replace factory parts with non factory parts (aftermarket). If you do not want to work on your car LEAVE IT STOCK! This goes for anything, cars, trucks, atv's, watercraft, motorcycles, etc.

If you do not enjoy working on your car, DO NOT own a 3rd gen rx7, or anything performance oriented for that matter, especially one that is 10+ years old!

 

So you walk in and stir up a big hornet's nest but refuse to actually prove to yourself what your own problem is? It very well could be your bushings are bad but unless you disassemble them you can't know for certain. The first step is to determine if the bushings are bad and then you can try to figure out how they went bad. Slamming everyone involved because of your best guess is nonsense.

This thread could have been about 1 page long if you just would have taken the time to know for certain what is going on with your car before flying off the handle and going apeshit on everyone. So now we're left with what you think may be wrong and in the meantime you're going to continue accusing the manufacturer of your bushings as the culprit for your problem because it makes you feel good? You don't know what your problem IS. You have squeaks that start after driving the car a short time that you think might be the bushings. The only fact you have presented is that you have a strange sound that comes and goes. Why not get more facts before declaring what's at fault?

As soon as someone else posted pics of bushings which somehow failed you latched onto that and declared "eureka!" You're running around crying wolf and claiming the sky is falling without having verified anything. You may be completely right. You may be completely wrong. Only one way to know...

 

If you mark the eccentrics in the lower arms it will be just fine. I've removed all the front control arms and had bushings replaced and then reassmebled it all. Afterwards I had my alignment checked by the same shop I always use before my next event and it was not off enough to even worry about. Rolling it off the rack and back on would have produced the same change.

 

One would probably get the patient to the see the appropriate doctor and investigate the problem. I highly doubt the doctor would jump on the internet and proceed to tear apart the manufacturer of the pacemaker before making an effort to isolate the problem himself. An ethical doctor may ask colleagues for help, but not resort to slandering the manufacturer without any kind of proof.

 

The collective knowledge of the large user group with these same bushings seems to be they have had no trouble with them. That doesn't mean that you are not but in order to have any sort of evidence that these bushings are in fact your problem unfortunately you're going to have to present some facts other than that you don't like jimlab, 93BlackFD or myself. We've got that one.

 

I can't grasp what your continued issues are with my being a Moderator but please send BOOSTD 7 or Jason a PM and explain your issues with me. Refer them to any threads or PM's you feel illustrate a problem and explain your point of view to them. I have no problem with that.

Your very first post in this thread is very objective. You know you have some sort of problem and your best guess is that it is related to the bushings. You ask for others to share any similar experiences. You state "I'm guessing it's the front bushings...I'm pretty sure it's the bushings although I do have to check on the sway bar bushings...Any one with very high miles on these bushings? Any noises etc.?? Or am I looking at the wrong item?". So at that point you have a direction you wish to investigate and ask if others have similar experiences. As soon as you see pics from someone else you immediately declare yours are the same and therefore defective when you haven't even checked yet!!! That doesn't stop you from getting the nails out and hammering people to the cross though.

You very well may have a bushing problem but until you spend some time taking the things apart you can't be certain.

 

you're still trying to defend your position as innocent? however, you have admitted to not knowing the condition of several other major suspension components on your car, and have continued to bad mouth people based on what I would call a grudge

 

Sure I'm contributing. This thread had reached a point where nothing beneficial was being said, and no more knowledge about your problem could be gleaned without you actually *investigating* the problem. So I suggested that you actually (*gasp!*) examine your suspension and find out the problem. The fact that I don't own these bushings (which, although correct, was an assumption on your part) doesn't mean I can't think logically and make a suggestion to troubleshoot your problem.

 

So did any of you have to replace the sway bar links?

 

Sure...over the years I've learned that clunking can come from a variety of different areas. If they are indeed the cause, check out the heim joint ones from Mazdatrix, they work great and they're cheaper too...

http://www.mazdatrix.com/h93-95b.htm

 

im confused...

if you have no hard evidence that the bushings are bad, and refuse to disassemble the suspenion and find some proof, then whats the point of continuing this thread? We as a community can only hypothesize so much until you have to start tearing into your car and eliminating possible causes of the problem. The ****-slinging doesn't help solve the problem either, and to be honest it hurts your reputation because youre throwin **** at some of the most respected guys on the forum, no matter if they come off as smart-asses or not. My advice is to end the ****-storm (wether you think u started it or not), start checking all the stuff mentioned in this thread, and re-start the trouble-shooting process.

 

I haven't had to replace mine, and have about 115k on them. Here is what I would do:

Re-torque everything, check swaybar linkage, mounts, and bushings for damage, and drive it again. If still having problems...look at the bushings. Jack the car up and take a look. Can you see anything wrong with them? Any play at the pins? If not...proceed to remove the upper and lower control arms and inspect the bushings (you don't have to remove the bushings from the arms...just look at them!). As DamonB stated, mark for your alignment so you can be fairly accurate putting it back together.

I have seen damaged swaybar mounts that did cause clunking sounds.

Untill then, there will be nothing a value added to this thread. In fact, I would even venture to say it should be closed and have you start a new thread once you have some concrete news to report.

I would like to see a diagnosis and solution (bushings or not!) to your problem. I have these bushings and want to know if there are pitfalls to be expected. If mine were to fail in some manner due to a engineering oversight (or even because I installed them incorrectly), I would replace them with OEM the next time. Until then, I draw no conclusions there is an issue with them that Jim hadn't conveyed to me (such as maintenance req., extra noises, etc.).

 

ditto, which is why i hope some kind of conclusion comes from all this

 

Thread edited again. If anybody has any "bad" first hand experiences with their bushings let's hear about it. I've been more than nice in not issuing any warnings in this thread and merely edited the posts. The freebies have been used up. Let's deal with facts.

 

You removed all the posts where I rebutted your bully pulpit preaching and finger wagging.

What's matter, skin isn't thick enough to handle my replies?

Where's the moderation in your action?

Hell, I expected a little more impartiality than what you've shown me.

If you want to remove the mudslinging posts, remove yours also to show us you're a true moderator instead of a *****.



This forum isn't designed to be a bully pulpit for a moderator to selectively delete what he doesn't like and keep things that he likes, especially his own posts.

You're probably not man enough to remove your posts anyway. I don't expect it out of you but you never know about people.

 

Why? Because it was irrelevant to the topic. STFU already; you whine like a dog. Surely you've spent lots of your time contributing to this thread. Why don't you spend your time instead pulling your bushings and finding out where the noise is coming from?

 

If I were not impartial I would have locked this thread and banned you just because I can. I have edited it several times in the attempt to keep your thread open but you do not wish to keep it that way I guess. It was your choice all along and still is.

I implore you to PM any other Mod and Admin and ask them to read this thread; ask them if you have been mistreated. Moderators can still read the posts I have deleted from yourself, 93BlackFD and myself. The deleted posts are invisible to "normal" users. The only posts I deleted were the ones I felt were outright argumentative and didn't serve any purpose.

You have no reason to complain. You have not been formally warned for any of your personal comments towards any other members and your thread was not closed. You've had plenty of leeway.