James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Hi everyone,

Happy Holidays!

I've been going through my 93 R1's (65k miles) suspension for the last couple of months and have replaced the pillow ***** as well as the front upper and lower control arms.

I'm now down to a problem that has been with the car since I've owned it. When making a wide turn on a relatively uneven road (left turns are usually wide) I have to constantly correct my steering to hold the direction that I want. That is, make small left, right, left, right corrections.

The pillow ***** knocked out the clunk in the rear, the control arms knocked out a clicking in the front and now I'm left with this issue. Oh, the car has new tires and I've checked that the pressure is proper ... 32psi all around when cold. I don't think that my alignment is off as it was just done and the car has always done this. I should also mention that I checked the steering rack bolts. They are all torqued to specks.

I started inspecting all of the steering components with the car on ramps and my wife moving the wheel back and forth. The tie rod ends seem to have no movement but there is a clunk where the rack and pinion meet.

One other bit of data. The boot on the drivers side inner tie rod was replaced by me some time ago. It looked like it was open to the road for quite a while. I'm assuming that this is the root cause of a worn steering rack.

I'm guessing that I need a new steering rack? Opinions? Is there anything else I should look at and try?

thank all!

James

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

I think you're on the right track. Did you check the connection on the driver's side over by the p/s plumbing?

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Yeah, with it open to the elements that's never good. A good used rack should be pretty inexpensive, get that so that base is covered.

Dale

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Thanks Guys ...

Has anyone used these re-builders:
http://www.rebuildingfactory.com
http://www.pacific-ex.com

They are both local enough that I could drive my rack to them.

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Well, it took me about 4 hours to pull the rack, including cleaning up and placing it in my truck.

I had to pull the radiator, disconnect the sway bar, pull the lower radiator mounts, disconnect an oil cooler line and undo the mounts for the pipe that connect the driver and passenger oil coolers.

I'm sure that I could do this in half of the time now that I know what need to be done.

Next up ... time to find a rebuild shop, used rack, etc. If anyone has suggestions for the LA area I'm all ears.

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

aww mann that means i prob need a new rack. both my boots have been getting worn completely out over the past 2 or 3 years. I dont have any turning problems but i have new inner and outer tie rods with boots to install this or next week. should i not because my rack could be going and i dont know it?

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

The boots are an easy install. If you don't have any problems, I would just install them. The one on the drivers side of mine was shot. I'm guessing that the battery leaked all over it as I had a lot of corrosion to clean off, wash, sand and paint ... all over that general area. Anyway, I'm guessing that my rack was treated to dirt, water and battery acid.

Here's the general how to:

- put the car on jack stands, set the parking break and remove the front tires / slip one under the car's left and then right side. You could skip the tire removal but I like to use them as last ditch safety catches.

- Undo the tie rod ends. Use a 12mm open end wrench to hold the rod while breaking the bolt loose with a 16 mm(?) wrench. I recommend counting the threads from bold to where they start on the tie rod. This will let you approximate the alignment that you have later.

- Use a wire cutters to clip the old boot retaining wire off, use a pliers to move the clip off of the tie rod.

- Pull the old boot off or use a razor to cut it if need be.

- If the grease under the torn boot is dirty, extend the rack fully, wipe off the grease, use a tooth brush and some carb cleaner to remove what remains, let it dry and then liberally replace the grease.

- Slip the boot on ... don't secure it. My aftermarket boot was so tight that I couldn't turn the tie rod when inserting it into the ball joint.

- Place the nut back on the tie rod and thread it into the ball joint. You put the small spring clip back on the tie rod, right?

- Don't cross thread it like I did. You'll end up having to buy a tap and die to chase the threads.

- Play around a bit so that the same number of tie rod threads remain after tightening the nut against the ball joint.

- Place the spring clip over the small end of the boot and then tighten the wire or nylon tie over the large end of the boot.

- Repeat on the other side.

- Bring a small vice grips to the alignment shop. Let the person aligning the car know that clamping the small spring clip open might be necessary as the boots are new.

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

New tie rods?

Why not just replace the boots?

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

wanted to replace them all, my cars used to be a dd all the time, rain or shine, and i know it is probably a mess. but not only that i figured to change the 18 year old car inner and outer. plus i remember one time when i brought it to a shop he said something about the tie rods are going bad.

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Well, I just picked my rack up from Pacific Exchange.

There's nothing wrong with it. Their guy that rebuilds racks all day long says that the particular ones that our FDs use have a small clunk in them. It's perfectly normal. They went so far as to hook my rack up to a machine and test it out. Per this test, there is no excessive play.

The shop was kind enough to hook me up with a couple of o-rings for the hose that connects the rack to the power steering pump. I should be able to re-install it tomorrow.

So, what to do now?

A couple of other thoughts.

1) I brought it up to about 90 MPH on the freeway the day before I dissembled it. The steering wheel has a bit of a shake to it. It's very high frequency and I'm guessing caused by the same issue that led me to remove the rack in the first place.

2) The car has new coil overs on it. It's probably 1" higher than stock by the previous owner's choice.

I could pan the $200 to have the rack rebuilt, but why? Does anyone have their splash pan removed? Would you crawl under and confirm that the clunk is normal? That is if you turn the wheel back and forth rapidly. If it isn't maybe I need to find a new rebuild shop.

I'll definitely pull out a crow bar and check the tie rod ends again. Maybe I missed something.

I could have the car aligned by another shop.

I could lower the car to stock height. What is this? Say from the ground to the top of the wheel well? Hmm ... I need to read up on how these coil overs work. Time to start with the factory manual.

Or ... is there something else that I should be looking at?

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Rich, I assume that you mean to check the u-joints and connections that hook the steering wheel to the rack? Just checking to be sure that I'm not overlooking something obvious.

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

This is definitely another option. Just replace it and see what happens. I suppose that if this doesn't remedy the problem I could just sell the one that I replace and roughly break even.

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/loss-stability-above-100kmh-60mph-942079/

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/how-sensitive-steering-crown-road-162420/

These two threads help out a lot.

I'm thinking that I should:

1) Re-install the rack.
2) Set the tire pressure to Howard's specks.
3) Check the height. If it's really that far off stock, bring it back to stock.
4) Have Tri-Point align the car.

My thinking is that this will eliminate a lot of possibilities and set a baseline to work from. After this it's not alignment, height or pressure ... something is loose.

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

how are your steering rack bushings? not sure if it can cause it, but its just a thought

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

The rack is back together. Funny, the power steering fluid was the only fluid in this car that I hadn't changed. Now I can safely say that I've changed every fluid in the car.

I had plenty of time to look at the bushings. They are in great shape.

I'll eyeball the underside for leaks tomorrow and then put the splash pan back on.

I'm going to take another long and slow look at my suspension before doing anything else. Thanks to AdamC for the suggestion to check for improper coil over installation and double checking the last owner's installation. Well that and listening to my frustration.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

yup, you've got it

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Hey all ... small update.

I've been going over things and discovered that some of the nuts that hold the struts to the car are loose. The three that hold the strut on top were surprisingly loose on the rear passenger side. I had to take a ratchet to them followed by the torque wrench. The front drivers side was a little loose.

I also checked the large nuts that secure the height and spring compression on the coil overs. These are all tight.

I couldn't put any speed on tonight as traffic was heavy but some of the suspension noise in the car is definitely gone. I'm looking forward to a drive tomorrow, with less traffic.

Right now I'm off to the suspension section to figure out how to adjust coil over height. I have 26.5" (pavement to the wheel well) on both front sides and then 27" drivers rear but ... 27.5" passenger rear. Hmmmmm ...

FD3S2005

iTrader: (11)

yea, if something is loose it will make noise like its something major.. after i did all of my rear bushings i guess my aftermarket trailing arms adjustment bolt got loose, i was hearing such a loud clunk in the rear that i thought i got some bad pillowball bushings i just put in.. tighten that back up and now i have a squeek/clunk free car

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

for anyone reading this with a similar issue ... here's what fixed it for me:

https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...links-1019420/

JBF

iTrader: (13)

While I was reading this thread, I was going to suggest toe-links. lol.

At least it's fixed!

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

OK, so it's not fixed. There were three distinct problems with the car and more precisely, two of three are fixed. Here's the scoop:

1) vibrations at high speed - fixed - tires needed to be re-balanced after 1000 miles.
2) wide turn (left) instability (see first post) - fixed - new toe link bushings
3) following every payment irregularity above about 35mph - still happening

So, I'm making progress but am not satisfied with my suspension yet. Driving on the freeway can be exhausting. If a particular lane has a cut, height difference, etc. driving might consist of constant corrections to keep the car in its lane. The car feels like it's teetering on the edge of going strait.

Bottom line, I'm going after the steering rack next ... enough second guessing this, i'm going to replace it. Does anyone have an idea on a source for this? I'm discovering that all of the usual re-builders do not have stock and would like to rebuild mine. I would prefer to install a different rack. I want to see if the problem follows the rack once it's swapped.

I've placed a WTB post. Does anyone have any other idea for sourcing a used / rebuild rack?

thanks!

James

James Paventi

iTrader: (34)

Hi All,

So I seem to put effort into this problem about once a year during the holidays. <grin> Well, it helps that I couldn't easily find a replacement rack for a reasonable cost.

I believe that I've fixed my last problem, tramlining. This is number 3 in the above post.

What was it? Outer tie rods! Here's the eBay search. (link)

Less than $20 shipped! I picked up the least expensive stock replacement; not the drifting, lowering, racing, etc. ones. They look identical tot he stock part except that they have a zerk (for a grease gun) fitting.

I spent about an hour driving around over known problem areas on the freeway, city streets and more.

It's interesting that I could not see any moment or play in the old tie rod ends when they were on the car. When they were off the car one thing was very noticeable however. The tip of my little finger could move then with minimal effort. The new ones required a vice, gloves and an entire hand. Any suspension experts care to chime in? I just did a quick skim through the FSM and didn't find any testing procedures.

Happy New Year all!

James