My Crooked Willow Racing IC install [pics]
05-31-02, 09:11 AM
#26
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Nice car crispy.. Got your bling bling goin...LOL. That has got to be one of the nicest bays i have seen on anyones car. You like to pay attention to detail, but dang 6 days on the IC thats a long time.. Ohh well. The finished product surely made it worth it. It would for me if it looked that nice.
06-01-02, 12:49 AM
#27
NA Powah, Every Hour!
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Yo,
I want dibs when you sell!!! *grin* Always good to see someone as AR as me. Probably the cleanest FD engine bay I've ever seen. My only concern would be your foglight blocking incoming air to the vent. With all the work, it would be a shame to interfere with the airflow, especially with the relatively small opening. Any thoughts on getting rid of the fogs?
Nice job and thanks for taking the time to write it up and take pics!
KS
1989 GTUs "Waxing your engine bay is not a crime!"
I want dibs when you sell!!! *grin* Always good to see someone as AR as me. Probably the cleanest FD engine bay I've ever seen. My only concern would be your foglight blocking incoming air to the vent. With all the work, it would be a shame to interfere with the airflow, especially with the relatively small opening. Any thoughts on getting rid of the fogs?
Nice job and thanks for taking the time to write it up and take pics!
KS
1989 GTUs "Waxing your engine bay is not a crime!"
06-01-02, 01:20 PM
#28
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Bootiful.....i wish i had the gumption to do it right in the first place. I kinda hacked mine to bits (I kept the 3 support brackets + i placed the relay partially into the duct). Perhaps I can order another duct from Duane and try to replicate your incredible work.
Great job!!
Great job!!
06-03-02, 06:55 AM
#29
RarestRX,
Tanks for the kudo's
As for the fog lights....yup, as noted somehwere in my writeup, they will *definitely* be removed when doing time at the track! As for street use, nah, good enough for me...I'm not a hotdog street racer plus the stock headlights suck.
Regards,
Crispy
Tanks for the kudo's
As for the fog lights....yup, as noted somehwere in my writeup, they will *definitely* be removed when doing time at the track! As for street use, nah, good enough for me...I'm not a hotdog street racer plus the stock headlights suck.
Regards,
Crispy
06-03-02, 08:55 AM
#33
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What are the dimentions on that core? Core only. Do you know off the top of your head?
Also if you have a picture of the front of your car zoomed out Could you email it to me?
Gdenne@framatech.com
I'd like to put the size of your diffuser inlet into perspective.
Thanks
Also if you have a picture of the front of your car zoomed out Could you email it to me?
Gdenne@framatech.com
I'd like to put the size of your diffuser inlet into perspective.
Thanks
06-03-02, 09:40 AM
#34
Per CWR website: Diagonal-mount intercooler 13" x 17" x 3.5"
I'm not sure if this refers to the core size though.
But I can do better. I'll phsyically make both measurements (IC core and IC duct inlet size) for you during my lunch break. Howzat?
Crispy
I'm not sure if this refers to the core size though.
But I can do better. I'll phsyically make both measurements (IC core and IC duct inlet size) for you during my lunch break. Howzat?
Crispy
06-03-02, 12:51 PM
#38
Stephen,
Air temps, for obvious reasons, are very dependant on ambient temps. I've seen everything from 53C sitting in traffic to sub 25C cruising on
the interstate. I haven't really done a check of a specific intake air temps after a single boost run yet. The true test will of course come at the track where last year I was seeing temps in excess of 95C. I will be getting the datalogging software for the PFC soon so with that in hand I'll be better able to see exaclty what is going on...temperature wise WRT boost and throttle application. I can say though that side by side driving with two different friends both with full PFS IC/ intake equipped cars, my intake air temps were anywhere from 3 to 10C lower than thier otherwise identically equipped cars.
dclin,
Ordered my IC kit months ago...around news years. I "worked with" CWR to get a duct. Otherwise working with Duane was a slow but satisfactory.
John,
Why yes I did
Laterz,
Crispy
Air temps, for obvious reasons, are very dependant on ambient temps. I've seen everything from 53C sitting in traffic to sub 25C cruising on
the interstate. I haven't really done a check of a specific intake air temps after a single boost run yet. The true test will of course come at the track where last year I was seeing temps in excess of 95C. I will be getting the datalogging software for the PFC soon so with that in hand I'll be better able to see exaclty what is going on...temperature wise WRT boost and throttle application. I can say though that side by side driving with two different friends both with full PFS IC/ intake equipped cars, my intake air temps were anywhere from 3 to 10C lower than thier otherwise identically equipped cars.
dclin,
Ordered my IC kit months ago...around news years. I "worked with" CWR to get a duct. Otherwise working with Duane was a slow but satisfactory.
John,
Why yes I did
Laterz,
Crispy
Last edited by CrispyRX7; 06-03-02 at 01:05 PM.
06-03-02, 01:00 PM
#39
dear baby jesus...
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HOLY ****!
WOW! I commend you on your attention to detail. I wish I had the patience (and skill!!!) to do that kind of work. Glad to see someone doing it the right way, the first time.
Seriously, if you ever decide to sell your car...please give me a heads up!
WOW! I commend you on your attention to detail. I wish I had the patience (and skill!!!) to do that kind of work. Glad to see someone doing it the right way, the first time.
Seriously, if you ever decide to sell your car...please give me a heads up!
06-03-02, 01:03 PM
#40
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Well hey a 2 year turn around time isnt bad, especially since you paid for it in advance lol
I must say that kit is ALOT of install work!!!! I think I'd be tempted to pay a couple hundred more and get the M2 large.
It looks good though and sounds like its doing its job, I imagine it sucked with no air duct...prob worse than stock IC
STEPHEN
I must say that kit is ALOT of install work!!!! I think I'd be tempted to pay a couple hundred more and get the M2 large.
It looks good though and sounds like its doing its job, I imagine it sucked with no air duct...prob worse than stock IC
STEPHEN
06-03-02, 01:04 PM
#41
Hey, where did my $$$ go?
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Originally posted by SPOautos
Well hey a year turn around time isnt bad, especially since you pay for them in advance lol I cant believe some people still dont have ducts
I must say that kit is ALOT of install work!!!! I think I'd be tempted to pay a couple hundred more and get the M2 large.
It looks good though and sounds like its doing its job, I imagine it sucked with no air duct...prob worse than stock IC
STEPHEN
Well hey a year turn around time isnt bad, especially since you pay for them in advance lol I cant believe some people still dont have ducts
I must say that kit is ALOT of install work!!!! I think I'd be tempted to pay a couple hundred more and get the M2 large.
It looks good though and sounds like its doing its job, I imagine it sucked with no air duct...prob worse than stock IC
STEPHEN
06-03-02, 02:56 PM
#42
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I've had mine on the track (the pics on the CWC site are of my car BEFORE I had a duct). With the duct, I typically see 30's to mid 50's (celcius). I'm located in SW Florida however, where it's not uncommon for temps to be just short of the temp in hell. Really. On the track, I was getting 40-60 degree range depending on the time of day (very hot in the afternoon) but it would stay consistent and would not fluctuate much once the car got up to speed and the ducting allowed for the IC to cool off. Typically, when cruising around town at 3pm with temps in the low 90's, I'll see 50-60 degree range depending on how often I have to stop. The "open" stretches quickly drop the temps down into the low 50 degree range on average. Anything below 90 degrees F, and the IAT's are in the 40's, 30's etc...
I did not find fitment as difficult, but I did hack the ducting up more than it needed to be. I did not have to remove the radiator to fit the duct in (I use a fluidyne). I did shorten the IC pipes a bit, which 20/20 hindsight, I probably should not have done. I had the PEP package (think touring model in 95) which had the fogs. I ended up cutting one of the three vertical supports but I did not trim the frp reinforcement, which I should have. I now have a FEED Type II being installed (went to the shop today!) which will allow the removal of the frp bumper reinforcement. I may re-engineer things a bit since I will have TONS of room. As is, I created a metal scoop which fits into the IC Duct and extends out to the edge of the nose. Seems to help. I didn't quantify the data, but I did notice it makes it more efficient at gathering air based on the more rapid decrease in IAT's once moving. With the reinforcement gone, it's feasible one could use the entire nose of the duct without having to cut it off (as I think Duane wanted). It just wasn't at the perfect angle in my car unfortunately, which is why I cut a large portion of it off.
On a side note, this core is 2 rows larger than the old M2 large so don't compare performance. I've measured pressure drop across the core, WOT in third gear, @ .9psi loss using an observer and a GReddy dual pressure gauge. I took measurements from just after the y-pipe on one side and at the GReddy elbow on the other. So that includes ALL of the piping as well. Strangely, I saw a higher pressure drop on the dyno. Go figure. The IC itself produced 3 more hp peak, and more lower, than a brand new, M2 medium IC, which was bone-cold. With that said, the stock IC probably would have been within 5hp. Anyone who says an IC is worth 40hp on the dyno is full of bunk. It's hp comes when the car is rolling. Then again, I'm preaching to the choir on that one, right? :-)
Michel
I did not find fitment as difficult, but I did hack the ducting up more than it needed to be. I did not have to remove the radiator to fit the duct in (I use a fluidyne). I did shorten the IC pipes a bit, which 20/20 hindsight, I probably should not have done. I had the PEP package (think touring model in 95) which had the fogs. I ended up cutting one of the three vertical supports but I did not trim the frp reinforcement, which I should have. I now have a FEED Type II being installed (went to the shop today!) which will allow the removal of the frp bumper reinforcement. I may re-engineer things a bit since I will have TONS of room. As is, I created a metal scoop which fits into the IC Duct and extends out to the edge of the nose. Seems to help. I didn't quantify the data, but I did notice it makes it more efficient at gathering air based on the more rapid decrease in IAT's once moving. With the reinforcement gone, it's feasible one could use the entire nose of the duct without having to cut it off (as I think Duane wanted). It just wasn't at the perfect angle in my car unfortunately, which is why I cut a large portion of it off.
On a side note, this core is 2 rows larger than the old M2 large so don't compare performance. I've measured pressure drop across the core, WOT in third gear, @ .9psi loss using an observer and a GReddy dual pressure gauge. I took measurements from just after the y-pipe on one side and at the GReddy elbow on the other. So that includes ALL of the piping as well. Strangely, I saw a higher pressure drop on the dyno. Go figure. The IC itself produced 3 more hp peak, and more lower, than a brand new, M2 medium IC, which was bone-cold. With that said, the stock IC probably would have been within 5hp. Anyone who says an IC is worth 40hp on the dyno is full of bunk. It's hp comes when the car is rolling. Then again, I'm preaching to the choir on that one, right? :-)
Michel
06-03-02, 03:07 PM
#43
Michel,
Excellent data. I can't wait to correlate with what I find. Much of what you said jives with my installation. Easy to make it "sorta" fit but tough to make it fit the way I wanted it to and without compromises, ie trimming bumper support, cutting of the ducting, trimming the nose off the duct, etc and FWIW yes I too cut the third upright in the nose also.
And thanks for the info on the IC performance. As for me I wasn't looking for more power per sae but for better reliability as I wanted to bring engine temps way down. Hopefully the larger IC will help.
One question though, you mention some track time, what boost pressure were you using when this data was taken?
Regards,
Crispy
Excellent data. I can't wait to correlate with what I find. Much of what you said jives with my installation. Easy to make it "sorta" fit but tough to make it fit the way I wanted it to and without compromises, ie trimming bumper support, cutting of the ducting, trimming the nose off the duct, etc and FWIW yes I too cut the third upright in the nose also.
And thanks for the info on the IC performance. As for me I wasn't looking for more power per sae but for better reliability as I wanted to bring engine temps way down. Hopefully the larger IC will help.
One question though, you mention some track time, what boost pressure were you using when this data was taken?
Regards,
Crispy
06-04-02, 01:08 PM
#47
Hehe, I can't even buy a duct from Duane. Emailed him saying I'd buy one, but never heard back. How the heck did you get yours? I'm seeing 57C AT NIGHT, and therefore have not been driving it. A duct sure would be nice....
Last edited by dclin; 06-04-02 at 01:11 PM.
06-04-02, 02:45 PM
#48
Daniel,
How to get a duct from Duane? Dunno. Maybe I just have a way with words As for your 57C at night...yup no duct and IC's are essentially useless. It's an air to air heat exchanger after all. Remove one of the "air"s and it no longer acts as a heat exchanger. But simply becomes a heat sink getting hotter and hotter the longer you run your car. The airflow to and through an unducted SMIC is negligable without a duct. I refused to buy Duanes kit until he agreed to supply me a duct.
Regards,
Crispy
How to get a duct from Duane? Dunno. Maybe I just have a way with words
As for your 57C at night...yup no duct and IC's are essentially useless. It's an air to air heat exchanger after all. Remove one of the "air"s and it no longer acts as a heat exchanger. But simply becomes a heat sink getting hotter and hotter the longer you run your car. The airflow to and through an unducted SMIC is negligable without a duct. I refused to buy Duanes kit until he agreed to supply me a duct.Regards,
Crispy
06-04-02, 06:23 PM
#49
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This conversation on the duct is interesting. Crispy, I would appreciate any tips you might have regarding acquisition of the CWR duct. I ordered my Kit 20 MONTHS ago and Duane has terminated all forms of communication with me. I know I am not alone regarding this matter. Do you have updated contact info for Duane? You can PM me if this should be taken off line. Sorry about the off topic but this duct issue is ridiculous. Like you mentioned the IC is useless without the duct. I have had to construct my own ugly-*** duct in the interim.
BTW, great website and car.
thx
Ramon
BTW, great website and car.
thx
Ramon
06-04-02, 06:44 PM
#50
Originally posted by CrispyRX7
Daniel,
How to get a duct from Duane? Dunno. Maybe I just have a way with words As for your 57C at night...yup no duct and IC's are essentially useless. It's an air to air heat exchanger after all. Remove one of the "air"s and it no longer acts as a heat exchanger. But simply becomes a heat sink getting hotter and hotter the longer you run your car. The airflow to and through an unducted SMIC is negligable without a duct. I refused to buy Duanes kit until he agreed to supply me a duct.
Regards,
Crispy
Daniel,
How to get a duct from Duane? Dunno. Maybe I just have a way with words
As for your 57C at night...yup no duct and IC's are essentially useless. It's an air to air heat exchanger after all. Remove one of the "air"s and it no longer acts as a heat exchanger. But simply becomes a heat sink getting hotter and hotter the longer you run your car. The airflow to and through an unducted SMIC is negligable without a duct. I refused to buy Duanes kit until he agreed to supply me a duct.Regards,
Crispy
The UIM/air temp sensor would heat soak within 5 minutes. I took it out onto the freeway and up to speed, but the most i could get it down to was 54C (mid 70s F outside temps). The duct is essential (well, duh! )Luckily though, somebody is working on replacement ducts, and is only a couple weeks away from finishing. They are also finishing a complete IC kit, essentially identical to the CW IC setup.
rceron: Duane is there, probably just selective with who he wants to repond to. My e-mail a few days ago was simply "Can I buy a duct?" With which he replied the next day " Which duct?" I replied the IC duct, and have not heard from him since. I forgot he has the 99 oil cooler ducts too. Oh well, I've given up.