JConn2299

I see the never ending oil debate continues, and this thread has gone on to three pages, so I might as well throw this in. One of the forum members wrote this interesting post back on April 19th. I thought it worth repeating. Note paragraph four on using synthetic oil.

"intersting conversation with mazda tech guy"

"I attended the MN Miata club tech session earier in the week, and the head tech guy for the great lakes region was there, sorta the key note speaker. this guy REALLY knew his stuff. he started working with Mazda in 1973, and has worked on RX7s and Miatas since they first arrived here. he has supported both cars in just about every form of racing possible - this guy was good. no one from the Miata club was able to stump him in the hour long open Q&A, and some of the questions asked where mighty abscure.

anyway, after he was done speaking I got a chance to ask him some very direct questions about the RX7, and more specifically the FD. while much of this information will not be new to many of you, it was nice to have someone who works for the company back up what I thought I already knew.

first: there is no reason that the 13b cannot last a very long time - it is an excellent engine. properly maintained the 13B will last as long as the average engine, no problem.

second: rotary engines do not like synthetic motor oils. this is because the engine is designed to burn oil, and as synthetic burns at a higher temp, it does not burn and actually builds up. a high quality turbo rated conventional motor oil is the way to go. this is only for street cars. if you are racing your car, stick with synthetic, as it lubricates much better.

third: the most important mod on the RX7 is the DP. again this is not new info, but it is nice to have the Mazda rep back up this info. for those of you that care, going to a DP will have very, very little of an environmental impact. the cat that is there now works for about the first 90 seconds, and then does almost nothing. that and it has a tendency to get clogged, mostly because of bad design.

fourth: keeping the engine clean is very important, much more so then the average car. this is the biggest factor to the percieved short life span of the rotary engine. doing things that keep the engine cool are very, very important. vented hoods, downpipes, cold air intake - and most important getting all the dirt & grime out of your engine bay.

again, I know not much of this is shocking new info, but I thought the conversation was worth writing about."

Mr. Stock

I know I am not the only one on the forum who is (thinking about) running synthetic oil in the engine block and burning 2 stroke dyno juice in the combustion chambers.

I am sure those that have done away with the MOP(read stand-alone ECU) are premixing dyno oil in the gas tank and benefittting from the advantage of superior lubrication offered by running synthetic oil in the engine block.

Since I think there are downsides to premixing such as the inconvenience of mixing oil in the gas tank at fill up, the possibility of fouling fuel injectors, etc, I am going to use a separate oil source for my MOP by using this device

Ed

Spain

Excuse me, what is "DP"

very I am not familiarized with the acronyms that use in the USA

Regards from Spain

RICE RACING

100% correct !

I am a rotary engine builder, have been doing it for over 10 years and have alot of experience with highly stressed turbo rotaries, many of my experiences are from situations where engines see extreme operating conditions over long periods of time, some have been as a result of system failure (cooling oil or water) and have subjected engines to massive stresses.

The answer is clear, nothing compares to a good synthetic oil...period. The ONLY reason mazda suggested against it was because "some" brands did not pass the grade when they were making their recomendation in regard to the 3rd gen

go look in the 2 stroke world, and see what some of the best combustible oils are there, you will find some of them are synthetic based...Castrol A747 is a oil used in many GP 2 strokes, it is synthetic...TTS high performance racing two stroke "emissions friendly" it is synthetic, go try a castor oil and see how many deposits you end up with !!!!! Infact go pull down ANY older rotary running on mineral oils, they are "caked" full of deposits from mineral oils.

My recomendation is from pulling down many many engines and I will never use inferior mineral based oils no matter how often you want to change it, facts are they cannot compare to a synthetic oil in operating viscosity, from cold to hot you are behind the 8 ball every time you turn the key in your rotary if you run a minearl oil- I know I repair them !

If you are in it for the long haul then use the best oil available, if you are just along for the ride, put any **** in it if you wish...all the better for people like me (keeps me in buisiness)

fdracer

Mr. Stock

"My" device only changes the source of the oil from the oil pan to a separate oil source. It uses the same MOP technology that has been used by Mazda for 3 generations of RX7's.

You are saying that you have scientific evidence that shows that oil mixed into the gas tank works better than oil that is dirctly injected by the MOP system in lubricating the seals of a rotary enigne?

If you can show me that, I would put up with the mixing of oil in the gas tank.

JONSKI

DP = Down Pipe

This replaces the pre-catalytic converter. This is an important mod, just like getting a boost gauge.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

To expound upon my benefactor's post (how much is rent in the attic, btw? ):

The DP (dowpipe) gives a decent amount of horsepower and is a straight pipe which replaces the pre-cat. It is most valuable b/c it helps keep the motor cooler--the precat has been known to clog and lead to blown motors. It is a performance mod, whereas a boost gauge is more of an "informational" mod. I have an N-tech downpipe which I'm very happy with.

Spain

Ok, thanks guys.
I have been watching down pipes, is correct one of 3 inches? Also I have mounted a AST of aluminum, and have mixed anti freezing (20%) with water. I have acquired a Air Inlet Duct and a Front Air Intake Cover so that between more air Than it is possible more to be made to go down the temperature of the motor?

FD3SR2

NO, because its not a conventional engine. Rotary engine burn some oil even when the engine is brand new. But burning synthentic is REALLY bad! Its your car.

waynespeed

Have you tried Mobil 1 before or Redline?
I've always used Mobil 1, In all my rotary engines. Some synthetics maybe bad to burn, but it's unfair to group them all and say it's "REALLY bad".

jr

Don't get too excited over his comments, this is coming from a guy who says there are non-turbo FD's. Hey Mr. 8 posts, listen and learn for a while before dispensing "advice."

I'm still running Castrol 10w30 and changing it every 2K miles or less, but have been contemplating going to a synthetic now for a while. I have to say that RICE RACING's endorsement might put me over the edge. What's a good viscosity to run? I've heard that synthetics are generally "thinner" than an equivalent dino viscosity and tend to leak more, any truth to that? 20w50 seems popular, but it seems like a big jump from Mazda's recommended 10w30 or 5w30.

Mr. Stock

Gordon,
You didn't mention anything about your oil injection(MOP). What oil are you using for oil injection? Are you using synthetic for that too?

Mr. Stock

On second thought, Gordon has a second gen MOP modified onto the engine. So he must be using Redline to burn in the combustion chamber as well. Am I right?

Ed

Mr. Stock

Gordon,

So, are you running Redline in the engine block and Quaker State in the combustion chamber?

If so, do you have a separate reservoir for the Quaker State? I am assuming that Quaker State Synthetic IV is a 2 stroke oil?

Ed

PS I think you voided your warranty when you "exchanged" your engine for Ed Taylor's.

JONSKI

I want a slick setup like Gordon. Is there anything online that shows some of the specifics of building such a setup?

-Jon

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

Nice passionate post GMonson, maybe you could tell us more about 2 stroke oil vs regular oil?

According to Mazdatrix faq, Mazda claimed synthetic did not burn properly and that is the reason they didn't recomend it.

Well not all dyno oil burns cleanly either! From the research i've done, Mobil 1, Red Line and Royal Purple do burn clean. Quaker State is the cleanest dyno oil.

If you track race your car, use synthetic. If your idea of racing is blowing past a Honda for 30 sec or 3 min then use dyno. If you can't afford synthetic, change the dyno oil every 2k mi. If you can afford synthetic you can change every 4k mi but you will still need to add aproximately 1 quart every 1k mi.

I've been changing dyno oil every 2k mi and adding 1qt of Red Line or Royal Purple in between. I prefer synthetic but I like to go to the dealer for oil changes and some won't do it and some will write a disclaimer on my receipt. I'm even more afraid of quicky lube places than the dealer and don't the oil filters use a washer? ...quicky lubes won't replace that.

Oh, from what I remember the multi viscocity (20/50) is more likely to break up than the strait wieght (race 50) and the farther the numbers are apart the worse (5/50 worse than 20/50). Sorry, I don't still have the link to that article. 5/50 would probably work good for winter people in the snow and strait 50 weight for summer.

I'm not sure if I helped any but i'm bored at work. Oh, how bout more info on the 2 stroke oil?