thirdgen

I have finally decided to go the route of replacing my blown engine with a Mazda remanufactured engine. From what I have heard these can remanufactured in several facilities. My dealer is getting it from some place in Florida, and I have also heard of a place in California. Any recommendations on facilities to avoid would be appreciated, so I can steer the dealer to the right location.

Thanks.

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

If you are on the west coast, go with MazdaTrix (CA) since the replace the rotors and seals. The mechanic is a master but he is allways backed up at least a month.

Pettit Racing (FL) or Peter Ferral Supercars (VA) on the east coast.

Most engine rebuilds us remanufactured parts and only replace what they have to. You want to pay extra for new rotors and seals. If you plan on going more than 350hp, you want racing apex seals.

If you can, replace rubber hoses with silicone ones and upgrade plastic Y-Pipe to metal Efini, replace radiator with Fluidyne. Dual iol coolers (crooked willow) if not R1/R2 and you're not in debt by this time...if it was overheating that blew it.

If it was too much boost that blew it, replace the computer with an Apexi.

Magnificent 7

There seems to be a lot of rumor, misinformation, second hand information, and just plain old fashioned bull **** being spread by people when it comes to replacement engines. Many people out there are full of information, unfortunately it's not 100% accurate and reliable information, so your best bet is to go find out first hand for yourself.

There was an excellent post by a guy who visited the Mazda Rotary Engine Remanufacturing Facility in Florida recently. I couldn't find that particular post but I did find one that corrobarates that story.

Posted by rxrotary2_7:

i talked to this guy in florida at mazdas depot where all the cores go and re-maneded eng. get shipped out because people say how bad a remaned is.

YOU WILL NOT GET A USED ROTOR HOUSING. they are sent out to japan to get lapped (re-surfaced) just as you lap a side housing. also their side housings are lapped. you basicaly are getting a new engine (not exactly, but pretty damn close)
the only thing i dont like about re-maned is they run them on propane to test them. then you dont know how long this motor has been sitting around since it was run on propane. you will have rust on your apex seals. the best thing to do when you get it. (this is an old 12a carbed trick) put some transmission fluid in the engine. use a spoon and put a spoonfull in each side, turn the motor w/ the flywheel, and do this for every combustion chamber. but do not over do it. also crank motor w/ no plugs when you install just to get the excess out. the car will smoke like a bitch for a minute.

i have been rebuilding my own motors for a while, and even if you use a housing that has peeling on it. it will still run strong. these motors i mostly use for drag racing and would never sell to someone, but they do run great. i seriously doubt mazda would give you a bad motor. it is their reputation at hand. besides,
buy a remaned, take it apart, and do a streetport yourself. this way you will have no question as to how the motor was put back together.



Genuine Mazda 13B-REW engines purchased through an authorized Mazda Dealership are remanufactured at a facility in Florida (I forget which city). It's my understanding that they were previously remanufactured at a facility in California, but that now the operation has moved, and all are built in Florida.

The remanufactured (not rebuilt -- technically there IS a difference) engines contain many new, and some used parts (including rotors, rotor housings, eccentric shafts, etc). All of the sealing aspects of the engine (apex and side seals, rubber lip seals, and gaskets) are all NEW. Think about it logically, seals don't cost enough to run the risk of all the failed enigines that would be returned if they used old seals. ALL of the parts that are reused are checked to confirm that they are within an acceptable tolerance range. This is the same thing that other "reputable" engine builders do when they remanufacture their engines. Hell, they probably even use the Mazda Specifications as a guide (but I can't say that for sure). There's nothing wrong with using a part that came out of an engine if the part's not damaged, and falls within tolerances.

The only real limitation you get with a Mazda Reman. Engine is that you can only get a "STOCK" engine. They don't offer street porting, 3mm apex seals, or any other aftermarket enhancements to increase the power output of the engine.

I don't have any problem with any aftermarket engine builders. I don't have any of their products to judge. I imagine that most put out a quality product as well. I imagine they too have their share of "bad" engines. And I suspect that they warranty them as well. If the truth were to be told, I believe that the majority of reman. engine failures (both Mazda and aftermarket) are probably due to abuse of improper installation.

I don't work for Mazda either. I just think it's unfair to label the Mazda Remans. as "poorly built". Especially by people who don't own one. I for one have a great deal of confidence in the Mazda Remans. I have one in my car. 2,000+ mi., so far, so good. If it fails I'll be here eating crow, but you can damn well bet I'll let you (and Mazda) know about it. Mazda is, after all, the company responsible for making the rotary engine what it is today. They have more familarity with it than probably anyone else, and a larger base of knowledge than probably anyone else. The guys at the remanufacturing facility have as much experience as anyone at building rotaries, that's what they do all day long. They have the proper equipment, training, and quality control procedures to produce a good quality engine.

Take that for what it's worth to you. If I ever get to spend any time in Florida, I will for sure go check that place out.

It's true that Mazdatrix is a great company when it comes to rotaries. But I've heard plenty of differing opinions about Peter Farrell (not Ferral) and Pettit even though I respect the impressive achievements they have made with their cars.

And FYI GoRacer, the original "Y" pipe is not plastic, it's aluminum. The Efini upgrade is an improvement in several ways:

a) It eliminates the rubber coupling (prone to heat induced failure) that connects the "Y" pipe to the crossover tube, and instead uses a bolted and flanged connection at that point.

b) The actual "Y" pipe of the Efini unit is a one-piece assembly. The original "Y" pipe is a two-piece jointed unit that uses an elastomeric (rubber) o-ring gasket for sealing the connection joint. Although I've never heard of one failing, elimination of this o-ring gasketed joint is an improvement.

c) The crossover tube of the Efini unit IS aluminum which is an improvement over the original plastic crossover tube. The original plastic crossover tube was manufactured with an integral plastic mounting bracket which could be damaged by heat or improper installation thus allowing the intake charge to bleed off pressure (or vacuum as the case may be) resulting in degraded engine performance.

As it turns out all of the aforementioned possible boost leaks could be avoided by installing the upgraded Efini "Y" pipe. I have considered purchasing one myself, but it only allows for Stock Mount type intercoolers (SMIC), and I want something along the lines of the M2 or CWC type intercooler. Of course the Efini unit could be modified to work with other types of intercoolers, but I haven't seen enough problems with the original "Y" pipes to justify the cost of the Efini unit.

Sorry for the long post. But that's what keeps the misinformation and misinterpretations to a minimum. Plenty of detailed, well documented, specifically worded information.

cash money

if you got one from the west coast i would suggest Pineapple Racing, they got a great reputation, its cheaper than mazdatrix, and you get a warranty.

thirdgen

Magnificient 7, thanks for that magnifico report and that helps me put my mind at ease that there is only one facility and not a slew of options for the dealers. I am primarily going with the dealer because just in case the engine went bad on me I want have to worry about finger pointing between the guy who built it and installed it. They are giving me a 12 month and unlimited mile warranty. Also, I am going to install Pettit SS downpipe and silicone vaccum hoses. After this I am hoping I will get more than the 75k miles I got with my first engine. Oh BTW, I was speaking with the Sales Manager at Pettit yesterday and he was most helpful in providing me some pointers on making sure the dealer does the work correctly.

Thanks again all for your input and HAPPY THANKSGIVING !!!!

RonKMiller

Magnificent 7:

It is my understanding that it is impossible to lap a rotor housing on a 93-95 13B since it is plated, if it is worn or damaged beyond specs the only option is to replace it with a new one. I am not that familiar with older versions but I believe they could be lapped, and I am sure it requires a VERY special machine (probably only in the Hiroshima factory) to do this. Correct me if I'm wrong! Side housings can easily be lapped, but requires very careful attention by the machine operator during the process.

I realize that you were only copying someone else's post - but - like you said let's get this info straight! AND, like I said, correct me if I'm wrong! I'm not trying to be contrary and a pain in the ***, just striving for the same accuracy you are.

The 13B is acutally a very easy engine to rebuild, and to rebuild correctly compared to practically every other car engine out there.
From my viewpoint it can handle modest increases in horsepower without sacrificing durability, and improving the flow via intake, porting and exhaust is the ONLY safe way to do it. Once anyone gets into high boost levels it is a grenade......

Black680hp7

The actual rebuild job isn't that difficult, you just need to pay close attention. The key is in the clearances. The stock seals will handle alot of power if tuned correctly. I have made over 600hp to the wheels on the stock seals, as long as you are tuned correctly and don't detonate they will live. If you do detonate it will not take much to break the stock seals.

Jason.

r_ed_line53

Checkpoint Engineering in California. Pm me if you're interested. I'll email you information on this company.

We offer 1 year/15,000 mile warranty with used housings, rotors, and apex seals.

We offer 2 year/24,000 mile warranty with brank new housings, rotors, and apex seals.

"You decide what YOU want done to your motor." 3mm apex seals? Only if you're needing 800+ hp. 2mm are proven to go 8 secs in the 1/4 mile. Again like Black680hp7 said, IT'S ALL IN THE TUNING. Your motor is just a bolt on part, that's the easy part. Anyways good luck and have fun.

see ya,

car 53

7 eleven

I'd like to toss on my two cents here. I have a friend that works at the Mazda reman plant in orange park FL(Next to jacksonville) What was said above about the plant in cali then moved to FL is true. The bad image these motors got came from that move, the workers at the old plant felt pissed on when they moved and produced motors that reflected this. Then a ramp up time to train new people produced a few less than ideal motors. However The motors that come out of there now are a great deal. The side housing are not simply lapped like all others, but recoated in japan then shipped back to the US. Almost all go out the door with new housings. The only parts they said was commonly reused were the rotors and e shaft. Just this last spring mazda set over 50 brand new crate motors to restock the core supplies, so there are 50 lucky bastards with brand new motors out there that don't even know it.

Alpine

can you share with us those pointers?

r_ed_line53

Can you be more specific as far as pricing is concerned? If what you're saying is true, I don't have to rebuild any motors, because nothing can beat brand new housings, rotors, and apex seals that alone costs around $1500.00!!!!! let me know..

see ya,

car 53

Astro

www.rotaryengine.com

7 eleven

it cost 2200 now for the reman you can find it a little bit cheaper but the price has gone up a little due to better QA (more new parts)

ronarndt

I have about 30K miles on a Mazda reman engine. So far- so good.

thirdgen

Alpine asked to share the pointers provided by Pettit:

1) Check to make the car is producing proper amount of boost. 4k rpm 10lb - 4.5k rpm 8lb - 5k rpm 10lb, this is in approx terms. Of course, to check this you would need a boost guage. Guys, this is important to have a guage, because if not the car could be creating 5lb of boost and one could feel that it is creating boost but could be not the proper amount.

2) Break in the engine by not stressing it till 1000 miles. This is too technical for me, but apparently there is a "pill" somewhere which when taken out will only create 5lb of boost. Therefore, the recommendation I have is - test to make sure the car is generating proper amount of boost and then perform this "removal of pill" procedure till 1000 miles. He is actually going to fax me the procedure. Anyone interested send me a PM.

3) Inspect the tubos housing for any apex seal pieces blown in there. Also, make sure the turbine is rotating freely and there is no damage to the fins. The hot side turbo is the one which could see the most damage. In my case the hot side turbos is pitch black but moving freely, the other turbo is quite clean. Probably because my driving style is too tame for these turbos. Anyway, if anyone reading this knows that this is abnormal please post a response, i.e., that the hot side turbo is black kind of like it is burnt.

4) For all this the least I could do was to buy the downpipe. Yes, I went with a Pettit SS downpipe. He really wanted me to buy a boost guage, but it will have to wait till after I recover from the cost of buying a reman and a downpipe.

5) He did not say this but I am going to get a compression test done before I roll out of the shop. This way I get a base line compression reading and a boost reading. No point driving it if for some reason the engine is bad... oh God ! I really hope that is not the case.

6) Of course, I hope I am one of the lucky bastards that got one of the 50 brand new engines. I have never seen a reman before, but I saw mine, and boy it looks like brand spanking new. I am sure they all look the same. Anyway, to find out if this is brand new ?

7) I paid $1950 for mine plus gasket kit. Malloy Mazda of PA quoted me this price also, but with them you have to deal with freight also. I am getting my work done at Tom Wood Mazda in Indianapolis, Indiana. They don't work on FDs for a living, but the mechanic there has worked on my 2nd Gen GTU and I like his work.

Later.

whitekingsnake

I'm one lucky bastard who knows it.

thirdgen

whitekingsnake, why do you think you have a new engine ? Appreciate if you can update the group on the indicators.

BLKTOPTRVL

Reading this post reminds me of a question I had long ago but found no answer. When Mazda remans an engine, do they upgrade the specs or are they built to the original specs for the year originally manufactured. It would be nice if the new technology found its way into these engines.

Swamp RX-7

My mazda reman has close to 13k miles on it and it runs flawlessly. When the motor arrived at my mechanics shop we were amazed to see this:
1. New Water Pump
2. New flywheel

From the time the new motor was fired up to today, the motor has given me zero problems. The vaccume is always between 18 to 20 inches at idle. The thing is, if you replace your motor, you must also consider the various parts attached to the motor that could cause it's early death. A new radiator, fuel injectors, clutch, sparkplug wires and downpipe W/high-flow cat is the way to go if you want a long and happy rotary experience. Also, ALL coolant hoses need to be replaced, and the turbos should get a good look-over. Anyhow, if you want a STOCK motor that is of the best quality, I would say to go with the Mazda Reman.

san7

7 eleven,
I had a reman put in in august, it blew up in 3000 miles. It went back in under warrantee (all stock, of course!) and at that time I became friends with the mechanic. When the reman engine arrived he called me to come down and see it. When I got there he showed me the in's and out's of the new engine, and was determined that it was brand new and not a reman. He said he has done over 50 reman installs for mazda and mine was the cleanest engine he had seen. I guess I am one of the lucky ones!!

GoRacer

iTrader: (2)

The original Mazda engine warranty = 5yrs.
Mazda remanufactured warranty = 1yrs
...does that sound equivilant?

Pinapple Racing has a 5 year warranty!

I have a Mazda remanufactured engine. I am not putting them down like M7 thinks. If you just want your car running and/or back to stock it's fine.

Why not take advantage of the situation and turn it in to a possitive instead of a negative. Have it ported, get light wieght rotors, get a longer warranty.

How much easier do you think it would be to sell if you had a 5yr warranty vs a 1yr? ...especially when people think the engine is only good for 60k.
Actually the engine is good for 100k, but it is a "race car" and only a Yamaha R1 or a pair of chearleaders only wearing pom poms give me a bigger grin

maxpesce

This is wrong - the efini "Y" pipe (more correctly the 96+) is a drop in replacement for the eariler version and mates to the secondary turbo tube using the SAME O ring - the latter secondary turbo tube is the same as the early one. This joint allows for thermal expasion of the turbos.

Mach2

Don't want to downgrade all the Remans out there, but the one I got was JUNK!! If you've never opened up a reman that you have no idea what you are talking about. For those who say,"Yea, I know this guy that went to a factory and "saw" them building beautiful things," that's just BS! I don't believe anything unless "I" see it. For those that what to believe this fairy tale, good luck, and I'll see you at your next rebuild. Btw, if you want to see some pics of that crap I'll gladly post them.

Toadman

Tell us about this "JUNK".

martini

So far, I've had great luck with my mazda reman.

*knocks on wood*