Not sure I understand. Whats wrong with the L88 427??

 

If you've got money for a Noble, you've got money to maintain a very fast and reliable FD AND buy a nice daily driver.

 

Nothing wrong with it, just assloads of torque and scary fast. My dad had one in his '66 vette stingray many years ago.

 

Goodfella,

Exactly my point!!!

BTW, my old boss in the Air Force just bought a black 2005 Ford Cobra Mustang w/@650 hp under the hoop! Car has hit the 1/4 mile in 10.9 and 125 MPH. Bought it on ebay for $27,000.

Did a little research this morning. A 2007 vette will run between $44,000 - $72,000 depending on options. Horse power will go from 400 -500 based on the model you choose.

A 67 vette will run you about $55,000 - $199,000 (yes insane but I saw it on the web). Horse power comes in at 400.

I say go with the 2006 vette!!

 

I'll give you track performance, but not exactly refined for the street. It also has IMO, ugly over the top styling, and that engine isn't exactly cutting edge anymore either.

 

They didn't make Mustang Cobras in 2005.

 

My bad, it was a 2003 with 19,200 miles on the odometer.

 

Yeah, I figured it was an 03/04 Cobra. I assume you mean 650 crank hp which would be about 550 rwhp. Is the car on the stock Eaton? Nitrous?

 

I think the LS1 FD is hands down the best car in its price range. I think it's just about the perfect combination for a street/track car. Reliable as a rock, very fast, with the excellent handling, lightweight and gorgeous looks of an FD.

I own one and I was in a similar situation with having the time, place, and experience to do the swap myself properly. So I sent my car to Hinson and had them do it for me.

The car gets about 25mpg on the interstate. However, driving around town, very agressively, including a couple of visits to the drag strip... I got 11.5mpg on a tank once lol.

I spent roughly $11,000 on parts and labor and $5,150 on the engine and drivetrain (02' LS1, T-56, w/ 35k miles). If you look around you can often find a good engine and tranny for as little as 3k but I was having trouble finding one at the time.

Here's what was included in the parts and labor cost:
- Complete Hinson mounting equipment, cooling system, fuel system, CAI, etc.
- Hinson ECU Tune
- Hinson SS mid-length headers, y-pipe, and custom straight pipe adapted to my original rotary thermal eng. ss catback
- Ported throttle body
- Aluminum driveshaft
- New LS6 clutch with Fidanza aluminum flywheel and installation
- New PS rack (mine was leaking) and installation
- AC and power steering
- All emissions stuff removed, shift skip eliminated, throttle body coolant bypass eliminated, etc.

With the above mods the car is making about 350-360rwhp and it probably weighs under 2,850lbs (car is a touring model).

I also spent $800 to ship the car over there. And of course spent some money on gas and lodging to drive up there with a friend and pick it up.

My car was at Hinson's shop for about 3-4 months, sitting outside. That period of time was extremely stressful, let me tell you. Most of that time was spent waiting on an engine. Hinson was going to source an engine for me, but after 3 months of back and forth and no engine found, I finally called around to some salvage yards, found an engine myself, and had him call the guy and arrange to have it delivered to him. Then it took about 1-2 weeks for them to do the entire swap once they had the engine.

So here is some GOOD ADVICE if you decide to have Hinson build do your swap:
- Find an engine/tranny in advance! Ship your car to him once you have found an engine. Otherwise it will just sit there in the weather for a while
- Give Hinson a deadline for when you need the car back. Expect it to take about 4 weeks or so to get the car back, assuming they have the drivetrain and everything. If you give him deadline for when you need the car for whatever reason, you are more likely to have him actually get it done by that time. Don't tell him you have all the time in the world or he won't give your car any priority!
- PULL THE ROTARY DRIVETRAIN yourself and sell it! You can save a ton of money this way. Hinson told me that they could TRY to sell the drivetrain for me and get maybe $500 but there were no guarantees (my car had a blown engine). So instead I pulled the engine and tranny myself. I sold the long block alone for $1,250. I sold all of the other rotary parts I didn't need and got close to $3000 total for everything. And there were still quite a few things I left on the car that I could have sold, such as the PPF, fuel system, parts of the wiring harness, etc. So I recommend removing and selling as much of the stuff as you can, just make sure you talk to Hinson and don't remove anything that they are going to need. Also, you can get about a $200 discount in labor if you send them the car without the drivetrain. The car will also be lighter for shipping.

Overall I am extremely happy with the car and it's very solid. There are however a couple of small problems and things I wasn't too happy with about the swap:
- I wasn't thrilled with the job they did with the AC. They used the stock lines and welded some lines together, so you have lines in places that are too long and looped around, and just routed in a fashion that is not as elegant as I would like. Note however that I am extremely picky and a perfectionist when it comes to this stuff. The AC doesn't leak at all however, so I can't really complain too much.
- The Hinson cooling system isn't really sufficient for driving in heavy traffic on hot days, especially with the AC on (note I'm in FL). This is the only real problem I have. It's a good radiator but the issue is that the fan isn't quite strong enough, the fan only pulls air through less than 3/4 of the radiator, and there is no shrouding. Also, the radiator sits so close to the engine that there is no room to add a big fan/shroud and there is little room for the air to escape. This also causes an issue with the CAI, because it is very close to the radiator and the air temps get pretty high at low speeds. But this isn't really a huge deal because it can be fixed fairly easily. I am going to relocate my radiator all the way forward and mount a good fan with proper shrouding, and that should solve the problem. However you might want to talk to Hinson and see if they can customize your cooling system in this way for you ahead of time. The early 90's Ford SHO Taurus fan is one of the best options - it's cheap, fits well, has shrouding, and pulls about 4,500-5,000 cfm through the whole radiator vs. about 2,500cfm with the hinson fan through part of the radiator. BTW I have had my coolant temps get up to around 240-250*F a couple of times, and it didn't bother the engine one bit!
- The power steering isn't quite perfect, but this was already an issue with the F-Bodies. They flow too much fluid and tend to overheat at the track. They are also too strong for the FD, but Hinson adds a nice valve that allows you to adjust the flow anywhere from no PS to full PS. However I will eventually have to get a modified LS1 ps pump (there are several available) or go to a manual rack.

Other than that, the car is really great and I'm very happy with it. Much more reliable and daily driveable than a rotary, but only if you have the job done professionally. A lot of guys have problems because they did the swap themselves, and you are bound to run into problems when you do that unless you have prior experience building these cars.

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share some info you might find useful!

- Michael

 

Hmm, that's funny, I don't have any problems with my 400+ rwhp rotary running hot in traffic

 

That's good, cause if it ever does, you will need a new engine Plus you live in NJ! Try driving around in the midday FL summer heat.

But like I said, it's just due to very poor cooling system design. I have no idea why they designed it the way they did, I would never have done it like that. But as long as I'm going over 40mph, the engine has no problem staying cool.

 

Ah, touche! I have teflon-encapsulated coolant seals to ensure longevity, so I'm not too worried. Plus, I daily drove my FD in Texas for about 5 years and never experienced overheating problems either.

 

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the great post. I really appreciate the effort (and the information). I'm sure other forum members will benefit from it also. I am just waiting for a homeequity loan to be approved before I take the plunge and decide on a new car. I hate looking at my car, thinking that I might have to part with it. So, that makes me think that I need to do the LSI swap. Or better yet buy gnx7's car an just get it painted, etc. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the LS1 / FD swap.

John

Maybe I can buy a 2002 z06 as daily driver and just have my FD converted. Then sell the Z06 later... I wonder if I can sneak that one by the wife?

 

No problem, if you have any questions let me know.

It all depends on your financial situation, but why don't you get a cheap and reliable daily driver while the FD is being worked on? My FD is my track/leisure car and I'm always upgrading or modifying something on it, so I have a 98' Ford Escort that I drive when I need a practical and reliable daily driver. It works alright if you can stand driving such a crappy vehicle... I can tolerate it because I know what I have sitting in my garage at home :-) Right now, for example, my FD is sitting in my garage with the front suspension off. There are also certain places I don't like to drive or park the FD, so I take the beater car to those places. But when it's driveable, however, I find myself daily driving the FD to work... and I find myself looking for errands to run so that I can go for a drive... it's just such a blast to drive.

 

This sounds almost like my current situation. I have just installed my 1st motor but having coolant issues after 100 miles. Had the car for 10+ years now! I love it! Single turbo car. When the car was running on the last motor it was such a blast to drive. I have kids now, 2 business's and just no time to be pulling motors and all the other work that is involved with it. I am really considering parting it out and getting a late model Z06 (2003-2005) or a GTS Viper! leaning more towards the Viper just based on its looks. I know I will miss my 7 if I sell but its beginning to be a thorn in me!
Now, I am not a fan of motor swaps. Just not my taste. Hinson is located about 20 minutes from were I live! I would sell your FD and buy an Zo6 before doing a swap, just seems easier and you would be getting so much more in a 12 year newer car. Getting a NSX sounds neat but they are slow, yes I have driven one! But if you are ok with the lack of power they sure look great with some nice wheels! Hard choice, but atleast in these days we have some compared to 10 years ago! Good luck in your decision.

 

Can you elaborate on your coolant issues? Perhaps start a thread. Guys, it's not rocket science. There is *no* reason to have issues with overheating/coolant o-ring failure. If you are having them, it's operator/builder error.......

 

Car is supercharged (Paxton?) and has a bunch of other goodies under the hood- no nitrous.

 

Yeah, I am sure if it is the motor then it was just a mistake on my builder's part. Either way it just the kinda problems I am getting sick of on these cars. Who are we kidding, these motors are finiky as ****. I do not mind the money spent or the time put into the car but when the rewards suck as my current situation then it becomes unfun... At this point I am still hanging in there but I honestly can not say for how long....

 

They aren't THAT finnicky. You've got a cooling system problem, and that could happen to ANY car.

 

too bad 'bout the fd, my opinoin, LS1 Fd, i wonder how much it costs to drop one in though....

 

No less that it would to properly set up your motor so it's tuned right and won't overheat.

 

You can't deny that the rotary engines are tempermental and sensitive. If everything is perfect, sure, they run great. But if the car gets a little hot for whatever reason, there goes your engine. If the engine doesn't startup right away, it floods. And there is a lot of maintenance needed to keep them running perfectly. I can't even count how many times I've seen rotary FD's break down at a track event. Lastly there is no denying that they don't last anywhere near as long as a piston motor. The previous owner of my car drove it for 40k miles without any problems, and then suddenly one day it just overheated and the motor went. It was his second motor. How often do you hear of a piston car on it's third or fourth motor, which is commong for FDs.

I always thought that the 13B was extremely complex for being so simple.

 

Just wanted to correct a few blatant fallacies here.

My FD has gotten 'a little' hot during roadrace events, as hot as 109 degrees C (228F) and the motor was fine. That was a one-time thing, in almost 8 years of ownership (five in texas) seldom has the car gotten above 100 C.

The flooding is basically an urban legend with regard to FDs. Older rx7s with low compression motors, sure. But with the 3rd gens, this is not an issue. I am part-owner of a large rotary shop and in my experience FDs do not flood, after repeatedly moving dozens of them no more than 30 feet countless times.

 

Well, I'm just speaking from personal experience of course. My FD has flooded once before when it was a rotary, and the only other FD owner I know has had his flood once before as well (although only once since he's owned it). And m,y 13b went because it overheated and the coolant seal blew. The previous owner said his first engine went like that too. And from what I have heard and read... these things are not uncommon for FDs.

 

It's cool man. I don't want you to think I am busting your *****, because that isn't my intent. I've been around FDs for about 8 years now, and have driven probably over a hundred at this point, so I think I have a good feel about their weaknesses. I try to be fair balance about it too---the big problem is the apex seals and their intolerance of detonation, moreso than the things you mentioned.