grimple1

iTrader: (1)

PREFACE:

Is there a ground cable that goes to the Auto Trans Starter? I took my old one off today and can't seem to figure out how the wiring went. I've poured over the service manual but it's less than detailed about it.

What I have: the plug from the switch (terminal S plug) - THis i know I've got in the correct place as it can only go one terminal, the battery (terminal B) and then I've got this black/yellow wire (a thick one) that I'm not sure where to connect. I THINK it came off one of the bolts from the starter to the trans casing. That's where it is now.

Chapter 1:

I've been having problems with starting the car lately... or the lack thereof. Got a new starter today and was hoping that'd fix it... no such luck. Still get click, click, no start. I'm thinking I've got the wires on incorrectly or that there's something else going on.

It can only be a few things, right?

Battery - NOT the battery. It tests fine and i use a jump box.
Ignition Switch - Seems to be putting juice to the starter. test light and volt meter seem to check out. 9v on terminal S when I put the switch in the on position.
Harness Cable (battery 12v) - checks out. test light and volt meter test good. 12v and light.
Neutral Safety/inhibitor - NOT checked that one. MAYBE?

Think I'm on the right track or what, guys? Perhaps I missed something?

Anyone had any experience with this the inhibitor/neutral safety switch. Seems to be another less than detailed area in the manual. UGH!

CantGoStraight

Careful with your test light, they have been known to set off an air bag or two if stuck in the wrong place. You should have more than 9v at the ignition switch, yours is an Auto so you need to get the electrical diagram and see where all the starter circuict goes to see where your loosing all that voltage

bajaman

I suspect your ignition switch. I fought the same thing for years, even replaced the $300 starter only to have the exact same problems. Not wanting to spend ANOTHER $300 on a new ignition switch (and the incredible hassle of replacing it) I simply added a push-button starter switch, concealed under the steering column. This has worked perfectly for years.
I made a thread on it a long time ago.
Do this: Turn your ignition switch to 'on', now take a piece of 10 gauge wire and go from the positive terminal of the battery and touch it to the 'S' post of the starter. If the car starts fine, then it is likely your ignition switch.
If you DO add the push button starter, you will need to put a dual-connection spade connector on the 'S' terminal and leave the original single black wire on one side of it, or else you will get an ABS light illuminated all the time.

jeff p

I had the same problem with my auto . I replaced the starter and the Ignition switch still no luck. I took the car to mark at tripoint , he put a relay switch off the starter and it solved the problem. its been two years now and no problem. stop guessing and changing parts. its a simple fix by tripoint. trust me on this one I spent a lot of money the hard way.
Jeff

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

I think I figured it out.

Well I get 12v at terminals S and B. SO it's not the ignition, nor inhibitor swith, and it's not the battery (again this is all with a jump box so it's 12v plus i votmetered it).

Somethign in the starter has to be the problem. After some testing, i'm certain that it is 1 of 2 things (perhaps both?). 12v to the M terminal indicates that the mechanical starter parts are operational and agressive. Starter kicks like crazy. This leaves a problem with the magnetic switch.

The suspects:
1. The refurbished starter has a higher aftermarket spring resistance (the k factor for those electrical engineers out there) that prevents the magnetic switch to properly magnatize and eject the pinion. In short the spring is either too long and the piece to be pulled is too far away from the magnetic field and cannot be pulled or the spring is too strong and overrides the magnetic field thus creating 0. IE. the magnetic field is pulling 5 lbs and the spring is pushing away from the field at 5lbs, you get nothing.. no movement whatsoever. SO the spring is a possible suspect.

or

2. The magnetic switch is not producing enough magnetic field to pull the pinion switch. Let's take that 5lb spring again. Say the spring is correct in length and resistance (k factor). Now suppose the magnetic field should be pulling 10lbs. It should be able to compress the spring fully. If it's not pulling enough magnetic field then there's a problem with the solenoid itself and not the spring.

I'm taking it back to the shop that did the repairs and ask them to run a magnetic test on the switch to ensure that it's producing the correct field. If so, the spring is the culprit.

I'll do a write up of how I came to this conclusion a little later but wanted to get an exact answer before doing so.

Some theorizing:
I don't know if this is a universal problem or just mine. Perhaps the inhibitor switch isn't the faulty part in all of the automatics. Perhaps some engineer somewhere got the incorrect specifics in regards to the magnetic field vs spring length/k factor.

A Question:
The manual says that the pinion should stay ejected after it is engaged. Is that true? I'm not too keen on the mechanics of starters but does the starter stay engaged (mechanically) once the engine is running. I thought the starter only spun at the beginning setting things into motion. Once they are in motion, I thought the starter got out of the way and let the transmission spin on its own. NOT continuing to spin with it. Is that incorrect? I'm trying to rationalize why the starter should stay engaged (mechanically in gear with the transmission) after the intial startup. Anyone?

sevensheaven

iTrader: (1)

This is how it works, when you go to key start power runs through the inhibitor switch to the solenoid. The solenoid shorts internal contacts across B and M to make contact from the battery to ground throgh the starter motor (overcoming the solenoid spring and spining the motor). The solenoid also kicks out and holds the starter gear on the flexplate ring gear until the starter switch is released(spins the engine). With the switch off , the solenoid spring pulls the gear back away from the flexplate ring gear and opens contacts across B and M (starter motor stops). If the solenoid is weak or the current is low it can't over come spring tension and nothing happens. You can show 12v etc. all day long, but if there are no or low amps you are out of luck. When you take your battery to auto zone , advanced or any other place to get it tested they put a load on it ( check the amps).

grimple1

iTrader: (1)

It was the starter solenoid. When the starter was refurbished, their new starter solenoid was inverted from the original starter solenoid. A quick explination from the owner and 20 mins under the car and the RX now runs. So it was partially my fault for not thinking of that and theirs for not telling me. No biggie but a lot of lost man hours and a pair of litterly disguisting work clothes (LA streets are friggin' Dirtay).

When I first got the thing back, I noticed that the solenoid was on upside down. I thought well they must've gotten it backwards, not knowing they had REPLACED the entire solenoid, not refurbished the old one) so I rotated it around thinking no biggie. Well big biggie. Apparently (from the owner's explination) there are 2 coils inside the starting solenoid. One to pull and one to hold. When I had put it on the "original" way, only one coil was working... the one that holds. Not the one that pulls. This would explain why the starter would hold the metal anchor but not strong enough to compress the spring. Imagine the solenoid upside down but keeping the same wiring terminals. Perhaps, as I think about it, more my fault.

Their Solenoid:
M B
S

Original Solenoid
S
M B


For the above poster, I've been using a jump box for my 12v. The battery died early on. It might be bad at this point but the 12v to the starter was fine as it was from a brand new 300amp jump box. Also thank you for that explination of the starter.



No write-up comming. All user/specific error. Not sure anything here would help the general 7 auto population at large.

Les

There have also been some issues with wiring harnesses that have been replaced by Mazda. A search will give more info as I have none. I put my own switch in line with the relay and it works every time. I have an auto also.