I think the hood in CF is great..because Scoot does not make it that way..so hopefully that is a product improvement...

Now if only the Feed bumber was poly-u I'd be all over it too...because that would be something new and worth while.

 

I don't think you can really talk about an aesthetic form as being an "innovation". And I think that's important, because with true innovation, you can tell immediately whether it "works". With something like a bumper style, you only know if it "works" after a period of time, by looking at sales. So with a knockoff, you're taking advantage, yes, of the fact that this design has been market-tested, and tested again here by gauging interest in a knockoff. I don't think you're taking *unfair* advantage of the originators of the design; if they wanted to market the item effectively here in the U.S., they could have done so. But they didn't. And don't make the mistake of thinking that they *have* to sell theirs for more than the knockoff. They could certainly have figured out how to make it cheap if they wanted to.

 

I suggest you try explaining your definition of a knockoff to say...Calvin Klein, Donna Karan, Ralph Lauren, Gucci, Prada, etc.

The only difference here is that the tuner companies have not yet "officially" taken action against knockoffs whereas the clothing designers spend millions of dollars to fight knockoffs. Then again, maybe the tuner companies have started investigating knockoffs and most people don't know it yet... hmmmmmm.

Well Orange!FD, instead of the word "Innovate", how about "Create". Here is why. A scupltor will carve a design out of a solid piece of rock. This qualifies as original, does it not? The tuner companies, in essence, carved their own design in a bumper. Given that...they created an original product. However, w/ knockoffs...you're not sculpting anything different. You're stealing the design. So like BlackR1 said w/ my change added..."Create, don't replicate!"

 

Actually my friends at Motorex said that they have started to take action and C-Westin's behalf. The same goes for Veilside USA. From what i know they are trying to find as many copies as possible to file suit. Not sure the status on it but from what i know the Motorex guys have a lot of money involved with it and are pretty pissed.

 

And they won't have a leg to stand on, excepting perhaps Veilside's position. These companies have made virtually *zero* real effort to sell their products in the U.S. A judge will see that and, at worst, order the knockoff makers, one at a time, to cease and desist. I doubt that (remote) possibility has many of them quaking.

=========================
First thing we do, we kill all the lawyers. - Socrates

 

Neither do i but at least they're gonna try. Motorex as the Cwest Rep has a shot like Veilside but it is a hard battle to fight. Look at all the copies of Volk rims out there.

 

they all get pissed but there is nothing they can do, the copy kit companies are ready for lawsuits...

 

I guess they will sue you as well. You should tell the moderator to remove your replica group buy thread before those authentic bodykits makers see it. You are on the same boat as those copy kit companies. I am going to do those authentic bodykit maker a favor now. BELOW IS ALPINE'S REPLICA BODYKIT GROUP BUY THREAD. COME AND GET HIM!!!

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...threadid=19869

Why are there so many hyporites in this world??

 

LOL! Get a little realistic.

 

Nothing wrong with replicas. heheh if itlooks real, looks good and fits nice then I see no problems. Do you like fake ****? heheh Or can you even tell the difference on some? hehehe. I don't mind replicas, especially when they have saved me a few grand. The only thing you are paying for on authentic ones is shipping. Really kicks you in the ***. Like the RE Amemiya lights. It runs only 950 over there and for some reason cost up to 1500 here. you do the math.


Also,
I don't see the reason why some of you are defending these companies. LOL. Man you act as if they were poor. veilside, mazdaspeed, cwest, knight sports. Virtually all million-dollar companies. Do you really think it takes that much money to make a kit out of fiber glass. Hell no. Granted they did put alot of r&d into it but i'm sure they make back their fair share of the money they used for r&d. Their are products to be sold and money to be made, who gives a damn who does it. Costs of authentic products are sometime outrageous. I thank knock off companies. I have a replica front end, soon replica lights and scoot hood. Big deal... (my car basically have fake ****... LOL)

 

Million dollar companies? Most of the tuner shops in Japan are just little hole in the wall garages. They don't even make that many kits to begin with. My friend ordered a Amemiya spoiler back in 98 and had to wait 9 months because Amemiya had to find the mold and make one. Japanese are notorious for JIT inventory. They don't mass produce this stuff like how they do in the US. Another reason for quality. Most of there companies never planned to be making alot of thier kits. Most of them make it for thier race cars and have the mold so the sell a few.

It's mentality like this which brings down the exclusivness of things. Many of us work hard to afford the things we want. And yes certain things in life act as trophies. An Rx-7 is a trophy, being able to afford a sports car that very few people can have. But, so are the things we put on it.

Hell I've pieced my car together for 4 years with everything that KnightSports makes. Hell I even have the only KnightSports Blister Flare kit in the U.S. waiting to be installed once my rear bumper comes in from Japan. It really pisses me off when i see a copy kit becuase it cheapens the hard work that i put in to my car.

Yes this is my personal opinion and yes, it does come from first hand knowlege because everything on my car is real. Hell, when my motor blew i even imported a 96 motor for the car. (It was cheap actually $1500 for motor and tranny)

Rx-7 owers are a elite and select few. Every year there are less of us in the US. It's just sad to see that the once exclusive club becomes more and more like the Honda Ricers on the street. I know that people will flame me for this but remember that you all own Rx-7s not Civics and you have a car that is like no other.

Yes it may not cost that much to make a FG kit for the car but a copy, not a subsitute, is just a weak excusse to make money with no creativity of your own. So yes, you have to "work" to make the mold. but think of the real work it took to design the kit from scratch. And unlike many of the kits on Hondas most FD kits are functional and tuners use these kits when they race and compete in drag and autocross. Even some of the wings are wind tunnel tested...KnightSports did for their wing.

I'm not rich, I don't walk around is $300 dollar shoes and check the time on a Rolex but, I do save and i do spend on what i want. You want cheap kits go buy a Civic.

A Rolex tells time like a Swatch but there is a reason why one is more impressive than the other. Exclusivness.

And yes i have dated girls with fake ****(5'4" 34C-23-34) even a stripper for a time and in the end give me the real thing.

 

nope...no flaming on my behalf!

nicely said man.

 

Funny thing is CHEAP for us is still WAAAY more expensive than a bod kit for a Honda

I have the ORIGINAL 99 spec urethane front end sitting in my garage. I jumped on the Feed Replica group buy because I have ALWAYS wanted the feed front end, and this replica will be just as good an asthetics. You know, this entire discussion is driving me

I think about installing my original piece which sits in my garage, and then I think about the replica which I have my hopes in getting. To be honest, it's really not going to bother me one bit that its a replica. If the original feed was even $1000, I'd go for it, but not for $1700. To me, that is just an insane amount of $$$ for a damn bumper. There ARE some things worth buying brand name for, like electronics, wheels, etc, but I dont see the same reasoning with a bumper or wings.

You guy are getting me depressed

 

If with you Flybye... I don't think anyone in this thread buys "top of the line everything".

I don't think everyone in here has Armani suits, when cheaper ones look just as good and do the same job. I don't think everyone here wears Rolex watches when cheaper ones do the same thing...

Basically, you can't support one type of knock off and then flame others who use a different knock off. It's pathetic and being hypocritical.

What is funny, probably half of these people who are flaming other FD owners for not wanting to spend an extra $500-1000 on one part for their car when something less expensive does the same job, are these same people who were all over napster being too cheap to go pay for a $15 music CD...

 

RotaryKnight: Do you really think RE Amemiya is broke becuase he took a long time to send your friend a wing. Man you must be kidding me. Have you seen RE's show car. It is probably worth over a 100k, look at cwest, knight sports, and all these other "whole in the wall tuners" These are hobbies for most of these guys. Most of them are rich as hell. hahah. If you feel they really need the buisness then have at it and keep buying from them. And like someone mention before in this thread, these guys don't even promote sells in the U.S. Also, ust because some of us don't buy real body kits, that's not what makes an RX7 what it is. It's whats under the hood. I don't have a supra engine or a corvette engine under there. I have a nicely built rotary engine with all high end parts. You can be apart of that exclusive club that buys all orginal parts but for me, my life doesn't revolve around my car and I don'st spend every dime I have on the car (although I have spunt alot). I have other bills and a family to worry more about. I buy them real food and keep them covered over a real roof. Now that's exclusive for me.

I agree with flybye and Mahjik, some things aren't worth buying name brand. Like body kits. I do have a set of real c2, real hks guages, real hks ssbov, real ceramic seals ($2100), real greddy guages, real apexi gt exhuast, real blitz fmic, real pettit intake, real FEED downpipe, real ATR midpipe, hahah the list gies on and on and on.


(oh by the way, i'm not flaming anyone, just posting my opinion, this is all a hobby to me)

 

Amemiya is just a guy who started this as a hobby. And before Kamazuka san died (knightsports) he and Amemiya had a great competition going for awhile. But one of the reason why their stuff is so expensive is because they never planned to mass market their stuff. They built it for their cars with their time and effort.

And yes one reason why some of the companies don't sell to the US is because of the threat of copies. My friend was the KnightSports US rep when they had an office here. The reason KnightSports decided not to keep a US office is reasons like this. They wouldn't have been able to keep profits high enough.

They only have 15 employees in Japan. A two story building, 4 garage and a Dyno that's it. These tuners are not as big as you think and they don't make as much money as you think

Amemiya, KnightSports, Fujita and Top Fuel are all pretty much the same. You know why they have bad *** cars too because of help from companies like GReddy HKS and Apex. Like here, there is no money in rotary performance. Rotary tuners in japan are few so some of them started looking to the states for more income. KnightSports tried and realized that it was worse to come over.

They had plans to open a full mechanic and tuning shop....and yes i can say this is first hand information. And why do i get so pissed off? Because for a while i was helping out and hoping the KnightSports would open shop.

It is just a shame to see it copied and bastardized they way it is in the US. I know Motorex tryies with the Cwest stuff. Hell they made one company at SEMA remove all the copies that they were displaying and had on cars at SEMA.

 

If you were there first hand you would know the going costs of these kits.. You are telling me that knight sports had to sell it at those price to survive? =) YOu must be kidding because these knock off companies sells it at near half and still survive. But they don't make all there money off knockoffs. They sell parts as well. It sounds like you are saying knight sports went down because of knock off compnaies. LOL. I didn't know body kit knock off companies did rotary tunning and modifications. Look at pettit, pfs, rotarty performance, rx7.com, almo rotary. All successful rotary performance shops. They sell kits, parts and do performance as well as routine servieces..


"It is just a shame to see it copied and bastardized they way it is in the US" When you say that , it sounds like you are saying copy cat companies were the end of them. Where they planning to only make money off body kits. LOL they better revise their buisness stratagies. Get serious man. It's a competitive world out there. No one said it was goign to be easy. You think Bill Gate's kingdom was handed to him, hell no he took it. HAHAHAHHA.

**oh by the way no one says you can't have a million dollar comany with 15 employees and one dyno. Does he acutally let you see his paper work on profits at the end of the year??? i don't think so. My friend makes close to 250k a year profits and he only has 4 employee at one cellualr store. My other friend is a mechanic making 100k a year at A lexus mechanic shop and there are only a total of 15 mechanics there. I think it is very possible for any hole in the wall company to break 1 million. Get real, if all those companies you claim are not making moeny, why don't they just get in another profession, or why don't you make a relief fund for jap tuners. These guys probably make more money than any of us here. If they are not then I suggest they get a real 9-5 job instaed of a 9-5 hobby.

 

well said RotaryKnight, I agree with all of it.

A lot of people don't realize that Japanese Corporations are WAYYY different from American Corporations...hardly any of them make a profit and are hardly staying afloat. With the Japanese economy so low right now, I think we need to re-iterate how much copy kits can hurt them.

I'm not surprised in the least to hear that Japanese tuners wont sell over here because of the popularity of copied body kits.

If there were never any replica body kits...would they have sold over here? I guess we'll never know...

 

How can you expect to be competitive in a market that is already saturated with plagiarized kits that are selling at over half the cost?

 

Oh my freaking goodness... Man you are buying into this BS. No one told the japs to sell their kits so damn high. Why don't they sell say a hundred to 200 over the replica cost. Instead they sell close to 500 dollars over replica cost. Sounds a little greedy to me. And most of the front bumpers are based off the OEM bumper. They just mold it to look a little different. If you look at most of them they do look like the OEM now don't they. Ofcourse there are exceotions that look totally different. But most are OEM based. If nkight sports or RE or Feed kits were say 100 to 300 over replicas I would buy the original. But damn there like double the cost almost. Get real dude! hahah

 

"A lot of people don't realize that Japanese Corporations are WAYYY different from American Corporations...hardly any of them make a profit and are hardly staying afloat. With the Japanese economy so low right now, I think we need to re-iterate how much copy kits can hurt them. " posted by BlackR1


If they are staying afloat, I feel bad for them, Mc Donalds is offering FREE JOBS! Like I said before they should change professions if they are not making it in this one. You know how many times I tried openeing a computer shop and it didn't work out. Damn I didn't cry about it I tried again. And still didn't work. Still not crying. Just went and got a real job. My friend threw close to 90k into opening his own mechanic shop while keeping his real job and it didn't work out, but he didn't cry about it. He's just gonna try again later, with a new plan. Feel sorry form families that don't get to eat a meal everyday like we do, or feel sorry for sept 11 familys and friends who lost someone. But don't feel sorry for poeple trying to make a buisness and didn't succeed. There are millions of people who try to make a buisness and don't suceed, feel sorry for them as well why don't you.

 

The jap tuners like doing what they do for a living, thus it is a career. If they did not, then it would be a job. Your suggestion for them to "get a real 9-5 job" is an opinion.

You also have to realize that their economy/social status is way different from ours. Their costs for living space is far higher than ours (for the most part). People are also paid differently throughout the whole US...so your example of your mechanic friend making 100k is not true for every mechanic. There are mechanics that I would say make 20k and possibly less.

Knight Sports, RE, and others are designers. They set the prices at what they believe people will pay for them. If that were not true, then that will be their loss. They do not have to justify themselves by making their prices more "affordable". Setting high prices for a product can be justification to make an item exclusive. For example, Hollywood parties are made to be just that...exclusive. Private party invitations or celeb status only. If anyone could get into these parties...who would care?

 

You know, these Jap tuners don't just make body kits. You guys make it sound like that's all they do. They sell a lot of different products too. If their business was all about body kits, I think we wouldn't be seeing them now.

 

my friend makes 100 k because he has 10 years of experieince. And he is head of his diagnostics team. He is certiified is by almost every automotive name. He would make a 100k anywhere he goes except for cali. He would make more there. As he has been offered many of times. Mechanics that make 20k must really suck. Any true mechanic would make at least 40k, if they are not, they ae not loking in the right places. And again. If these Jap tuners were struggling this much, they sure have been around for a long damn time. Plus you don't even know how they live. he could be gambling his money away or sniffing it away. You are sitting there defending people's whos lives you know nothing of. If he was doing that bad he would have quit along time ago. Instead they have 50 page catologs and are often featured in super and turbo magazines because people feel sorry for them? No , because they are good and successful at what they do. So please get me a copy of thier profits before you start saying they make no money. If you can get me an auctual bank statement that shows his bank account at a few hundred dollars left. (like asians keep money in the bank anyway) and i'll start buying their kits.... LOL


Hung

 

GEEZ this thread is lame. WOW.