Hot Start Problem?
I've been running premix every tankful...no problems so far! 
08-21-09, 09:45 AM
#53
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
To answer a question asked above, I am not running the RA adapter, there is no room with my A Spec long runner exhaust manifold.
08-21-09, 10:09 AM
#54
Magic Triangles no more!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 285
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Like I said on SF:
Get a compression test with a rotary compression tester and verify the compression before sending off the engine to get new deals, etc.
Get a compression test with a rotary compression tester and verify the compression before sending off the engine to get new deals, etc.
08-21-09, 10:33 AM
#55
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The previous owner already did a compression test and the builder said there was low compression on one rotor during hot compression test.
djseven, drive 500-1000 miles without boosting yea?
djseven, drive 500-1000 miles without boosting yea?
08-21-09, 12:56 PM
#56
Excessively high IAT's generated by my XS Power SMIC. 
We were doing several dyno pulls, and tried one 4th gear pull (other pulls were all 3rd gear)...That was it...We saw 70+ degree IATs on the PFC Commander...
Motor came out and came apart, failed corner seal springs and side seals...It sucked to say the least.
We were doing several dyno pulls, and tried one 4th gear pull (other pulls were all 3rd gear)...That was it...We saw 70+ degree IATs on the PFC Commander...Motor came out and came apart, failed corner seal springs and side seals...It sucked to say the least.
08-21-09, 01:29 PM
#57
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So I was able to take some time to go through the receipts he gave me and this was the major one with all the work done on 9/6/08
Job1: Overhaul engine all parts are new - Parts: $3500, labor $3600
Engine gasket set, oil filder, motor oil, coolant, rotor housing, rotor housing, main bearings, apex seal, apex seal spring, 3mm corner seal, 3mm corner seal plug, oil control seal set, oil control small o-ring, oil control large o-ring, oil metering line, oil metering nozzle, oil pressure spring, left motor mount. Notes: overhauled engine, replaced main bearings, seals, orings, rotor housings. Resurfaced side housings. Set all clearances to factory minimum specs. Refilled fluids.
Job2: Replaced water hoses - Parts: $145, labor: $25
Lower and upper radiator hose, heater hose at rear, hose at rear pump, water hose, hose under throtle, heater hose at firewall.
Job3: Street Port Engine - Parts: $0, labor: $600
Street port and polish 4 intake and 2 exhaust ports
Job4: Machine rotors for 3mm apex seal - Parts: $0, labor $680
CNC machine rotors for 3mm apex seals. Re-balance rotors
Job5: Install upgraded fuel pump - Parts: $280, labor $128
Race fuel pump
Job6: Install upgraded injectors - Parts: $440, labor $45
Installed 1300cc secondary injectors. Installed new injector o-rings
Job7: Install twin power ignition - Parts: $0, labor $39
Job8: Install hawk pads, machine rotors - Parts: $0, labor $295
Job9: Install stainless brake lines - Parts: $24, labor $192
Job10: Install upgraded water seals - Parts: $125, labor $0
installed high temp resistant inner water seal set
Job11: Install light flywheel, clutch - Parts: $1137, labor $0
9.5lb flywheel, exedy thich race clutch set, stainless clutch hoses
Job12: Install pulley kit for engine - Parts: $319, labor $0
installed underdrive water pump and alternator pulleys
Job13: Install muffler, midpipe - Parts: $369, labor $51
Installed a resonated midpipe and customers muffler
Job14: Install differential brace - Parts: $0, labor $128
Job15: Wire up boost controller - Parts: $0, labor $228
modified the gauge pod, wired up the controller and gauge
Job16: Install oil cooler kit - Parts: $0, labor $480
removed bumper, installed oil coolers, hoses. Trimmed bumper and mounting points for proper fitment
Job17: Install radiator, battery, etc - Parts: $471, labor $2,359
Installed the radiator, made brackets to fit. Modified the lower undertray for better air flow and to clear fans. Installed intercooler, made brackets, drilled holes in frame. Made up intercooler pipes, sleeves. Relocated battery to storage bin. Installed new miata low gassing battery. Installed air filter, battery cables and terminals. Installed AST elimination kit.
Job18: Make fan harness - Parts: $24, labor $288
made up adaptor harnesses for the fans because they are relocated to under the radiator
Job19: Overhaul 5 speed transmission - Parts: $805, labor $1208
Replaced all main bearings, synchronizer rings, seals, spacers, lock nuts. Set clearances. Refilled with gear oil.
Reccomendations: Keep RPM under 4000 for first 500 miles. Change oil and filter after 1000 miles. Suggest using redline 20/50 motor oil. Customers responsibility to monitor gauges and fluid levels. The boost controller is at its default setting. Customers responsibility to set safe boost levels and make sure engine does not over-boost. The vaccum hoses to the boost controler should be checked often to make sure they are secure. Warranty covers workmanship only. Does not cover damage due to overheating, over-revving, over-boosting (broken seals) or running out of oil. This turbo configuration is capable of extreme horsepower. Customer acceps all responsibility for safe and prudent use. We recommend using race gas if boost is over 12psi. The engine should not be run consistently over 14psi. The clutch in the car is a race only clutch. Using it on the street will wear out the flywheel and pressure plate prematurely. The v-mount kit hangs very low. If the car hits anything on the road, extensive damage will result.
Job1: Overhaul engine all parts are new - Parts: $3500, labor $3600
Engine gasket set, oil filder, motor oil, coolant, rotor housing, rotor housing, main bearings, apex seal, apex seal spring, 3mm corner seal, 3mm corner seal plug, oil control seal set, oil control small o-ring, oil control large o-ring, oil metering line, oil metering nozzle, oil pressure spring, left motor mount. Notes: overhauled engine, replaced main bearings, seals, orings, rotor housings. Resurfaced side housings. Set all clearances to factory minimum specs. Refilled fluids.
Job2: Replaced water hoses - Parts: $145, labor: $25
Lower and upper radiator hose, heater hose at rear, hose at rear pump, water hose, hose under throtle, heater hose at firewall.
Job3: Street Port Engine - Parts: $0, labor: $600
Street port and polish 4 intake and 2 exhaust ports
Job4: Machine rotors for 3mm apex seal - Parts: $0, labor $680
CNC machine rotors for 3mm apex seals. Re-balance rotors
Job5: Install upgraded fuel pump - Parts: $280, labor $128
Race fuel pump
Job6: Install upgraded injectors - Parts: $440, labor $45
Installed 1300cc secondary injectors. Installed new injector o-rings
Job7: Install twin power ignition - Parts: $0, labor $39
Job8: Install hawk pads, machine rotors - Parts: $0, labor $295
Job9: Install stainless brake lines - Parts: $24, labor $192
Job10: Install upgraded water seals - Parts: $125, labor $0
installed high temp resistant inner water seal set
Job11: Install light flywheel, clutch - Parts: $1137, labor $0
9.5lb flywheel, exedy thich race clutch set, stainless clutch hoses
Job12: Install pulley kit for engine - Parts: $319, labor $0
installed underdrive water pump and alternator pulleys
Job13: Install muffler, midpipe - Parts: $369, labor $51
Installed a resonated midpipe and customers muffler
Job14: Install differential brace - Parts: $0, labor $128
Job15: Wire up boost controller - Parts: $0, labor $228
modified the gauge pod, wired up the controller and gauge
Job16: Install oil cooler kit - Parts: $0, labor $480
removed bumper, installed oil coolers, hoses. Trimmed bumper and mounting points for proper fitment
Job17: Install radiator, battery, etc - Parts: $471, labor $2,359
Installed the radiator, made brackets to fit. Modified the lower undertray for better air flow and to clear fans. Installed intercooler, made brackets, drilled holes in frame. Made up intercooler pipes, sleeves. Relocated battery to storage bin. Installed new miata low gassing battery. Installed air filter, battery cables and terminals. Installed AST elimination kit.
Job18: Make fan harness - Parts: $24, labor $288
made up adaptor harnesses for the fans because they are relocated to under the radiator
Job19: Overhaul 5 speed transmission - Parts: $805, labor $1208
Replaced all main bearings, synchronizer rings, seals, spacers, lock nuts. Set clearances. Refilled with gear oil.
Reccomendations: Keep RPM under 4000 for first 500 miles. Change oil and filter after 1000 miles. Suggest using redline 20/50 motor oil. Customers responsibility to monitor gauges and fluid levels. The boost controller is at its default setting. Customers responsibility to set safe boost levels and make sure engine does not over-boost. The vaccum hoses to the boost controler should be checked often to make sure they are secure. Warranty covers workmanship only. Does not cover damage due to overheating, over-revving, over-boosting (broken seals) or running out of oil. This turbo configuration is capable of extreme horsepower. Customer acceps all responsibility for safe and prudent use. We recommend using race gas if boost is over 12psi. The engine should not be run consistently over 14psi. The clutch in the car is a race only clutch. Using it on the street will wear out the flywheel and pressure plate prematurely. The v-mount kit hangs very low. If the car hits anything on the road, extensive damage will result.
08-21-09, 03:41 PM
#60
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Excessively high IAT's generated by my XS Power SMIC. We were doing several dyno pulls, and tried one 4th gear pull (other pulls were all 3rd gear)...That was it...We saw 70+ degree IATs on the PFC Commander...
Motor came out and came apart, failed corner seal springs and side seals...It sucked to say the least.
We were doing several dyno pulls, and tried one 4th gear pull (other pulls were all 3rd gear)...That was it...We saw 70+ degree IATs on the PFC Commander...Motor came out and came apart, failed corner seal springs and side seals...It sucked to say the least.
Did you have a duct installed?
08-21-09, 04:33 PM
#61
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FDracer, I'm trying to learn, just I'm a little slow than others
Anyway, I'm going to drive 500-1000 miles keeping out of boost (that's going to take some discipline) and then go to my builder and do a compression test. If that one rotor's compression is still low, then I'm going to end up leaving the car there to get the work done.
I read through 6 pages of search when I typed in "hot start" Most of the time, it ends up being that the corner seals are done and ending in a rebuild, but some things people have checked seemed to be the injectors and FPR first.
Anyway, I'm going to drive 500-1000 miles keeping out of boost (that's going to take some discipline) and then go to my builder and do a compression test. If that one rotor's compression is still low, then I'm going to end up leaving the car there to get the work done.
I read through 6 pages of search when I typed in "hot start" Most of the time, it ends up being that the corner seals are done and ending in a rebuild, but some things people have checked seemed to be the injectors and FPR first.
08-21-09, 07:54 PM
#66
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once I get the car smogged and registered I'll take it around for a nice casual drive to get some miles on the engine. I'm praying that it is an easy fix such as the seals will just warp back but I highly doubt it. I'd be a lucky FD owner and I don't think it's very common for that to happen.
08-27-09, 07:05 PM
#68
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just wanted to let you guys know an update
So I haven't been able to drive the car because we haven't registered it or anything of that kind yet, but now it has passed smog and everything is registered and is legal to drive on the road now.
Of course, when I try to start the car, the battery is dead... I had to go pickup a new one under warranty, place it in and the car started right up. I drove the car around on the streets casually, no boost etc. Drove great. Idled steady at 850-900ish on the rpms. Vaccum on the boost gauge read around -14 to -7. I brought it home, shut down the car and tried to start the car back up again (test hot start problem) The engine turned...turned...and then started up. Drove the car around again, brought it back home, shut it down and a minute later tried to start it again. Didn't turn over after the first 2 tries but on the 3rd try it started.
This is a lot better than what it used to be where I had to wait 20-30 minutes AND had to have the car hooked up to jumper cables. I have an appointment setup for tomorrow to bring it in to a mechanic to get a compression test. Some think it may be a tuning/timing issue but I'll let you guys know the results of the compression test tomorrow. Should I ask about anything else while I'm there?
So I haven't been able to drive the car because we haven't registered it or anything of that kind yet, but now it has passed smog and everything is registered and is legal to drive on the road now.
Of course, when I try to start the car, the battery is dead... I had to go pickup a new one under warranty, place it in and the car started right up. I drove the car around on the streets casually, no boost etc. Drove great. Idled steady at 850-900ish on the rpms. Vaccum on the boost gauge read around -14 to -7. I brought it home, shut down the car and tried to start the car back up again (test hot start problem) The engine turned...turned...and then started up. Drove the car around again, brought it back home, shut it down and a minute later tried to start it again. Didn't turn over after the first 2 tries but on the 3rd try it started.
This is a lot better than what it used to be where I had to wait 20-30 minutes AND had to have the car hooked up to jumper cables. I have an appointment setup for tomorrow to bring it in to a mechanic to get a compression test. Some think it may be a tuning/timing issue but I'll let you guys know the results of the compression test tomorrow. Should I ask about anything else while I'm there?
08-28-09, 05:36 PM
#69
Can't live without boost.
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 1,220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you've asked every possible question there is to ask, twice.
Like I mentioned to you in the West section, get her up and running and let's go out for a drive
D
Like I mentioned to you in the West section, get her up and running and let's go out for a drive
D
08-30-09, 03:50 AM
#70
Rotary Optimist
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW, my similar hot start issue is most noticeable after I really get on it... as in the car gets truly hot. (no, I have to temp data to support this) Starting the car after it is simply warmed up is not a problem. I say this only to suggest it's possible that your problem hasn't changed.
I just wanted to let you guys know an update
...I drove the car around on the streets casually, no boost etc. Drove great. Idled steady at 850-900ish on the rpms. Vaccum on the boost gauge read around -14 to -7. I brought it home, shut down the car and tried to start the car back up again (test hot start problem) The engine turned...turned...and then started up. Drove the car around again, brought it back home, shut it down and a minute later tried to start it again. Didn't turn over after the first 2 tries but on the 3rd try it started.
This is a lot better than what it used to be where I had to wait 20-30 minutes AND had to have the car hooked up to jumper cables....
...I drove the car around on the streets casually, no boost etc. Drove great. Idled steady at 850-900ish on the rpms. Vaccum on the boost gauge read around -14 to -7. I brought it home, shut down the car and tried to start the car back up again (test hot start problem) The engine turned...turned...and then started up. Drove the car around again, brought it back home, shut it down and a minute later tried to start it again. Didn't turn over after the first 2 tries but on the 3rd try it started.
This is a lot better than what it used to be where I had to wait 20-30 minutes AND had to have the car hooked up to jumper cables....
08-30-09, 02:24 PM
#71
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just went for an hour cruise in the mountains. I cannot wait until I figure out if the engine needs to be rebuilt or not. Tomorrow I drop it off for the compression test to see what needs to be done.
08-30-09, 03:46 PM
#72
New FDguy
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 176
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
wow I think you and I have purchased almost twin cars... For me, I had almost the exact problems you have. as you have probably read, compression tests should be done when the engine is warm because hot engines have lower compression. Second thing is you should also consider it might be a leaky injector as you have a 500r, and you might be running 1600cc secondaries like me. Third, weak batteries compound problems with starting.
I purchased a rotary compression tester, and the test came back borderline pass/fail, right around the high 70 low 80 psi range.
Like you, I have a small rainy day fund, just to make sure. In the end, great looking car, and those tan seats look mint condition, wish my car had that.
Good luck with the car.
I purchased a rotary compression tester, and the test came back borderline pass/fail, right around the high 70 low 80 psi range.
Like you, I have a small rainy day fund, just to make sure. In the end, great looking car, and those tan seats look mint condition, wish my car had that.
Good luck with the car.
08-30-09, 04:05 PM
#73
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks a lot for the help. The car is running 550 primary injectors and bored out 1300 secondary injectors I'm pretty sure. The battery was dead/drained and have since then purchased a new one. I am really hoping that it is just a simple fix such as the injectors or something of that kind, but we will see tomorrow when I get compression done on the rotors.
08-31-09, 06:04 PM
#75
Rotary Freak
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: US
Posts: 2,150
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just got the results from the compression test
Cold Test:
Rotor1 - 6.4kg, 6.0kg, 5.5kg @ 250rpm
Rotor2 - 5.6kg, 5.6kg, 6.4kg @ 251rpm
Hot Test:
Rotor1 - 4.0kg, 3.6kg, 4.1kg @ 234rpm
Rotor2 - 4.6kg, 4.9kg, 4.3kg @ 268rpm
Cold Test:
Rotor1 - 6.4kg, 6.0kg, 5.5kg @ 250rpm
Rotor2 - 5.6kg, 5.6kg, 6.4kg @ 251rpm
Hot Test:
Rotor1 - 4.0kg, 3.6kg, 4.1kg @ 234rpm
Rotor2 - 4.6kg, 4.9kg, 4.3kg @ 268rpm