HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

djseven

So first thing to do is drive the car 500-1000 miles with the premix in it staying out of boost to help lube the engine?

If that doesn't end up working, what would be next? Getting the car retuned?

pluto

really??? so you have seemed warping apex seals due to advance timing? Here's a video to disprove what you saw and your experience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6B2k...e=channel_page

as for leaner a/f causing it to run hotter EGT. How hot is hot? how lean is lean?
why don't you tell us at what point will cause the apex seals to warp due to leaner a/f ratio? is 14.7:1 lean enough?

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Called Rick again, and he said that they did a compression test cold and hot in November after it was tuned. Cold compression test he said was perfect, but the hot compression test wasn't ideal for one of the rotors. I asked what could be the problem and he said that we either have to replace an apex seal or apex spring, ballpark estimate for the work done would be $3500.

I'm going to offer him $11,000 for the car and if he doesn't take it I'm not worries as I'll have to sink at least 3,500 into the car anyway sooner or later.

djseven

iTrader: (56)

Retuning the car will not help the seal conform back to its original shape. The best thing for it would be a long road trip if you trust it can make it. If that doesnt help restore compression it will need pulled and rebuilt.

David

IRPerformance

iTrader: (41)

Do you have the funds, equipment, or means to determine at what temperature and a/f ratio the seals will warp? I don't and don't believe you do either. This point is going to be different for every seal as different metals have different properties. No one was bashing your tuning. It was simply stated that tuning, lack of lubrication, etc could be the source of the problem. I don't really care what is on you-tube or who tuned the car. Real life personal experience is what matters to me. Until he takes the motor apart, the cause of failure is unknown. Stay on topic please.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

The car runs fine from what I can tell. When I went to see the car, it was in clean shape. He pulled up and kept the car on (which shows that if he turned off the car it wouldn't have started again) I asked if I could take a drive and he said yea. I back up, drive to a stop sign in the parking lot and stall it because I wasn't used to the clutch (doh) We then had to wait 20-25 minutes and jump the car to start it.

In order to not possibly waste another 20-25 minutes of his and my time, I told him I'll let him drive it. We drove around town, car ran fine. He took it on the freeway, accelerated good, he opened it up running through 3rd and 4th gear and the car pulled good for only 13psi (he said should be around 340rwhp) We let the car sit when we got back to the parking lot and the idle was stable at 1,000rpms. The car seems reliable/stable when it's driving/running, just once you turn it off or if you stall it, you're going to be stuck there until it cools down.

If I do end up buying the car, I am hoping that it is a simple fix of putting some premix in and driving the car around casually letting the seals "correct" themselves, however, if it isn't that, then I'm willing to pay for the rebuild as it will be reflected in discounting off his asking price for the car.

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

I think I am going to try this. On the last motor I built, I had 90psi on both rotors. I've been running a lot of premix and after 3k miles, I still have 90psi on both rotors. This leads me to believe that the new harder RA Super Seals have not correctly sealed into the housings. Ill keep you all posted on this.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

The buyer and I just agree'd on the price for $11,000 on the car. It has the mods listed on the 1st page along with FEED sideskirts. I go to do all the paperwork and pickup the car tomorrow. I'll try the 500-1000 miles on the car first to see if the compression/seals ends up fixing itself. Should I just leave the Steve Kan tune loaded still or set it to the stock PFC map?

After 500-1000 miles of conservative driving, if that doesn't work, off to the shop to get a rebuild I guess.

FearNoPiston

iTrader: (17)

I would at least save the kan map. 11k seems like a great deal to me though since it is running and has a 500r on it.

TimeMachine

iTrader: (10)

That statement is very accurate.

My "basic rebuild" started at ~$5000 and ended up at ~$15000 when all was said and done (warrantied). You never know what you'll find once it's opened up; doing it right can be costly.

pluto

I have tune enough cars and done enough testing on my own to know what seals will warp at certain a/f, timing, turbo kit combo and boost level. I don't need to validate what I already know. since this car is in Ca, I already know the car was tuned towards the rich side. Timing wise, I already know it wasn't aggressive and even if it was aggressive, it would only run cooler EGT which I validated 10 yrs ago on my car that more timing will run lower EGT. the draw back on more timing would be detonation which could break seals. (not warp seals due to EGT). The video is there for the doubter on timing vs. EGT vs. MBT coming from my friend who is an instructor for EFI university. If anything, it would be you that always seemed to add the "tuning" as the main reason why the engine fail on people who I tuned in the past. I have silence long enough on your bashing so unless you know the facts.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

I'm going to pickup the car today to drive back home (hopefully don't stall or I'm wasting 20-25 minutes just sitting there lol) where I'm going to keep it at my parents house until I get it smogged, registered and insured.

I would like some hints on what to and what not to do to troubleshoot this.

I'm going to end up keeping Kan's map correct? Then some are saying to just drive 500-1000 miles conservatively and keeping out of boost as much as you can to try and warp the seals back to normal? What is next if that doesn't correct the problem?

djseven

iTrader: (56)

If that doesnt correct it, then it is time for a rebuild, not a lot else you can do if it has known low compression.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Ok, if that doesn't correct it, then what can I do with the rebuild to make sure it doesn't happen again? Like I said, the motor was done by a reputable builder and it only lasted 2,000 miles before needing new seals or springs?

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

You seem to have an unending amount of questions and threads; not that it's a bad thing, but the best thing you can do is spend A LOT of time reading this forum. There is ton's of info here and 99% of your questions will be answered with a single search. I've been here for 6 years and still learn something new everyday. The most important asset to have when owning these cars is knowledge.

To answer that last question. Most motor's blow because of a bad tune. Since Steve tuned it, I doubt that was the case. The best thing you can do is make sure that you have all reliability mods. Also, make sure that you run the correct amount of premix. I use 6oz per tank. You should also check all fluids AT LEAST once a week. I also monitor all gauges while driving and have multiple gauges sometimes for the same reading but tapped into different areas of the motor. This has saved me from over heating more then once. Good luck.

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

So some people are saying use premix and some are saying not to. I asked the builder if he used any premix and he said that it is not needed as it is provided by the omp or something like that, I couldn't really make it out. He said there should be no need.

pluto

if the OMP is working properly, there's no need for premix. The real question you should ask from the builder is why would only one rotor having low compression. It's something mechanical that is causing it (injector, porting, seals, rotor housing... etc). Even if you get the compression back up by driving 500 miles or so, it will go back down the minute you get on it.

TRWeiss1

iTrader: (20)

Definitely sounds like you've got some sort of seal issue my friend...When I was having hot start issues my corner seal springs had failed, and compression was down.

You're probably going to have to have the motor pulled to find and correct the part(s) that has/have failed...

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

^^What caused your corner seal spring failure?

WaachBack

iTrader: (21)

I have no OMP. If you have no OMP you NEED to run premix. I also know some people who run pre mix with the OMP, but like mentioned, it is not needed.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Whether running both being 'needed' is debatable. I have a working OMP and have run pre-mix on top of that for many years. The stock OMP is great.......for a stock 220 rwhp FD

For any performance builds, I recommend they run 4-6 oz's premix per full tank of fuel in addition to their working OMP.

FearNoPiston

iTrader: (17)

I am going to run the RA oil adapter to feed two stroke to the engine to keep carbon build up down and I am also going to premix a little in the gas tank just for added protection. You can also get an adjuster that will allow you to change the amount being fed to the engine from RA.

FearNoPiston

iTrader: (17)

Rich, are you running the RA adapter or are you just letting it run how it does factory along with your premix in the tank?

HardHitter

iTrader: (4)

Well, I just drove the car home and I'm loving it! Car started up after we left the credit union (after about 30 minutes from parking it) and it idled, drove, and boosted fine. Here are some pictures, ended up picking the car up for less than $11,000, even if I need to do the $3,500 replacement of seals that I was quoted by my builder. It will be my fun weekend/project car to enjoy.

After 500-1000 miles of driving, if the seals don't wear back, then do you guys think I should go with the 3mm apex seals still or go with oem 2mm? It seems that the 2mm apex seals have better success?









And here is a picture of the FEED skirts and water injection kit along with the original owners manual, all the documentation/receipts from the first owner and all the documentation/receipts from the motor/single turbo build from the second owner.

GreatShamanGT

iTrader: (9)

If his car how has 3mm seals, you can't go back to 2mm unless you get new rotors.