Fritz Flynn

iTrader: (263)

The Elise is a nice car but WAY way overpriced. Just buy a nice spec miata that's streetable for 25k and you have the same car hehe

The new Z06 is also very nice but like the current Z it's probably too bulky and heavy feeling. The susp and most everthing else on the car is dated. I know I know they did some neat stuff with the weight savings etc... but it's still a boring build and probably a boring drive.

The next FD should be around 2800lbs or less with 500 hp. Now with that goal in mind just turn the Mazda engineers loose to let them do what they do best which is to make it light, make it handle, and most importantly make it fun to drive.

However in the mean time I'll just keep keeping on with my FDs, yeah BABY Hoorahh, Hoorahh my track DAWG. I can't wait to pass my first well driven c6 Z06 with you right on my ***

sonix7

Yeah most of us are older on this forum. Thank god. I am still younger but 31 is a mature age I think. I like what Fritz is saying, it should be in that price range and make it a super car. Give the rotary a new image, power and finese and still be in that gas mileage and reliabilty range as the rest of them. The Lotus and those other cars can't have a large base of buyers so it doesn't have to sell like the production models of less quality. nobody's get rid of the FD but Damn I would like to see it evolve and get the recognition we all know it so rightfully deserves. We want them to know why they should jump in the ring with the Z06 and cars in that class. Innovation is what its all about.

Julian

iTrader: (14)

The RX-7 name is not dead. The name stands alone side the 911 as the most successful race car. Is a shame that the new 3-rotor GT race car is an RX-8, when it could have been a 7 but it id not over. Mazda has produced other RX numbers side by side before. What ypu are day dreaming about is to get a great car for 40,000. That was about what my FD cost me in 95. If they make a Z06 beater, which means it also beats a Viper, Ford GT and Ferrari 360 then I will find the money to buy it, plus keep my FB and FD

ptrhahn

iTrader: (9)

I guess to be fair I need to drive a Z06 (C5 or C6). The only late model vette i've driven is a regular C5, and it felt like a truck. When I rode in my friend's Elise, it was the only car i've ever been in that felt sharper than the 7 (well, except the Formula Ford I drove at Skip Barber).

Kento

That would really be their only alternative, in my opinion. A new RX-7 would have to distinguish itself to the general public from the RX-8, and the higher price tag would be part of that. Mazda knows that the RX-7 badge brings a certain performance expectation with it, and to not be more than competitive with the latest sports cars in that price range would doom it to a quick failure in the showrooms. To attempt anything less in the current marketplace would be a grave mistake, and Mazda can ill afford one of those at this stage in the company's financial history.

YoshiFD3S

iTrader: (19)

I just turned 20 and I've owned a ~300rwhp Turbo II and now I just got my '93 Touring FD..

>_>

Age?

o_O

As much as we all love rotary, if just the engine were the only love, then many of us would probably still drive 2nd gens, seeing as how the 13BT's, at least in my opinion, are more reliable than the 13B-REW's...

It's the way the car looks, man.

Sexy is sexy, and FD's...are still sexy to this day. I have many people asking me if the car is new, now that is a statement.

I've seen the little, like, concept drawing/picture of what a new RX-7 would look like. I'm sure you guys have seen it, a few of you have it as your avatar. The red one. Someone wanna upload that pic for us all?

SiKoPaThX

iTrader: (2)

Thank god someone can read between the lines and realize what I'm ACTUALLY trying to say!

jd to rescue

iTrader: (3)

I realize that alot of people on this forum think they are quite sophisticated about the workings of a rotary engine and as a forum made up of owners of a particular make it is a very sophisticated group. That being said, however, it is very evident in the market these days, the margin the 7 once held over other makes is narrowing. As a result, if the 7 is to remain a car of distinction, the technology needs to advance. There is only so much performance you can tap out of a 13B REW and then the next new thing is going to be required. Hence, if the next new thing is to happen, it is really going to require those brilliant engineers at Mazda to make it happen. And the only way to motivate that bunch is to develop the next new 7. There is no reason that Mazda cannot produce a 2500 lb., 350 to 400 hp 7 in the price range of a Z06, and that is the segment the car should be aiming for. The FD is all the proof that Mazda needs to realize that a poor man's sports car only leads to a lot of misery at the bottom line. I am truly glad they made the FD an affordable sports car, do not get me wrong, but it made no sense to Mazda's bottom line.

Kento

Hate to say this, but there is...FoMoCo controls Mazda's purse strings...

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

He's right, I don't think Ford will let Mazda have a prestige car that makes a laughing stock out of a GT. I mean, the last time Mazda had trouble their bank was saying, "It's all the rotary's fault so we're not fund another, it's all the rotary's fault so we're not going to fund another, it's all... whoa, we're losing too much money on you. Build a rotary and save yourself from going bankrupt." Thus the RX-7 was born.

Now they're saying, "Mazda can't keep pumping out sports cars," still implying that they aren't a viable market. I think the only thing that will bring another '7 is another marketing crisis at Mazda. The crisis will be blamed on the '8 regardless. But with the Miata that ain't going to happen any time soon. A hike in gas prices would help, though. That might get them to force Mazda to discontinue the '8 and the Miata, soon threatening Mazda with bankruptcy again. Then Ford's only option to bail Mazda out would be another nice rotary.

I think Mazda's only way to save themselves would be a rotary hybrid. Making it lighter than everything else with a high compression engine (i.e., the Renesis) would knock the sox of everyone else in mileage. The thing that used to limit the rotary's mileage was its low compression ratio. Now the only obstacle is the same one piston's get: it's too big. I'd say V7 size. Oh, and it's sports tuned. That certainly doesn't help.

quicksilver_rx7

Well, Mazda could always build the RX-7 in limited production (with a 3-rotor) and make it become super-car status (price tag included). That's really the way the 3rd gen should have been in the first place, to have built it right. Mazda had to cut too many corners to keep it in the price range it was in, not to mention that they put an irrepairable gouge in the hull of the corporate ship (and just about sank the damn thing) in the process.

The real problem is the fact that Mazda is not profitable enough (unlike Toyota & Honda) to afford the loss that most companies incur when building a "flagship sportscar". And you can bet on the fact that Ford will probably not want to incur those costs themselves. So just hang on to your current model and be happy. Otherwise, have some kids and sell the car then go cut your ***** off.

jd to rescue

iTrader: (3)

Last time I checked, FoMoCo had a substantial ownership interest in a little car company called Aston Martin. Aston Martin's latest renderings (Vanquish, DB9, etc.) have been some of the most beautiful and well designed cars Aston has delivered in decades.

tsmysak1

I don't think the success of a new 7 would be dependent much at all on the type of engine. I think it would be based on three things.

1) Body Style
2) Power Rating
3) Reliability

Reason being is that actually the rotary engine hurts the sales of the car, and I think you could prove it on the RX-8's performance so far (pretty low - will try to get actual numbers). Now, NA versions historically seem to do very well. It is the TT that kills them. They need to get over this hump and produce a high horsepower car that is reliable, i.e. power rating. If you are going to compete with the highly successful vette, then you will need comparable power and performance. Handling will only make up part of the difference.

The body style is the eye catcher. Frankly the 7 is downright hard to beat. If you produced it as is, there would be a reasonable market even today 10 years after it was last made. Hmmm...says something about it...

Now consider GM which is on the ropes big time. No styling and no sales. Their cars suck and that is why DCx is not in the same boat with them. Ford is looking at closing five plants and I think (IMO) that it has a lot to do with **** poor appeal. GM ends up selling off their products to the rental fleets and this drives the re-sale price through the basement. The result: Very high cost of ownership and that is why the Japenese cars are so much higher in demand. You can put 100,000 miles on an accord and still sell it for a pile of cash. In some areas, the time to sell is one day!!

So it has to look good (which may be hard to top) and it has to be reliable so the value stays with it. (The Durango proves this point). And... it has to up to date with the trend today.... meaning it needs something under the hood.

Kento

Well, that's basically the sales requirements of any two-seater sports car...
It doesn't matter what type of engine is under the hood, if it doesn't produce comparable power to the market competition, it's not going to sell very well. The rotary really has nothing to do with it; as I stated before, a good portion (probably a majority, even) of the RX-8 buyers have no knowledge of the rotary or its history.
That's because they could be produced very cheaply (leading to lower sticker price) since they didn't have all of the expensive components and R&D of the FD, and they didn't have to contend with ever-stricter emissions regulations.
Kills what? The FD is no longer produced...
You think?

Julian

iTrader: (14)

The FD is not what almost sank Mazda and gave FoMoCo control. Mazda made a push in the early 90's to modernize all their plants with a novel concept such that an assembly line could produce multiple car models in line rather than dedicated lines. In the long run this should be a cost savings as changeover is cheaper, however their timing was terrible .. The Japanese economy took a nose dive cutting car demand and the same time these capital costs and increase capacity came on stream. The FD would have been killed world wide if it was such a drain, besides with so few FD's sold, even and outrageous warranty cost of 50K per car would have been peanuts even for a cash strapped company.

Mazda modeled the 1st Miata after the '60 Lotus Elan, they modeled the FD after the Espirt ..if Ford lets them they could provided a 2500-2600 lb 350 HP na or 400 HP turbo great sports car.

Someone stated Ford lets Aston Martin build killer cars, but do remember thaey also cost a lot more than a Ford GT. At one point in Fords Mazda history, Ford pulled Mazda, Jaguar and Aston Martin out of racing because only a Mustang could carry the corporation in pro racing; they did back down from that stance but now with the GT they may again feel that LeMans belongs to Ford not one of its three daugthers each that has a winning history.

RE-Amemiya7

I doubt the seven will come back with the Rx-8 inplace. Mazda cant keep launching sportscars. Mazda will canabolize its own sales, its a bad business move.

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

They will not make another RX-7. They have had huge success with the RX-8. They will NOT make another turbocharged rotary, and if you have to ask why they won't, smack yourself in the face right now.

I would love to see a Renesis powered Miata, or a Renesis powered B-series truck. Why in the **** would you go back in time? You always look forward.

efinimazda

iTrader: (29)

All I know is that if Mazda makes another FD, I'll never be able to move from my parents house... damn obsessive disorder.
I think what makes these cars legendary is that there are so few, lets keep it that way

trini

iTrader: (2)

exactly

YELLOWGSLSE

iTrader: (7)

The idea of a new Rx-7 IS looking foward. Turbo or not, it would be a move up from the FD. It's just common sense. Since when has Mazda moved backward with an new generation of a car? BTW, I have some issues of Rotary Rocket magazine from the early '80's in which First gen owners wanted the 2nd gen (which hadn't even been designed yet) to basically be a first gen body with more power, ya know, because they didn't want mazda to mess with "perfection". And why is it that if Mazda hasn't ruled out a new 7, so many "experts" on this forum have? Why don't we just wait and see (hope)?

rowtareh?

iTrader: (1)

And how many people on this forum would actually buy it? If it WERE 20b powered? Turbo'd or not? Or even a typical 1.3L TT motor. Just like the 13b-REW. But honestly, they won't do this. Why would they spend so much money on a car so a bunch of internet forum freaks can relive the glory days?

I think it would be a horrible move on Mazda's part in my opinion. They need to keep doing what they are doing, and they are doing a great job also. Keep making the RX-8.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see Mazda make another rotary powered vehicle, but just making it have the "infamous" name of RX-7 is just silly.

Kento

Quite a few would be trying to find a way, I'd imagine...
What does this forum have to do with a 4th-gen RX-7? What we say or do here won't have any real effect on whether it gets built or not. What will have an effect is whether FoMoCo/Mazda believes the time is right for one.
Keep making a car that forced the company to offer rebates because it didn't live up to original horsepower claims? A car that with handling that many like, but with a midrange-weak engine that many don't?
Apparently Nissan figures it's worth it to spend the money to build a new GTR, and they're apparently not going to diddle around with the powerplant...
Tell that to the company engineers, then. They were the ones quoted as saying that if they were to build another RX-7 that it would have to measure up to the performance reputation of the moniker, not anyone here...

AnOsA

also something to think on... mazda is now majority owned by ford as you guys know. when therx7 was made it was still mazda. so regardless.... it would be a very different product then.

RX7UP

IMO.... Mazda should make engine options for all their cars.... Piston or rotary... I also believe that Mazda should make a new RX7, 450hp and 2,800 lbs and a $65,000 price tag..... (Using there best engineers ofcourse)

This will make the car profitable and the FD will hold its value for a while......

Dwayne

PS. Check my sig... Help John!

Xeros

Unless the the next gen rotary power plant can get over our current gen power plant problems, and the weak performance of the RX-8, which don't get me wrong is steadily getting better by the year if you keep up with the new builds. But it makes me think they might just haul the RX-8 all the way and make it compete with 4doors like the STi and EVO...woudl it be smart I dunno, would I rather see a new 7...yes...but i would much rather see a 20b with 4 rotars not 3 with ITBs....Why I believe a design like this would allow more torque to be built and a higher redline and better response with the ITBs turbo charged or not. That also being said there isn't enough R&D into this engine...sure its been around for a while but realistically how much R&D was put into it. You can't even turbo it properly becasue of the exhuast ports . Would I want it turboed...ONLY if it isnt sequential but can boost fully at around 2700-3000 rpm and not kiss its own *** good bye with poor design (solenoids and all that trash that pisses me off daily about mine) and durability. The tranny woudl also have to be a brand new durbale 6 speed with better ratios than the RX-8's big complaint form a lot of people that review the car. Adn it shoudl ONLy be offered in manual liek the s2000...no more bs automatics, the car was a sports car and shoudl remian so forever, why waste the cash on BS autos? Can't handle stick then step off munchkin. The more i look at the RX-8 the more I am okay with the design going in that direction but I still think it needs to be slimmer vertically, sit lower, and the rear end needs a bit more work. If it comes turbo charged I belive it needs to learn from tuner and people feed back as far as design and problems go such as the v mount set up much larger stock dual oil coolers, better fuel lines, FPSs that dont bust and fir eup an engine. Something like this should then be offered stock on the new 7 (all aluminum as well like the EVO and STi, no more plastic BS!) no matter what the cost. And no more cracker jack box ecus either damn it. Also if they release it they need to make it out handle a skyline and corvette as well. The new skyline will be a beast, easily a corvette killer....a nismo version one woudl simply rape raods from the east to the west. The problem is now that the rotary engine has a pretty shitty rep with a lot of peopel by now with all the over heating apex seals blowing, low torque numbers and what not (i hear this a lot from the guys that go LS-1 **** em i say but I can't help but wonder how tuneable the rotary is). That being said when you think abotu its simplicity is nice and all with our engine but it also makes it harder to get power out of it. Whats the most we can do when you think about it...port, more fuel, timing, and more boost....right well okay now thnk about all that you can do to increase power on a piston engine.....kind of sad but awsoem at the same time, with just some porting proper ecu tunning and a bigger turbo we can achieve 500hp....sweet...but at the sametime it just seems to limit us as well you know, we can't achieve all that much torque, we can't really raise our compression much more and go for higher red lines with a purpose...sure technically the rotary shouldn't have a red line...but it does....(maybe its just me feeling a little down from what all those LS1 punks are saying and doubting my own car lately...) I believe mazda has the power to do something awsome liek this to build a power house, but when you think about it soo does an freaking company given enough cash. Also, in term sof our RWD setup...if you look at tsukuba time attacks these days what kind of cars are making the fast times around that damned track? AWD turbo charged cars not RWD...thats not to say you couldn't create a RWD car that goes and performs faster, help Super GT cars are just proof of that, but how much money tunning and what not is needed to do soo...Also emissions and fuel econemy...right...okay how many freakign cats do we need to pass emissions? 2 one with an air pump...right...fuel econemy...you know sure we have seen numbers as high as 28mpg hwy form certain tuners in this community form what I have read....but form the sounds of it if everyone really expected a 400hp RX-7 I HIGHLY DOUBT it woudl pass both aspects. And what KEnto was saying with the RX-8 cryin wolf with power numbers....I woudld expect mazda to give me 400hp to the wheel this time no more to the fly wheel BS!!! But People are right it would have to be in the 60k range if we wanted it done right! Could that be done??? If only 200 units a year world wide were made so that there is minimal loss and the car has a uber sports car status like the NSX or skyline or The Spirit R type A. Well that being said skyline production was much higher, but I think we all understand....the RX-7 can not be another in the middle japanese sports car it has to go to the extremes like the Skyline if it wants to be noticed and done right. But I am sure that mazda will be more likely to chill out and go with the RX-8 4 door battle approach. So the question is does Mazda have it in them to go to the extremes and will the ******* at FORD let em...I doubt it they're too afraid of letting thier sister company have abetter car then thier POS Mustang again. Seeing as how most people prefer a good import over a POS domestic...( new corvette and GT not included in this statement haha) Aston martin doesn't count...they have been making badass super cars form day one, its what they do, plus ford profits off this and learns form them and applies it to their cars as well. But to be shown up by thier sister company that is in the same marekt? Get real this woudl have to be secretly done without FORD knowing and then giving them a swift kick in the nuts when they bring it out. Which is totallllly unreal and we allll know it. Maybe if we all write to FORD asking it to show some ***** and **** em off to the point where they say sure we will let them do it fair and square hell it might even force ford to make a decent mid class sports car out of the mustang! Again highly unrealistic...wow I am ranter...but what can I say I love talkin about htis subject. Love reading what everyone else puts down becasue it is all quite valid and intrestign to read. Oh as far as perfection goes...HAHAHA right the FD perfect.....sure in the perfect FD world...don't get me wrong I too think it is unbeatable when doen "RIGHT" but lets all be real how often do some peopel have to replace thier engine...whats the farthest a turbo charged FD has gone without having a melt down problem of some sort...why are we called the 60k mile engine? (sure ignorance and bs talk has soemthing to do with all of it, but even BS liek this isn't too far from the truth...) Sure apart of me wants to have faith in Mazda still but it's liek having faith in that kid that everyone called a genius all the time but only shinned 30% of the time even though he shinned 400% brighter then the rest...it was only that often and what are the chances of him doing it again you know after all the failures he had after that....Mazda just seems mediocre now and laid back...its a wounded lion nowin my opinion thats been licking its scars for quite sometime now, even better hes been tammed by a circus (ford) and it just isnt going to be the same anymore until its let back out into the wild again.