I have a 94 Touring with Battery Relocation, PFC, and a Python 990 Security System with keyless entry. I also did GoodFella's Starter Relay bypass thing to try to get rid of the car not wanting to turn over then found it to be a bad starter.

This morning I went out to my car, unlocked it with the keyless. Everything inside the car was working perfectly fine. The interior lights turned on, the car's alarm was disabled, ect. The battery was definitely not dead. As I went to start the car, as soon as the starter tried to turn over once, everything electrical in the car died completely. No more interior lights, no more alarm, nothing. I have no clue where to even begin to find what is going on and was seeing if anyone had any ideas as to what it might be.

I was told earlier today that there was a common problem with aftermarket security systems conflicting with factory ones and causing ignition lockouts. However, he was saying he never had the problem with all the electronics ceasing to function, only the ignition system.

I checked the main fuse and it does not seem to be blown, I checked the battery connections not only at the fuse box but at the battery itself. They were both fine. I believe the ground to chassis is also fine but there might be something I am over looking.

Just to be sure, I tried jumping the car, nothing. Any thoughts on things I could check and how would be a great help. Thank you everyone in advance for any help whatsoever.

 

That's usually a weak battery. I've seen that many times in cars with weak or dying batteries, turn the key On, you're OK, as soon as you start pulling some major amps for the starter the battery gags itself.

Swap in a known good battery and see what you get.

Dale

 

I completely forgot to say, I have an Optima Red Top. The battery is charged at least it was pulling 13.5-14 volts last night consistantly. I even hooked up my roommates car to it to be completely sure that the battery was not the problem. And there was no change? I can check again to be sure though? Thanks for the reply though. Again, all help and suggestions are greatly appreciated.

 

Well if the battery is good then I would start looking at ground points. The main one from the negative battery to the chassis point. Its dark here so I can not check and see where it is but just follow the wire back.

Let us know what you find


Mike

 

The negative to chassis is grounded to the drivers side shock tower. I checked that and it seems fine? I could always try pulling it off, cleaning the contact point and putting it back on. But that will have to wait till tomorrow. I am also going to walk over to autozone down the street tomorrow and just in case replace the main fuse and stuff as well as get a test light to start testing fuses lol.

 

a dead or low battery can show 12-13 amps, but has no amperage. this could be the problem.

also you said you hooked up your friends car and it didn't help. if you used jumper cables make sure they are high quality. with a battery that low cables thinner than 6Gauge probably won't be enough

Good luck

 

K well maybe try getting a buddy to check the voltage at the battery while you try and crank the car. You could also try checking the voltage at the main fuse while cranking.

Keep us informed.

Mike

 

Thank you guys for your suggestions. I have a question though, if the battery is weak or dying and it went out like Dale Clark said, would it be as if there is no power at all, almost like the battery is not connected at all? I have had batteries go dead and the lights and stuff inside the car would still work, but be dimmer, then they would start going out when I tried cranking the car. In this situation its like there is nothing at all. I am not doubting that this could be, I have just never experienced it.

Robert

 

I have experienced this. I had a bad battery (Odyssey) that seemed just fine (checked out with volts, etc.) and then acted just as you describe. Couldn't jump it either. Replaced it an never looked back.

 

Hey David! Its good to hear from you and I will try switching it out with a different battery just to be sure. Hows the car doing and did you ever get that stuff with the alternator figured out?

Robert

 

If you access to a good multimeter you can have a friend check amps while you crank the car. This is the best way to do a load test on the battery. Like others said it could be sitting at 13+ volts but not be able to hold a load (amps). You can also watch volts, too.

If you have a loose power connection somewhere they can sometimes "jump" when you put amps through them, causing them to loose a connection, so double check all your battery connections and grounds.

It could also be a fuse that blew, sometimes they can be a real PITA to check visually- once again with a multimeter you can set it to continuity and listen for the beep when testing the fuse to make sure it's intact.

 

Man, the easiest thing to do would be pull the battery and take it to your local auto parts store. All he ones i know of do free battery testing. make sure and get a print out or watch the guy though :/

 

Using your multimeter, pull a few relevant fuses and check for voltage at the terminals where the fuses plug into. Check the factory diagram to see which fuses should have power depending on ignition key position.

I agree it would be a good idea to check the battery voltage when cranking also.

 

Hey Robert, didn't know this was you. Yes, the alternator problem is solved. Rewired the fuel pumps and put in a 200 amp uber expensive alternator. Problem solved. I am picking the car back up from Kilo on Saturday where it's been undergoing a few last minute DGRRX items.

 

Thats good to hear, how much did you put down now that you were able to tune it correctly?

As an update, I actually went and borrowed a brand new battery from the place that is checking my battery for warranty replacement, hooked it up, no change. I will know probably tomorrow once I pick up the battery as just incase I replaced the head fuse because it looked a little darker, not seperated, but just wanted to be sure. I also replaced the 120amp main fuse.

I will say when I put the new battery in, I did hear a click however, but nothing from there. Then another click when I pulled it back off. Any thoughts on what this might be?

But either way, I am gonna get the car towed up to a shop that does alot of work on the car and let them fool with it if its not the main fuse and stuff, because I don't have the know how, time, or tools to really go through and do all the diagnostics and fixes you know beyond changing a battery or fuse.

I know I should try myself, but I am packing up to move this week and the car has to be ready to go by this weekend.

I hope to be able to be up there for DGRR. I will let you know, its next month correct? Or am I wrong in my thinking?

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and I hope I can get it figured out.

Robert

 

We made 555 WHP at 12 PSI. If I get to dyno it this weekend, we're turning up boost to 18 PSI to see what happens. Should be fun.

DGRRX is April 16th - 18th. Here is a link:

http://dealsgaprotaryrally.com/registration.html

We're caravaning on up he Thursday before and coming back on Sunday. A group from Orlando is coming up. Here is another link with this:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=9618

 

Same thing happened to a friend's FD. Went to check the circuit opening relay. Pulled it out, walah, immedately power came back to the car. (It's the relay in front of the Main relay if i remembered correct off top of my head) However we had a jumper cable connected to his X5 (we tried jump starting it) But no power prior to remove the circuit opening relay. Right after removing it. Power came back (then replugged the relay back in). Went into the car, and crank and started the car immediately.

Give that a try. Afterthat, I've checked the resistance on that Circuit opening relay, it was something like 65kOhms, which was robbing a whole lot of power preventing the weak battery from providing electricity to the rest of the car even with the jumper cables connected.

Let us know, and good luck.

-AzEKnightz

 

Check the fuses and relay i've highlighted in red and let us know the results.

sry for double posting

 

The car is now up at the shop, I am gonna print that stuff out and take it up there, and have them check all of those just in case.

They did find though that my power wire going from the main fuse block to the battery was shorting to the chassis, that was what was causing my problem. The battery was at 12 volts or so, but at the front of the car, it ws not making it to the fuse block. They hooked a jump box to the mian fuse block and it all came back to life, car started up just fine. They are putting in a new power wire and ground wire tomorrow once they get in and we will see how it all goes.

And don't worry about double posting dude. I would have to get those relays directly through mazda correct? Or no?

 

Glad it is something simple and sounds like you will be back on the road in no time. FYI - I am scheduled to pick up the car this Saturday from Kilo (new location) and it might include a little spin on the dyno

 

ahh, awesome. So no power to the main fuse box. =) Glad that they figured that out. Doing the basics are always the best way to diagnostic most of the time.

-AzeKnightz

 

David, thats awesome! I would love to see the car before I go. I am currently packing and about to head up to the shop to check on the car and see how everything is going. Where is Kilo's new shop? I didn't know he moved. If schedule permits, I would love to come and see the dyno session. I will have to play it by ear though. I am moving back up to Atlanta this week, so if I am not able to see you before hand, let me know when you guys are coming up through Atlanta, if I am going to DGRR I might even be able to jump in with you guys on your caravan?

AzEKnightz, yeah, I got to the shop to drop it off and reconnected the negative cable and the power came back, they went to start it, died again just like before. Also I had put on the Rotary Extreme Harness Bar the night before, great piece by the way, and yesterday when I went to take it off or even tighten it, the bar was sparking where it was meeting the stock strut tower bar location, cause the battery was grounded to chassis at the driver side shock tower.

They got on it as soon as I got there, and had it figured out in a matter of about 10-20 minutes exactly what it was. They would have had it back on the road yesterday, but NAPA didn't deliver the wire they asked for with their daily delivery.

I am just glad we were able to get the car there and it was something they were able to figure out quick so I would be able to have the car back to me so I could move.

While the car is up there they are doing a full alignment and corner balance, I will post about that later in the South East forums with a review of it.

 

Kilo's new location is:

1110 Quotation Ct
St. Cloud FL 34772-5432

His telephone number is the same: 407.438.5467

He's tripled his space and it is quite nice. Thinking about putting together a BBQ event at his shop in the next month or so.

As for DGRRX, we're not going through Atlanta - we avoid it like the plague because of the traffic hassle. We shoot up I95 and cut across SC via I26.

 

good to hear ya got her fixed!

 

An update for everyone. The car is still out of commision and it is found the problem is a whole lot worse than previously thought. Even though, it is still the same diagnosis. There is a power grounded out SOMEWHERE. The power wire was replaced and to test it, we were recieving 12 volts at the end of the power wire. As soon as the wire was pressed to the main fuse block, it lost all voltage, there is a short somewhere. And to continue the diagnosis the main fuse block was disconnected from the main relay box next to it and 12 volts was received at the main fuse block. So there is something in that block as AzEKnightz was saying. But I will have them check those relays and such.