StavFC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Gg6M4iQQQ

curacaosfinest

iTrader: (12)

wish it still had 13b in it but AWD FD?? badasss

StavFC

Skyline GT-R based transmission.

Thing is, if it had a 13B rather than the 2ltr SR20 (TBH, im not normally an SR fan at all!), would it have 590lbft?

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

No. Our engines will never make more torque than hp.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

i dont really understand the benefit of the awd besides no tire spin out of turns especially when the fd usually dominates awd's in rwd.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Fastest lap at tsukuba is an evo. The fd is I think 3rd or 4th fastest.

StavFC

I'm not so sure you know. I mean, aside from this rallycross one SR's aren't exactly known for torque, its a 2ltr afterall, but its been done. Same as WRC 2ltrs with coming on 600lbft but just around 300bhp.

With enough boost, and im talking most likely 3bar+ at peak, fairly conservative ports, and a turbo that doesnt spool too late, and I don't see why it couldn't be done on a 13B. The trick would be making it hold together at the boost it would need.

The engine in the video is just 2ltr, and the top 2ltrs in this class in Rallycross (Julian Godfrey build Cosworth YBs) are pushing out almost 700lbft!
(The power this car has is on the limit of what they have due to the 45mm inlet restrictors they have to run, in fact the aformentioned YBs actually only claim 450bhp, flywheel).

If only I was rich enough to have the spare cash to try it. As ever...

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

That's an interesting theory. But its just that, a theory.

If it can be done why wont people do it?

Or do they like making peak torque at 7000rpm?

I mean that's the reason why people leave their stock seq, because of that low end torque, because a rotary doesn't have any.

If more torque can be made, engine builders will offer it to customers, they will offer It to their own rotary powered cars.

Fact is, they can't and that's why we can't.

cptpain

iTrader: (1)

That was true up until last year.

The HKS Cyber Evo went 55 and then 54 seconds.....

This FD has beat that record to a 53 second lap.

The absolute fastest lap time at Tsukuba is by the ARTA NSX at 51 seconds driven by Tsuchiya.

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kd-AnG3LYUg[/yt]

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

More torque than horsepower just means the engine has run out of power by 5,200rpm and happens on all the time on FC RX-7s with stock turbos.

Best torque "curve" I have ever seen on a 13B was Ernie T's semi p-port drag motor. 500+ ft/lbs with 450+ ft/lbs from 5,500rpm to 9,500rm.

Torque at higher rpm equals more torque at the wheels for any given vehicle speed since you have gear reduction multiplying torque.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

Well yea i mean not every car can be best at everything. But comparing apples to apples also. this current fd is not really a fd anymore its a Frankenstein and you can do that to any car.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Its still an fd chassis with a rotary. It just has super lightweight diet and seq gearbox. Its still an fd.

I just mentioned it cause you said rwd (fd) dominates awd.

But other guy said nsx has the fastest lap time. 51 is incredible.

And I thought 56-57 range was nuts.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

i thought this car doesnt have the rotary?
51 is crazy lol

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

Lol it doesn't. I was talking about the tsukuba thing about the evo being faster than an fd.

silverfdturbo6port

iTrader: (26)

oh yea lol

Liborek

This. 45+ psi should do it.

Torque is just function of airflow per cycle. Apply 4:1 PR to what 13B 4 port can make as NA with fuel that allows it and it will do it.

Do you know many people running such boost pressures? Otherwise there is no reason why it couldnīt be done - not taking into account structural strenght of engine itself since not many people have knowledge at what level of torque 13B fall apart.

13B geometry has natural torque peak aroud 6000 rpms. Porting does change it, But fact remains the same that this is operating speed where most torque can be produced be it due to VE or BSFC efficiency.

Port designs, intake manifolds, turbine sizing etc. change shape of the torque curve and absolute number to certain extend. But otherwise, boost = torque. Again, do you know many people running more than 15, 20 psi? This is limiting factor.

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

I love how people will always use scientific explanations and theories to gain side in a certain argument. lol


Torque is also in correlaton with RPMs, and HP is based on torque (so to speak). I dont know if your argument is saying rotaries CANT make big torque numbers (which i didnt say) or the fact that you're saying a rotary engine can produce more torque than HP, in which case i want to see proof because im curious.

The fact you're confident enough to say it WILL DO IT, you should have numbers/vids/spec sheets to show for it.

Thats not the argument here, we're not talking about longevity, thats an entirely different subject in itself. We're talking about "CANT A ROTARY ENGINE MAKE MORE TORQUE THAN HP?"

Obviously i was being sarcastic, im really saying it makes peak torque way to high in the rev band. @ 6000rpm? For a street car thats not ideal. On the race track? Yeah i guess its sufficient. If you can shift your *** off so you dont fall out of the power/torque band.

My other car has a V8, it makes peak torque @ 4000rpm. 400ft lbs of neck snapping torque. Thats stock too lol

THATS IDEAL for the street. Because i dont have to rev the **** out of my engine to get going in a high pace city traffic.


Of course, boost is torque. I never said boost wasnt torque. You're constantly side tracking this argument.

The question was can a rotary engine make MORE torque than HP? Say 350ft lbs and 321HP???

I dont think so.

Thanks

FYI: I love your women SOOOOO much, you have no idea. Im in love with czech women. I wanna go to prague to see big brother

Liborek

Such question is pretty stupid IMO. Although HP and torque are in direct correlation, they are not the same thing, so we canīt sompare them Nonetheless there is Autox FD in dyno section with 350ft lbs by 4000 rpms. 300 HP by 4500... Unfortunately peak power is 360 HP so it doesnīt do what you are asking

Point is, that powerband is there. Power and torque number on its own and even with rpm point where it happens doesnīt tell much. Area under the curve does.

To answer the question, yes, anytime you make peak power before 5252 rpms. But why give up so much power above just to make the point? Its stupid


Honestly, I didnīt know about big brother till someone else asked me about it over here Prague is attractive for turists, but really, really nice womans are in south east of republic

1QWIK7

iTrader: (33)

lol its not stupid because you said it can do it. I wanna see.

I dont doubt you torque numbers @ 4000, or even 3000rpms. The main question was can the rotary engine produce more torque over hp? It cant.

Area under the curve is exactly right. Since most running rx7s make their peak torque above 6000, thats not ideal. Whether they make BOOST @ 3500,4000 rpm etc, it wont be peak torque/power til 6k+. Thats how our engines produce its power efficiency.

Thats all i was saying.



Thanks for the heads up. Now i know where to go when i visit there. I have to before i die, i just have to. Your women are like goddesses in my eyes lol. Seriously no joke.

StavFC

I think the point was, it would be great to see someone build a big boost but early spooling rotary, ie whatever bhp level, but 400lbft+ by 3500rpm, would be awesome to drive.
My old FC engine with a T04E running 23psi was awesome to drive from 3.5k up thanks to all the torque the boost gave (at .8 it was the usual nothing till 4.5, but only really quick upwards of 6k), so I'd love to know what one hitting more than that at similar rpm would feel like.

Its commonly done in some 2ltr tuning scenes, where anything less than about 400lbft when you're at 400bhp is considering low torque, and 30psi+ peak boost is the norm.

I dont know about you guys though, but I havent the time/money to potentially waste blowing engines to find out, lol.

Earnies drag engine graph is a GREAT example, the moment it hits 2bar (~30psi) boost, blammo, 450lbft. Smaller turbo and milder ports to bring that down a couple of thousand rpm and while peak power isnt as high (though not many of us rev to 10k!) it would be one hell of a ride.