Dying platform??

A 1970 Chevelle SS is a long *dead* platform. So is a 1968 Mustang. Or a 1987 FC RX-7. Or a 1990 Skyline.

Lots of people buy them, modify them, enjoy them, sell them, etc. None of those owners care if their car's platform is "dead" or not.
Look at the auction prices on classic cars (which is what the FD is- a classic 90's supercar) and you will see that passionate people dont give a #$$% about their car's "platform" being unsupported by the manufacturer. They own them because they love the car.

 

Neptune Speed in Huntington Beach

 

20B... mmmm how much does it cost these days?

 

Still ridiculously over priced for what you get. If you do it all yourself MAYBE it becomes justifiable. 2 rotor guys wtih nice setups have proven they can compete with 3 rotors at just about any competition besides the top of the top in drag racing. Even then the 2 rotor isnt that far behind.

Reliability, Im not sure you can really swing that in favor of the the 3 rotor either. Not really apples to apples comparing a NA 3Rotor to a 2 rotor running 30psi+ or 20psi+ on pump gas. Everyone likes to justify things to fit their view point or their decision, but facts are the facts.

There are a couple impressive 3 rotors out there getting it done, but there are a lot more out there with over heating issues, half assed swaps and just overall unimpressive results for the money/effort put forth.

 

im agree with you, its along the lines of a LS swap if you do a half *** job you will have problems. people seem to forget that all motors were designed by humans and all of them have a breaking point. personally after i am done with school and after i get back from basic i will start sourcing for my 20B i expect it to take 2-4 years to complete as i want it done 100% right, but then again i plan on keeping the car forever.

 

You should be disappointed. LS2s aren't 400rwhp. I belive it's 400bhp. That's not earth shatteringly fast. Not slow but certainly not OMG fast.

 

I don't want to bang Pam Anderson, she isn't my type given that she has Hep C and all...

 

There was a time when I was *this* close to putting a LSx into my FD, before I decided to go 3rotor. I had all the swap components and everything. I wanted to go to a more "exotic" dohc v8 as well, and looked into the LT5. The extremely high price to get one, and then availability of parts scared me away. My second choice was the toyota 1UZ 4.0L V8. Those can be had dirt cheap, only real issue it power. If you stay N/A, its quite hard to really put out respectable power.

After typing all of that I sort of find irony in my decision to go N/A 3-rotor, being its issues are exactly the same as I complained about the V8s above.

 

This is not me being a smart *** or trying to be rude, please understand I simply am asking a question.

With that said, would you please explain to me why people choose to go NA 3 Rotor over just keeping the 2 rotor with BNRs sequential or a 2 Rotor with a 58mm Billet turob setup? I just cant understand the draw to the NA 3 rotor. It is slower than a properly setup stock sequential car across the whole power band unless you go to extremes like Logan from Defined. Even with his car you cant argue that the 3 rotor makes any significant torque. I guess I just simply dont understand spending all that money, time and effort for similar results you can get with throwing a full exhaust, water/meth and rechipped ecu on a stock car in a weekend.

What am I missing? Is it the sound and the fact that it is a 3rotor? Admittedly the 2 rotors sound like ****.

 

The 1st gen Camaro is a dead platform, but they're still as desirable as any car on the road.

The FD ain't going nowhere.

 

I cant really give any objective reply to as why a N/A 3-rotor is "better". Just buying a 3-rotor longblock from Japan is ~4k, which then needs torn down and rebuilt. After adding all that you need to make some respectable power, you have a ton of money into it, for what in most cases will be 350-400whp tops. I would never suggest it to anyone as a cheap or easy way to go. For me, it was just all about a passion I had with the engine, stemmed from watching Re-A GT300 FDs. I like N/A engines, the immediate throttle response and linear power-band, combined with the sound of an unrestricted 3-rotor.. for me it was worth the price. That being said, I think you have to give them a bit more credit as far as power. No, theyll never be the animal a high boost 2-rotor can be, but Logans car is making 250+rwtq from like 2500rpm all the way to 10k. My engine will be sideport only so redline will be in the 8500rpm range and probably 375ish whp, but at that point I will go up against any car on stock twins, especially on a track where overheating will be an issue for a boosted car. But as I said , its not for everything and there really is no real reason to go this route other than :

1) Really wanting reliable N/A power, and
2) Wanting to stay rotary.

 

Have I driven one? No. Have I driven several LSX swapped FDS with more torque and power across the power band than a NA 20B? Yes. Was I blown away by the performance of those cars? No. Not knockin the LSX cars here, but until you do full heads/cams at a minimum I dont understand the hype.

Gordon, have you posted graphs of your dyno? Im pretty sure a stock sequential car at 15lbs will have the same powerband or possibly better than your powerband. It would be interesting to overlay the two graphs to see the real difference.

Used 20B longblock(non blown up) $4500.00
-Rebuild and street port to make decent NA Power-$2500.00
-Subframe-$1600.00
-ECU-$1200.00
-Custom header-$1000.00


That is just a start and that is over $10k.

Like I said everyone will argue to try to justify the route they chose, but at the end of the day you have to sit back and look at the numbers. Im not knocking anyone for going that route, I just simply do not understand.

I dont rule out a 20B in my future by any means, but after looking into NA 20B setups years ago I came to the conclusion I can build a very similar power band for a fraction of the cost and headache. Unless it is for race only, I cant understand why people wouldnt throw a quick responding turbon on a 20B and just have an incredible all around power band instead of one similar to a stock FD with $2k worth of modifications.

 

Nice respectable response

 

I'm a little late to the party, I'm not on as often as I would like lately but this discussion has caught my attention. I feel like I'm in a somewhat unique position. I'm a rotary guy, no questions asked. But the vast majority of rx7 owners that I know are v8 owners because that's what most of the cars around here are (yay for NE where the v8 rules).

This is a joke, you find these types of people in both communities. Try meeting the people in real life. I know a quite a few corvette guys that are really great people, tons of fun to hang out with and are really nice to any random person with questions. I've noticed time again both on forums and in real life rotary people with their heads so far up in the clouds that they treat anybody who doesn't know anything about these cars like uneducated children who should "go stick with their v8", it creates this negative stigma against us that results in misconceptions that are demonstrated below.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I, a rotary guy, was welcomed to SevenNotStock (the v8 rx7 event) last year with open arms and a cold beer. I had a great time meeting new people and learning more about the v8 rx7 than in my (admittedly limited) time on the v8 forums. Was I the butt of some rotary jokes? You bet, but it was all in good fun and I knew it and there was no ill-intent. On the flip side a large number of those same guys recounted stories of poor treatment that they received at the hands of "traditional" rx7 owners and felt that they were unwelcome at events such as DGRR and even SevenStock at times.

Another perfect example of the poor treatment that some great folks have received simply for their choice of motor. I preach keeping an open mind everywhere I go because I know that if you can get past the OMG CAR RUINED V8 SWAP, both camps can find stuff that they have in common and I feel they'll ultimately be able to get along. Well for the most part, there's always a few people that will be jerks, but they're usually on the fringe anyways.

 

I'd say in my experience, in real life, the rotary community has been alot better. I have yet to meet a bad rotary guy yet but I can't say the same about most of the other communities. Then again, in both our cases, our sampling size is to small to say anything definitive.

I've never been to 7stock but I've been to DGRR and some other events. I've yet to see this happen. I expected it but have yet to witness or hear it. All the smack talk was done online and in person, everyone was very nice. I think people are pretty good about separating debate and jokes.

 

Id just say get thick skin. No different than Ford vs Chevy,RX7 vs Supra, etc. Performance Car guys are usually competitive by nature, no harm in a little ribbing now and then.

 

Once again, if you are happy that is great. But everyone always talks about torque and the powerband with 20Bs. Seriously look at any Sequenital FD running 14-15lbs and the torque curve from 3k RPMS across the whole sheet is better/higher than a NA 20B. Like I said, everyone will justify their setup but when you look at numbers it is hard to justify the NA 20B.

 

I think, and this is just me spitballing here, this could be a result of the demographics on the forums vs the demographics at the actual events. I look around here and it seems there are more young people posting than older people posting. I would define young here as under 30, maybe pushing it to 35. Old being 50 or 55+. In my experience its the older generations who are more set in their ways and refuse to bend from their preconceived notions. In my admittedly limited experience on the corvette forums it seems to be that more of the posters are the "mid-life crisis" folks or the old school v8 guys (or the c4 loving hillbillies [I kid!])

That's great to hear. DGRR and 7stock are on my list of events to attend, and I for one won't tolerate intolerance.

I have noticed that most of your posts in this thread seem to align with my opinions. Mostly. I truly enjoy finding other like (read: open) minded individuals, it makes for progress rather than stagnation and fighting.

 

Hahahahha

Well... The Rx8 guys still get **** on sometimes hahahaha I'm joking but I'm really not.

 

Most people will state their suggest bhp because its more impressive, its for magazine readers.

Even if it was 350rwhp for his STOCK LS2 FD, thats still very quick for a car that light. Although i dont know of anyone who will do the LS swap to the FD and keep it bone stock. Even an OTR intake and an exhaust will net 30rwhp for these engines. Put on headers and a tune and you're looking at 50rwhp+ for all those mods.

Imagine that, 2500 bucks for 50rwhp.

 

You can gain about 70 rwhp over stock with a sequental FD for less than that.

 

Definitely.

But, now you're making 400rwhp naturally aspirated.

Instead of 325rwhp and having all sorts of the FI problems our cars get. And sequential too? exactly how many FD's have the working sequential system?

lol Come on now.

Or how about for 5500 you can have 550rwhp with a SC for these engines?

Sign me up when i can spend 5500 to get 550rwhp in my rotary.

 

...

 

I dont need to list the problems we get.

This 3rd gen section is proof of that enough.

Im talking more about sequential problems. Troubleshooting?? All the crazy boost patterns?

If it was full proof, people wouldnt convert to non sequential. I mean why would someone go non seq if it wasnt for the sequential problems? Because they like having zero torque to about 4000rpm??

Also please post your 5500 dollar for 550rwhp setup, because if this is true, then i guess 99% of the people here looking for more power are doing it wrong.

 

...