Efini twins or BNR Stage 3's
07-18-06, 03:29 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Well, I see an immense difference. It's simple physics JD. I assumed you were aware of the particulars of Bryan's product (comp/turbine size relative to stock), but please peruse this link:
http://www.bnrturbos.com/3rdGen.htm
Also, there are/have been approximately 13,000 sets of stock twins in the U.S. I don't think Bryan has sold that many sets of turbos. So, more stock twins making 400 rwhp (and I have only heard of three over the years) than BNRs making 400 rwhp is kind of a silly comparison in my opinion.
I made close to 400 rwhp at only 15 psi, and run around the streets at 17-18 psi on pump gas 100% of the time, no 'low' boost stuff. These turbos will withstand roadrace duties at this boost level as well. None of this applies to the stock twins. We're not all drag racers here.
Just wanted to throw in an alternate viewpoint!
take it easy man
,
Rich
http://www.bnrturbos.com/3rdGen.htm
Also, there are/have been approximately 13,000 sets of stock twins in the U.S. I don't think Bryan has sold that many sets of turbos. So, more stock twins making 400 rwhp (and I have only heard of three over the years) than BNRs making 400 rwhp is kind of a silly comparison in my opinion.
I made close to 400 rwhp at only 15 psi, and run around the streets at 17-18 psi on pump gas 100% of the time, no 'low' boost stuff. These turbos will withstand roadrace duties at this boost level as well. None of this applies to the stock twins. We're not all drag racers here.
Just wanted to throw in an alternate viewpoint!
take it easy man
,Rich
I'm quite aware of the particulars of Bryan's twins. I saw what they looked like before you had them in your car(if I remember correctly).
Bryan has spent alot of time on improving them in every way.
But, if the limiting factor are the housings and manifolds, bigger wheels will help with flow but no way will it be an immense difference at their maximum!
My silly comparison is between the remaining FD's with stock twins making 360-400rwh and those w/BNRs making over 400+rwh.
Out of those 13,000+ sets how many are still on the road? how many of the remaining gone single turbo or V8 conversion?
Let's just say stock twin turbo FDs are becoming very rare...
At 17psi or less the stock twins lasted without any problems with stock ports.
After porting the motor they no longer maintained boost at higher boost, therefore I ran 19psi for them to maintain 16-17psi @ 7.5krpm or 20psi to get 17-18psi and only then they start smoking after 6 months of constant abuse.......or maybe it was all the empty-highway pulls to 170-180mph with bikes and cars(yes, I race it beyond a 1/4 mile)
hmmmmm, maybe all the times it ran 125mph thru the 1/4 in a 2940lb car on pump gas, obviouly making well over 400rwh :-)
You have no idea what abuse I put those turbos thru....
Take care,
07-18-06, 02:24 PM
#27
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by Boostn7
Rich, as long as you're happy with their performance is what matters.
I'm quite aware of the particulars of Bryan's twins. I saw what they looked like before you had them in your car(if I remember correctly).
Bryan has spent alot of time on improving them in every way.
But, if the limiting factor are the housings and manifolds, bigger wheels will help with flow but no way will it be an immense difference at their maximum!
My silly comparison is between the remaining FD's with stock twins making 360-400rwh and those w/BNRs making over 400+rwh.
Out of those 13,000+ sets how many are still on the road? how many of the remaining gone single turbo or V8 conversion?
Let's just say stock twin turbo FDs are becoming very rare...
At 17psi or less the stock twins lasted without any problems with stock ports.
After porting the motor they no longer maintained boost at higher boost, therefore I ran 19psi for them to maintain 16-17psi @ 7.5krpm or 20psi to get 17-18psi and only then they start smoking after 6 months of constant abuse.......or maybe it was all the empty-highway pulls to 170-180mph with bikes and cars(yes, I race it beyond a 1/4 mile)
hmmmmm, maybe all the times it ran 125mph thru the 1/4 in a 2940lb car on pump gas, obviouly making well over 400rwh :-)
You have no idea what abuse I put those turbos thru....
Take care,
I'm quite aware of the particulars of Bryan's twins. I saw what they looked like before you had them in your car(if I remember correctly).
Bryan has spent alot of time on improving them in every way.
But, if the limiting factor are the housings and manifolds, bigger wheels will help with flow but no way will it be an immense difference at their maximum!
My silly comparison is between the remaining FD's with stock twins making 360-400rwh and those w/BNRs making over 400+rwh.
Out of those 13,000+ sets how many are still on the road? how many of the remaining gone single turbo or V8 conversion?
Let's just say stock twin turbo FDs are becoming very rare...
At 17psi or less the stock twins lasted without any problems with stock ports.
After porting the motor they no longer maintained boost at higher boost, therefore I ran 19psi for them to maintain 16-17psi @ 7.5krpm or 20psi to get 17-18psi and only then they start smoking after 6 months of constant abuse.......or maybe it was all the empty-highway pulls to 170-180mph with bikes and cars(yes, I race it beyond a 1/4 mile)
hmmmmm, maybe all the times it ran 125mph thru the 1/4 in a 2940lb car on pump gas, obviouly making well over 400rwh :-)
You have no idea what abuse I put those turbos thru....
Take care,
I'm not talking 360 rwhp, I'm talking 400+. And I run 400+ rwhp all day every day, and based upon my intake and engine bay temps the turbos don't seem stressed at all. Try that with stock twins.....I challenge anyone on this forum to essentially run my setup, but with stock turbos. Turn up the boost on your stock twins to 18 psi on pump gas and keep it at that level. Drive it on the street and track like that and report back to us. Any takers?
Rich
07-18-06, 02:46 PM
#28
I accept the challenge, Rich! When I win do I get your car?
Honestly, at 16 psi my stock turbos can't sustain boost after about 6k rpms... The boost number are too high, but then again they do have 90k miles on them... But spool time is great with full boost at 14psi on primary around 2100rpm
Tim
Honestly, at 16 psi my stock turbos can't sustain boost after about 6k rpms... The boost number are too high, but then again they do have 90k miles on them... But spool time is great with full boost at 14psi on primary around 2100rpm
Tim
07-18-06, 07:11 PM
#29
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by FallenCho
Why the hate on the BNR's or other twin turbo set ups? You might see 600+hp on those single turbo RX-7's but how far into the RPM gauge does that power actually develop? I'd rather have my power immediately then having to pretend I'm driving an RSX with it's almight 210hp at redline. High horsepower single turbos that just seem like for drag strip use only and not very practical at all...my 2 cents. :p
just cause the bnr setup are twins doesnt mean they are going to spool like the stock sequentials. i dont have first hand experience but have read that the bnrs setup in parrell mode lag quite a bit!!!
Goodfellas car makes good power but his numbers arent being duplicated that easily. dont foget how much effort rich has put into his car. that thing is modded like crazy!
Its really a no brainer for ME. u can get a ball bearing turbo (or a proven t-78) to cut down lag, have no rats nest, and have BIG RWHP POTENTIAL. we all know how the modding game works. u make 350 and its fun for awhile. get to 400 and thats fun for awhile. u always need more. why go with a setup that is limited so closely to the stockers? the only con that i have discovered is if u live in a tough emmissions state like cali. then a twin setup makes sense. i dont condemn people that went the bnr route. i think some do it to be unique. but my logic to go single vs upgraded twins is tough to beat.
Last edited by matty; 07-18-06 at 07:25 PM.
07-18-06, 07:41 PM
#30
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Hello all.
I redesigned the upgrades to be reliable at higher boost levels. The stock rotating assemblies are not reliable past 15-16 psi of boost b/c of the thrust bearing design. The thrust bearing in the stage 3's is good for 180K+ RPM which equates to around 23-25 psi of boost.
The stage 3's have dynoed middle 420's on a hand full of cars. I have heard of only one set of ported stock twins dyno 402 RWHP which was John D's car a couple years back. There might be more, but that is the only sheet I have seen with my own eyes.
When you buy 99's, you are essentially buying the 93-95 set of twins. The only difference is the seal plate, bearing housing casting and a left hand thread shaft nut. Other than that they are the same turbos. Similar 270 degree thrust bearing which has the same faults as the OE's. The compressor wheels are the same as the 93-95 versions.
Single vs. Twins is comparing apples to oranges
. The twins are good for "stock class" road racing, and also good for visual inspections/emissions. Some of the bigger singles are going to make more power, but in sequential operation the twins are good for great bottom end and throttle response. For autocrossers that response coming out of a corner is a must! Big single is great for drag racing and doing interstate pulls. On pump gas, the twins will compete with singles, but once you get past 18-19 psi of boost back pressure starts hurting power.
Bryan@BNR
I redesigned the upgrades to be reliable at higher boost levels. The stock rotating assemblies are not reliable past 15-16 psi of boost b/c of the thrust bearing design. The thrust bearing in the stage 3's is good for 180K+ RPM which equates to around 23-25 psi of boost.
The stage 3's have dynoed middle 420's on a hand full of cars. I have heard of only one set of ported stock twins dyno 402 RWHP which was John D's car a couple years back. There might be more, but that is the only sheet I have seen with my own eyes.
When you buy 99's, you are essentially buying the 93-95 set of twins. The only difference is the seal plate, bearing housing casting and a left hand thread shaft nut. Other than that they are the same turbos. Similar 270 degree thrust bearing which has the same faults as the OE's. The compressor wheels are the same as the 93-95 versions.
Single vs. Twins is comparing apples to oranges
. The twins are good for "stock class" road racing, and also good for visual inspections/emissions. Some of the bigger singles are going to make more power, but in sequential operation the twins are good for great bottom end and throttle response. For autocrossers that response coming out of a corner is a must! Big single is great for drag racing and doing interstate pulls. On pump gas, the twins will compete with singles, but once you get past 18-19 psi of boost back pressure starts hurting power. Bryan@BNR
Last edited by Bryan@BNR; 07-18-06 at 07:50 PM.
07-19-06, 12:45 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by matty
my question to you is why upgrade to make 25 more rwhp?
just cause the bnr setup are twins doesnt mean they are going to spool like the stock sequentials. i dont have first hand experience but have read that the bnrs setup in parrell mode lag quite a bit!!!
Goodfellas car makes good power but his numbers arent being duplicated that easily. dont foget how much effort rich has put into his car. that thing is modded like crazy!
Its really a no brainer for ME. u can get a ball bearing turbo (or a proven t-78) to cut down lag, have no rats nest, and have BIG RWHP POTENTIAL. we all know how the modding game works. u make 350 and its fun for awhile. get to 400 and thats fun for awhile. u always need more. why go with a setup that is limited so closely to the stockers? the only con that i have discovered is if u live in a tough emmissions state like cali. then a twin setup makes sense. i dont condemn people that went the bnr route. i think some do it to be unique. but my logic to go single vs upgraded twins is tough to beat.
just cause the bnr setup are twins doesnt mean they are going to spool like the stock sequentials. i dont have first hand experience but have read that the bnrs setup in parrell mode lag quite a bit!!!
Goodfellas car makes good power but his numbers arent being duplicated that easily. dont foget how much effort rich has put into his car. that thing is modded like crazy!
Its really a no brainer for ME. u can get a ball bearing turbo (or a proven t-78) to cut down lag, have no rats nest, and have BIG RWHP POTENTIAL. we all know how the modding game works. u make 350 and its fun for awhile. get to 400 and thats fun for awhile. u always need more. why go with a setup that is limited so closely to the stockers? the only con that i have discovered is if u live in a tough emmissions state like cali. then a twin setup makes sense. i dont condemn people that went the bnr route. i think some do it to be unique. but my logic to go single vs upgraded twins is tough to beat.
Also going single turbo usually requires you to get rid of your air pump which just isn't worth it in some states when you have someone who actually checks whats on the car.
07-19-06, 01:38 AM
#34
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Regardless, you seem to think that the BNR turbos are similar to stock turbos, when that is most certainly not the case. You may as well say that a Greddy T-78 is similar to stock turbos, that statement makes about the same amount of sense.
I'm not talking 360 rwhp, I'm talking 400+. And I run 400+ rwhp all day every day, and based upon my intake and engine bay temps the turbos don't seem stressed at all. Try that with stock twins.....I challenge anyone on this forum to essentially run my setup, but with stock turbos. Turn up the boost on your stock twins to 18 psi on pump gas and keep it at that level. Drive it on the street and track like that and report back to us. Any takers?
Rich
I'm not talking 360 rwhp, I'm talking 400+. And I run 400+ rwhp all day every day, and based upon my intake and engine bay temps the turbos don't seem stressed at all. Try that with stock twins.....I challenge anyone on this forum to essentially run my setup, but with stock turbos. Turn up the boost on your stock twins to 18 psi on pump gas and keep it at that level. Drive it on the street and track like that and report back to us. Any takers?
Rich
I'm well aware of the fact that Bryan has slapped complete new "CHRA's" in machined turbine/compressor housings getting rid of his old problem with smoking turbos. Obviousy the bigger compressor wheels were too much for the little "oem" shafts.
The latest BNRs sport bigger turbine and compressor wheels on thicker shafts which obviously should flow more with added reliability.
But so far... ~420rwh @ claimed 17.5psi on race gas with full boost as late as ~5krpm is NO immense difference when we have stock twins hitting 370-380rwh in many cars with better spool up.
Compare both of our dyno sheets:
Posting continually that the BNRs are similar to a Greddy T78 or T66 makes even less sense in your part.
Hehehehe...my twins put down 400rwh on stock ports and a bit more when it was ported for alot longer then you have owned your BNR's.....what's your point ???
07-19-06, 02:37 AM
#35
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Originally Posted by Bryan@BNR
Hello all.
I redesigned the upgrades to be reliable at higher boost levels. The stock rotating assemblies are not reliable past 15-16 psi of boost b/c of the thrust bearing design. The thrust bearing in the stage 3's is good for 180K+ RPM which equates to around 23-25 psi of boost.
The stage 3's have dynoed middle 420's on a hand full of cars. I have heard of only one set of ported stock twins dyno 402 RWHP which was John D's car a couple years back. There might be more, but that is the only sheet I have seen with my own eyes.
When you buy 99's, you are essentially buying the 93-95 set of twins. The only difference is the seal plate, bearing housing casting and a left hand thread shaft nut. Other than that they are the same turbos. Similar 270 degree thrust bearing which has the same faults as the OE's. The compressor wheels are the same as the 93-95 versions.
Single vs. Twins is comparing apples to oranges. The twins are good for "stock class" road racing, and also good for visual inspections/emissions. Some of the bigger singles are going to make more power, but in sequential operation the twins are good for great bottom end and throttle response. For autocrossers that response coming out of a corner is a must! Big single is great for drag racing and doing interstate pulls. On pump gas, the twins will compete with singles, but once you get past 18-19 psi of boost back pressure starts hurting power.
Bryan@BNR
I redesigned the upgrades to be reliable at higher boost levels. The stock rotating assemblies are not reliable past 15-16 psi of boost b/c of the thrust bearing design. The thrust bearing in the stage 3's is good for 180K+ RPM which equates to around 23-25 psi of boost.
The stage 3's have dynoed middle 420's on a hand full of cars. I have heard of only one set of ported stock twins dyno 402 RWHP which was John D's car a couple years back. There might be more, but that is the only sheet I have seen with my own eyes.
When you buy 99's, you are essentially buying the 93-95 set of twins. The only difference is the seal plate, bearing housing casting and a left hand thread shaft nut. Other than that they are the same turbos. Similar 270 degree thrust bearing which has the same faults as the OE's. The compressor wheels are the same as the 93-95 versions.
Single vs. Twins is comparing apples to oranges
. The twins are good for "stock class" road racing, and also good for visual inspections/emissions. Some of the bigger singles are going to make more power, but in sequential operation the twins are good for great bottom end and throttle response. For autocrossers that response coming out of a corner is a must! Big single is great for drag racing and doing interstate pulls. On pump gas, the twins will compete with singles, but once you get past 18-19 psi of boost back pressure starts hurting power. Bryan@BNR
Let me correct myself from my previous statement.
'99-up twins had same size compressor wheel (57mm/10 blade) with an abradable compressor sealing and a smaller (50mm vs 51mm/9 blade) 8new design* turbine wheel reducing inertia mass and adding efficiency overall. Therefore, they should have about the same potential as the S6 twins and BE better at lower boost.
With the BNRs (non-seq) hitting full boost between 4.5-5krpm and making 420rwh @ ~18psi they will fall behind up against many single turbos. Most smaller single turbos should make 400rwh @ 14-16psi easily and continue making power til 30+psi of boost with full spool by 3.5-4krpm.
We both have spoken many times on this subject....back pressure:-)
The original turbine/manifold design was never engineered to flow 400+ rwh of exhaust thru it ! I've personally reached that limit on stock (port-matched) turbos while air intake temps were under control.
Later
07-19-06, 07:45 AM
#36
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by Boostn7
You're obviously avoiding the facts !!!
I'm well aware of the fact that Bryan has slapped complete new "CHRA's" in machined turbine/compressor housings getting rid of his old problem with smoking turbos. Obviousy the bigger compressor wheels were too much for the little "oem" shafts.
The latest BNRs sport bigger turbine and compressor wheels on thicker shafts which obviously should flow more with added reliability.
But so far... ~420rwh @ claimed 17.5psi on race gas with full boost as late as ~5krpm is NO immense difference when we have stock twins hitting 370-380rwh in many cars with better spool up.
Compare both of our dyno sheets:
Posting continually that the BNRs are similar to a Greddy T78 or T66 makes even less sense in your part.
Hehehehe...my twins put down 400rwh on stock ports and a bit more when it was ported for alot longer then you have owned your BNR's.....what's your point ???
I'm well aware of the fact that Bryan has slapped complete new "CHRA's" in machined turbine/compressor housings getting rid of his old problem with smoking turbos. Obviousy the bigger compressor wheels were too much for the little "oem" shafts.
The latest BNRs sport bigger turbine and compressor wheels on thicker shafts which obviously should flow more with added reliability.
But so far... ~420rwh @ claimed 17.5psi on race gas with full boost as late as ~5krpm is NO immense difference when we have stock twins hitting 370-380rwh in many cars with better spool up.
Compare both of our dyno sheets:
Posting continually that the BNRs are similar to a Greddy T78 or T66 makes even less sense in your part.
Hehehehe...my twins put down 400rwh on stock ports and a bit more when it was ported for alot longer then you have owned your BNR's.....what's your point ???
That's funny, I have thought that you are the one avoiding the facts for quite some time now
.I have owned BNRs in various iterations since 2001 and for 40,000 miles, so not sure what your point is actually. How many miles did your stock twins survive at the 400 rwhp mark?
The comparison of a Greddy T-78 comes directly from Steve Kan, who has tuned a few RX-7s in the last couple of years. He observed that from dyno to dyno over the course of many dyno days/tuning sessions the newer style Stage 3s produce a very similar dyno sheet to a Greddy T-78/Turbonetics T-66 sized turbo at the same boost level.
Somehow I think you are running different stock twins than everyone else, because I've been in this game for quite a long time, and have never, ever, ever seen another set of stock twins produce a 125 mph trap speed (about 400 rwhp). Ever. Why is that? I hope I am making myself clear enough, because quite frankly I am sick of typing the same thing over and over again.
07-19-06, 08:04 AM
#37
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
how are u comparing the bnrs to a t-78? a properly tuned t-78 would chew up your car dude. come on, lets be real.
now fun factor, i have no clue. but it appears the bnrs are spooling up rather late as well.
now fun factor, i have no clue. but it appears the bnrs are spooling up rather late as well.
Last edited by matty; 07-19-06 at 08:07 AM.
07-19-06, 08:48 AM
#38
Original Gangster/Rotary!
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Originally Posted by matty
how are u comparing the bnrs to a t-78? a properly tuned t-78 would chew up your car dude. come on, lets be real.
now fun factor, i have no clue. but it appears the bnrs are spooling up rather late as well.
now fun factor, i have no clue. but it appears the bnrs are spooling up rather late as well.
Honestly man, every thread I see you in you're constantly debating and arguing, and I have neither the time nor the energy for it.
Lots of guys on this forum love to talk numbers and spout off about fourth-hand internet knowledge, but I am talking about repeatable real-world results here guys.....
Rich
07-19-06, 08:50 AM
#39
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From everything that's been said by others and what you've said I'd recommend the 99 twins.
If you want 300 rwhp stock twins or 99s @ 12psi
If you want 350 rwhp rx6 @ 12psi
If you want 375 GT35/40 @ 12psi
If you want 400 t78 @ 12psi
If you're on a limited budget and want decent power get the BNRs but sacrifice spool IOW your daily driver fun factor will suffer considerably.
I know everyone will say why limit the boost to 12psi? Because adding 5lbs to any of the above turbos for the extra 50 to 75 HP isn't worth it. IMO if you want more power get a bigger turbo and keep the boost low. This keeps everything cooler, the boost is easy to control along w/ easier to tune for and control spikes etc.....
This school of thought obviously doesn't apply to drag racers this is for guys daily driving their cars who want to have fun but not sacrifice their engines.
Rotaries love boost but because the engines don't like knock it's risky enough at 5 psi much less 12.
If you want 300 rwhp stock twins or 99s @ 12psi
If you want 350 rwhp rx6 @ 12psi
If you want 375 GT35/40 @ 12psi
If you want 400 t78 @ 12psi
If you're on a limited budget and want decent power get the BNRs but sacrifice spool IOW your daily driver fun factor will suffer considerably.
I know everyone will say why limit the boost to 12psi? Because adding 5lbs to any of the above turbos for the extra 50 to 75 HP isn't worth it. IMO if you want more power get a bigger turbo and keep the boost low. This keeps everything cooler, the boost is easy to control along w/ easier to tune for and control spikes etc.....
This school of thought obviously doesn't apply to drag racers this is for guys daily driving their cars who want to have fun but not sacrifice their engines.
Rotaries love boost but because the engines don't like knock it's risky enough at 5 psi much less 12.
07-19-06, 10:08 AM
#41
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Properly tuned t-78? go back and reread what I typed above. I think steve has properly tuned more than one or two t-78s. I am talking pump gas boost levels, I have never been interested in running race gas. I've already 'chewed up' a t35r single. Talk to fastcarfreak, he has a t78 and felt what my car can do.
Honestly man, every thread I see you in you're constantly debating and arguing, and I have neither the time nor the energy for it.
Lots of guys on this forum love to talk numbers and spout off about fourth-hand internet knowledge, but I am talking about repeatable real-world results here guys.....
Rich
Honestly man, every thread I see you in you're constantly debating and arguing, and I have neither the time nor the energy for it.
Lots of guys on this forum love to talk numbers and spout off about fourth-hand internet knowledge, but I am talking about repeatable real-world results here guys.....
Rich
most guys that know a thing or two do follow the same logic that i posted above. i bet your car is awesome but its not the route i would go these days. i think i have seen posts by you already looking for more power...so what are u argueing?
Last edited by matty; 07-19-06 at 10:26 AM.
07-19-06, 12:15 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Good morning John,
That's funny, I have thought that you are the one avoiding the facts for quite some time now.
I have owned BNRs in various iterations since 2001 and for 40,000 miles, so not sure what your point is actually. How many miles did your stock twins survive at the 400 rwhp mark?
The comparison of a Greddy T-78 comes directly from Steve Kan, who has tuned a few RX-7s in the last couple of years. He observed that from dyno to dyno over the course of many dyno days/tuning sessions the newer style Stage 3s produce a very similar dyno sheet to a Greddy T-78/Turbonetics T-66 sized turbo at the same boost level.
Somehow I think you are running different stock twins than everyone else, because I've been in this game for quite a long time, and have never, ever, ever seen another set of stock twins produce a 125 mph trap speed (about 400 rwhp). Ever. Why is that? I hope I am making myself clear enough, because quite frankly I am sick of typing the same thing over and over again.
That's funny, I have thought that you are the one avoiding the facts for quite some time now
.I have owned BNRs in various iterations since 2001 and for 40,000 miles, so not sure what your point is actually. How many miles did your stock twins survive at the 400 rwhp mark?
The comparison of a Greddy T-78 comes directly from Steve Kan, who has tuned a few RX-7s in the last couple of years. He observed that from dyno to dyno over the course of many dyno days/tuning sessions the newer style Stage 3s produce a very similar dyno sheet to a Greddy T-78/Turbonetics T-66 sized turbo at the same boost level.
Somehow I think you are running different stock twins than everyone else, because I've been in this game for quite a long time, and have never, ever, ever seen another set of stock twins produce a 125 mph trap speed (about 400 rwhp). Ever. Why is that? I hope I am making myself clear enough, because quite frankly I am sick of typing the same thing over and over again.
My stock turbos had 31k miles of stock boost before any mods. At 50k miles I had just made 402rwh(non/seq) and had been running them @14-17psi for awhile.
At ~62k miles I start to raise the boost(18-19psi) and within 6 months they started to smoke a bit. One night @ 19-20psi I snapped the shaft on the front turbo (too much shaft play causing the turbine wheel to crash inside the housing). Replaced the front turbo with a used one and lasted another 6 months before I replaced the complete set with a low mileage used one which I still have on my shelf and no smoking.
So over 60k miles is actually very good considering the abuse.
I was actually happy with the 120-122mph traps @ 17psi 'til Bryan-BNR told me it was not possible to run 125mph on twins as his stage3 had accomplished once and within 2-3 weeks I had 4 time slips w/ 125mph traps on pump gas which is easily ~420rwh in a 2940lb car.
I ask you the same question......why only ONE set of BNR's have trapped 125mph on race gas and only 2-3 broke the 400rhw all on race gas ????
Stock twins have run 120-122mph in other FD's, not only my FD.
T78 or T66 on a equally tuned car will make over 450rwh @ 17psi...no contest!
I'm done here....results speak for themselves...
Have a good day
07-19-06, 12:29 PM
#44
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Was the 402hp at the wheels made on a mustang dyno or a dynojet? And you were at 17psi for this HP level correct?
Your trap speeds are impressive for a set of stock non sequential twins.
Your trap speeds are impressive for a set of stock non sequential twins.
07-19-06, 01:17 PM
#45
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
hey boosnt...i been runnign 15psi for 3-4 yrs now. any idea why i cant make more than 15psi even if i turn up my power fc. i have open exhaust dp, resonated mp, and rb dual tip exhaust as well as all the boltons. i can control boost perfectly with power fc. i can run 12 psi no spikes or creeps or anything...just cant run more than 15psi. car has 50k miles. tks
maybe cause they are still sequential?
maybe cause they are still sequential?
Last edited by matty; 07-19-06 at 01:20 PM.
07-19-06, 01:21 PM
#46
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by xblazinlv
Your trap speeds are impressive for a set of stock non sequential twins.
07-19-06, 01:23 PM
#47
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
just to poke fun as i dont want to have any hard feelings....i bet u really wanted to call me a dick but refrained. what can i say....i am an angry ****.
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
Honestly man, every thread I see you in you're constantly debating and arguing, and I have neither the time nor the energy for it.
Rich
Rich
07-19-06, 06:15 PM
#48
Original Gangster/Rotary!
iTrader: (213)
Originally Posted by matty
just to poke fun as i dont want to have any hard feelings....i bet u really wanted to call me a dick but refrained. what can i say....i am an angry ****.
.It's all good man. I was mainly looking for better spoolup/low end in my setup (not more power) and that is why I am switching to dual ball-bearing BNRs. I think that for a pump gas setup I am pretty damn happy with the 5k to 8k rpm powerband and don't think a single will net any more (i say again, at pump gas boost levels of up to 17 psi). It's the 3k to 5k I want to improve.
So once you sell your FD are you still going to hang around and stir up trouble
?
07-19-06, 07:32 PM
#49
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
Originally Posted by GoodfellaFD3S
funny, in person you're pretty unsassuming and non-confrontational .
It's all good man. I was mainly looking for better spoolup/low end in my setup (not more power) and that is why I am switching to dual ball-bearing BNRs. I think that for a pump gas setup I am pretty damn happy with the 5k to 8k rpm powerband and don't think a single will net any more (i say again, at pump gas boost levels of up to 17 psi). It's the 3k to 5k I want to improve.
So once you sell your FD are you still going to hang around and stir up trouble ?
.It's all good man. I was mainly looking for better spoolup/low end in my setup (not more power) and that is why I am switching to dual ball-bearing BNRs. I think that for a pump gas setup I am pretty damn happy with the 5k to 8k rpm powerband and don't think a single will net any more (i say again, at pump gas boost levels of up to 17 psi). It's the 3k to 5k I want to improve.
So once you sell your FD are you still going to hang around and stir up trouble
?anyways, i havent really advertised my fd anywhere besides here. in no rush. the car has been a hobby for me for quite sometime what will i do at night if i am not on forum. spend time with the fam....yikes. no sir. i dont know what i am gonna do.
back to topic.
