a DOWNPIPE for your engine compartment: COOL LOOVERS and other heat fixes
08-14-06 | 05:56 PM
#51
2/4 wheel cornering fiend
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 3,090
Likes: 3
From: Pasadena, CA
Originally Posted by Eggie
But, as Kento pointed out, that air is much cooler than the turbos or downpipe, and it can help to cool them. OTOH, I doubt the shortblock or heatsoaked UIM will benefit significantly from the rad's output.
10-20-06 | 07:36 PM
#52
There is this consideration. I doubt there's much velocity to the air coming in the IC duct in the first place. ... that's not kevin's fault, it's just a bad factory design.
Originally Posted by Kento
With all due respect to Kevin and the ASP setup (I have a medium kit), I'm not that enthused about the provided "extension" piece to the duct mouth, which already comes in a pretty severe angle due to the FD engine compartment's design. The extension I was provided with in the kit is basically a crude 90-degree scoop attachment, and while I'm sure this helps direct some airflow in there, it's still a pretty severe angle, and the airflow is going to take a path of lesser resistance (i.e., the radiator-- which has a much thinner core specifically for that purpose--and any gaps that may be next to it). I think that may be the reason for the "1-3 mph" airflow speed readings Howard found, not so much the lack of exit area for airflow in the engine compartment.
I think an extension with smoother angles that extends all the way to the front of the radiator opening (to help separate the airflow/pressure of the IC and radiator) would help airflow speed through the IC tremendously. I'm going to try and fab something up in the near future.
I did something like this for my Greddy SMIC a while back, and while I don't have any testing numbers, the temperature of the IC body was significantly improved at lower speeds when I opened the hood.
I think an extension with smoother angles that extends all the way to the front of the radiator opening (to help separate the airflow/pressure of the IC and radiator) would help airflow speed through the IC tremendously. I'm going to try and fab something up in the near future.
I did something like this for my Greddy SMIC a while back, and while I don't have any testing numbers, the temperature of the IC body was significantly improved at lower speeds when I opened the hood.
10-20-06 | 10:39 PM
#53
Goodfalla Engine Complete
iTrader: (28)
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,238
Likes: 34
From: Kennewick, Washington
Ok. Two points need to be separated:
1. The actual amount of Airflow THROUGH the IC and Radiator.
conclusion= louvers help create a way for more air to make it through (thus 1.5-3 mph jumped up to 5-8mph)
2. Heat retention in the engine bay.
How to get the turbos and engine bllock its;ef cooler? does the air going throught he IC and Rad help cool the rest of the engine bay... even after already picking up temp from the IC and Rad? The answer is yes. No reason to direct that flow away from the engine.
If you direct the entire flow of air from the IC out of the engine bay directly, then you will achieve two things. Less cooling air for the engine and turbos. More efficient IC.
It's a give and take. Louvered Hoods give you the best of both worlds. Less Underhood heat retention by the Turbos and Engien, and more flow through the IC and Rad.
I just wanted to pipe in and bring up that two separate issues are being presented, but are not being separated out properly.
Just my .02
1. The actual amount of Airflow THROUGH the IC and Radiator.
conclusion= louvers help create a way for more air to make it through (thus 1.5-3 mph jumped up to 5-8mph)
2. Heat retention in the engine bay.
How to get the turbos and engine bllock its;ef cooler? does the air going throught he IC and Rad help cool the rest of the engine bay... even after already picking up temp from the IC and Rad? The answer is yes. No reason to direct that flow away from the engine.
If you direct the entire flow of air from the IC out of the engine bay directly, then you will achieve two things. Less cooling air for the engine and turbos. More efficient IC.
It's a give and take. Louvered Hoods give you the best of both worlds. Less Underhood heat retention by the Turbos and Engien, and more flow through the IC and Rad.
I just wanted to pipe in and bring up that two separate issues are being presented, but are not being separated out properly.
Just my .02
06-16-07 | 08:55 PM
#54
Bringing back the dead ;o)
I like the hood Howard! Not sure how I haven't noticed it until late. Perhaps an idea scenario would involve an IC ducted directly to the atmosphere and a radiator ducted into the engine bay.
It is reasonable to associate intercooler efficiency with charge temps/density (and thus power) while radiators are most closely associated with coolant temps. Having said that, it makes sense to provide an isolated vent to The IC so far as the radiator and oil coolers are able to keep engine temps down as this configuration safely optimizes charge temps.
It is, no doubt, important to allow air into the engine bay to absorb some of the heat energy coming off the surfaces of the engine, turbos thus either the IC or rad should exhaust into the engine bay. The rad is the logical choice for this treatment as it impedes airflow less than the IC and will therefore exhaust more air in a given amount of time than the IC. For this reason the radiator should receive priority as far as V/mount angling goes.
ICs can use a little help from dedicated ducting due to their inferior external flow characteristics that result from core thickness. There are several benefits to a cooler IC. Aside from making more power through increased charge density, lower charge temps will lower engine temps to some extent as the air is in contact with the internal surface area of the engine. So while air is router away from the engine, the IC is providing some cooling effect, not to mention keeping the combustion mixtures from getting a bit too excited.
A v-mount using a custom drop vent hood seems like a nice way to fly. Ideally a V-mount should have an adjustable splitter built into sealed ducting, allowing the driver to adjust the air bias between the rad and IC.
An idea scenario would involve some type of simple electronic servo that could be controlled by an ECU and triggered in accordance with temp triggers from a simple analog sensor. It seems that even a stand-alone system of this sort would be feasible for any competent EE to design and it would be worth doing so as it would allow for an optimal balance between performance and engine temps. All you would really need to do in theory is hook up a temp sensor and map out a series of servo responses in accordance with different coolant temps. As far as I'm concerned, the engine should run just cool enough to be safe and any extra air flow should be dedicated to decreasing charge temps.
Obviously it would take some testing and tweaking, but I see an open loop electronic splitter as completely doable. Something like this would no doubt be useful as optimal air biases change in accordance with ground speed. Anyway, something to think about...
I like the hood Howard! Not sure how I haven't noticed it until late. Perhaps an idea scenario would involve an IC ducted directly to the atmosphere and a radiator ducted into the engine bay.
It is reasonable to associate intercooler efficiency with charge temps/density (and thus power) while radiators are most closely associated with coolant temps. Having said that, it makes sense to provide an isolated vent to The IC so far as the radiator and oil coolers are able to keep engine temps down as this configuration safely optimizes charge temps.
It is, no doubt, important to allow air into the engine bay to absorb some of the heat energy coming off the surfaces of the engine, turbos thus either the IC or rad should exhaust into the engine bay. The rad is the logical choice for this treatment as it impedes airflow less than the IC and will therefore exhaust more air in a given amount of time than the IC. For this reason the radiator should receive priority as far as V/mount angling goes.
ICs can use a little help from dedicated ducting due to their inferior external flow characteristics that result from core thickness. There are several benefits to a cooler IC. Aside from making more power through increased charge density, lower charge temps will lower engine temps to some extent as the air is in contact with the internal surface area of the engine. So while air is router away from the engine, the IC is providing some cooling effect, not to mention keeping the combustion mixtures from getting a bit too excited.
A v-mount using a custom drop vent hood seems like a nice way to fly. Ideally a V-mount should have an adjustable splitter built into sealed ducting, allowing the driver to adjust the air bias between the rad and IC.
An idea scenario would involve some type of simple electronic servo that could be controlled by an ECU and triggered in accordance with temp triggers from a simple analog sensor. It seems that even a stand-alone system of this sort would be feasible for any competent EE to design and it would be worth doing so as it would allow for an optimal balance between performance and engine temps. All you would really need to do in theory is hook up a temp sensor and map out a series of servo responses in accordance with different coolant temps. As far as I'm concerned, the engine should run just cool enough to be safe and any extra air flow should be dedicated to decreasing charge temps.
Obviously it would take some testing and tweaking, but I see an open loop electronic splitter as completely doable. Something like this would no doubt be useful as optimal air biases change in accordance with ground speed. Anyway, something to think about...
Last edited by wanklin; 06-16-07 at 09:01 PM.
06-17-07 | 10:44 AM
#55
oh wow, please tell me this is a joke
#1 - that's wicked fugly
#2 - instead of runining your stuck hood you can just buy a vented hood
#3 - people have known the benefits of vented hoods for a LONG TIME
lol way to ruin your hood
#1 - that's wicked fugly
#2 - instead of runining your stuck hood you can just buy a vented hood
#3 - people have known the benefits of vented hoods for a LONG TIME
lol way to ruin your hood
06-17-07 | 02:00 PM
#56
#1 everyone has their own opinions on looks
#2 howard covered the idea of purchasing aftermarket vented fiberglass and carbon fiber hoods
#3 this was another avenue, and howard was providing scientific data, there have been many forum members who have cut up their hoods, maybe you should flame on them also
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