Down shifting question??
06-17-02, 02:04 PM
#26
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Originally posted by Roadracing7
This is absolutely rediculous to have to discuss and even prove this on a board, but because "mental retardation" is what pisses me off the most about people, I am going to set up an "experiment" to give you some times, will post later tonight if I get time from working on 3 FDs...
Basic theory: If you are starting from a stop on a dragstrip, you start in 1st, then shift to 2nd, then 3rd, 4th... On your way up, God forbid you were to look at the tach and speedometer, or you'd see at the end of 2nd, when you're about to shift to third, you're at 68 mph (~8k redline, which is winding out a bit)...
ISUposs- "personally, at 65 I'll go to 3rd at 70, i just go to 4th"
I feel bad for ya man, this means you're gonna upshift from 2nd to 4th on the drag strip because it's wasted time to be in 3rd gear for so little time... Cars have separate gears for a reason, and that's to maximize engine power at different input/output revs. It amazes me that you find such fundamental misunderstandings on a board that is meant to ADVANCE knowlege of cars, specifically, RX-7s. Those of you in favor of 4th gear, be very ashamed...
This is absolutely rediculous to have to discuss and even prove this on a board, but because "mental retardation" is what pisses me off the most about people, I am going to set up an "experiment" to give you some times, will post later tonight if I get time from working on 3 FDs...
Basic theory: If you are starting from a stop on a dragstrip, you start in 1st, then shift to 2nd, then 3rd, 4th... On your way up, God forbid you were to look at the tach and speedometer, or you'd see at the end of 2nd, when you're about to shift to third, you're at 68 mph (~8k redline, which is winding out a bit)...
ISUposs- "personally, at 65 I'll go to 3rd at 70, i just go to 4th"
I feel bad for ya man, this means you're gonna upshift from 2nd to 4th on the drag strip because it's wasted time to be in 3rd gear for so little time... Cars have separate gears for a reason, and that's to maximize engine power at different input/output revs. It amazes me that you find such fundamental misunderstandings on a board that is meant to ADVANCE knowlege of cars, specifically, RX-7s. Those of you in favor of 4th gear, be very ashamed...
06-17-02, 02:26 PM
#28
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Originally posted by 7-sins
I was crusing at 55 and this GST eclipse came up beside me trying to rev. I dropped from 5th to 3rd, broke traction, and there was no more eclipse.
I was crusing at 55 and this GST eclipse came up beside me trying to rev. I dropped from 5th to 3rd, broke traction, and there was no more eclipse.
. All I have to say is WOW. Im glad theres finally some people on here to back me up.
06-17-02, 02:30 PM
#29
Originally posted by RedFD
Ive dropped to 2nd @ 55. All I have to say is WOW. Im glad theres finally some people on here to back me up.
Ive dropped to 2nd @ 55
. All I have to say is WOW. Im glad theres finally some people on here to back me up.
06-17-02, 02:37 PM
#30
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Here is an old sequential dyno chart of mine. YOU tell ME whether you would rather have the power available at:
4000 rpm in 4th, 175rwhp & 235rwtq
or
6500 rpm in 3rd, 290rwhp & 235rwtq
http://flathat.woodstream.net/RX7/Dyno/P4210120.JPG
Makes it kinda obvious that downshifting is the thing to do IF you are trying to win the race and would like that extra 115rwhp available to help you...
K
4000 rpm in 4th, 175rwhp & 235rwtq
or
6500 rpm in 3rd, 290rwhp & 235rwtq
http://flathat.woodstream.net/RX7/Dyno/P4210120.JPG
Makes it kinda obvious that downshifting is the thing to do IF you are trying to win the race and would like that extra 115rwhp available to help you...
K
Last edited by nocab72; 06-17-02 at 02:43 PM.
06-17-02, 02:43 PM
#31
Originally posted by nocab72
Makes it kinda obvious that downshifting is the thing to do IF you are trying to win the race and would like that extra 115rwhp available to help you...
Makes it kinda obvious that downshifting is the thing to do IF you are trying to win the race and would like that extra 115rwhp available to help you...
Hopefully, if my PCV gets here Wednesday, I can get my car back together. Then I'll do some runs and see if I can get some times down later this week.
However, I do dislike FD owners calling other owners "dumb" or putting them down instead of having an intelligent discussion. I guess that's what happens when kids are able to afford FD's...
06-17-02, 02:56 PM
#34
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Mahjik - I certainly didn't mean to call you "dumb" or put you down. I don't intentionally do that even to people I think ARE dumb, so my apologies go out to you if you thought I was calling you dumb or putting you down.
now back to the discussion at hand-------
I just thought the numbers spoke for themselves and that it was obvious. 175hp v/s 290hp with equal torque. In equal cars, the guy who does a 3rd gear drop from 80mph in our cars will walk all over the guy who only drops to 4th.
Please try it for yourself and report back for those other "show-me" members! (I've already done it, I know from exp)
BTW: I'm probably older than you
K
now back to the discussion at hand-------
I just thought the numbers spoke for themselves and that it was obvious. 175hp v/s 290hp with equal torque. In equal cars, the guy who does a 3rd gear drop from 80mph in our cars will walk all over the guy who only drops to 4th.
Please try it for yourself and report back for those other "show-me" members! (I've already done it, I know from exp)
BTW: I'm probably older than you
K
Last edited by nocab72; 06-17-02 at 02:59 PM.
06-17-02, 03:00 PM
#35
Originally posted by nocab72
Mahjik - I certainly didn't mean to call you "dumb" or put you down. I don't intentionally do that even to people I think ARE dumb, so my apologies go out to you if you thought I was calling you dumb or putting you down.
now back to the discussion at hand-------
I just thought the numbers spoke for themselves and that it was obvious. 175hp v/s 290hp
BTW: I'm probably older than you
K
Mahjik - I certainly didn't mean to call you "dumb" or put you down. I don't intentionally do that even to people I think ARE dumb, so my apologies go out to you if you thought I was calling you dumb or putting you down.
now back to the discussion at hand-------
I just thought the numbers spoke for themselves and that it was obvious. 175hp v/s 290hp
BTW: I'm probably older than you
K
I understand what you are saying about the dyno chart, however, a rolling freeway start verses dyno conditions.... I would rather have a controlled test of the exact situation we are debating.
That's just me, I like to compare apples to apples.
06-17-02, 03:02 PM
#36
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Well I will tell you what I do in this situation. lets say a major highway or whatever. If you see a potential race I usually will downshift to forth and and still be driving fine. Sit at 65-70 mph not yet racing. Sitting at about 4 grand somewhere.
Everyone knows that their is always some kind of communication before the race starts either eye contact or they flash you what ever the case may be. So when that happens I am prepared to drop to 3rd. Going from 5th to 3rd is a joke. Your power is going to kick in so fast that it will actually stunt the car for a second. So I drop in 3rd with out much disruption. Works just fine for me. If they sneek up on you and just fly by you they are losers anyway, but you still gotta case them down.
Off topic but curious about everyones top speeds.
Everyone knows that their is always some kind of communication before the race starts either eye contact or they flash you what ever the case may be. So when that happens I am prepared to drop to 3rd. Going from 5th to 3rd is a joke. Your power is going to kick in so fast that it will actually stunt the car for a second. So I drop in 3rd with out much disruption. Works just fine for me. If they sneek up on you and just fly by you they are losers anyway, but you still gotta case them down.
Off topic but curious about everyones top speeds.
06-17-02, 03:26 PM
#37
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You want to be in a high rpm at all times when you're racing. Higher RPM's go faster which is just common sense. You have to find the gear you're gonna be in the highest RPM in without reaching redline, rev match, then downshift into it. Lower gears always go faster so naturally you're gonna put it in 3rd instead of 4th. I will put it into 3rd until 80 mph. Around 90 or so I will put it in 4th. it's just common sense...make sre you rev match. Raise your rpm to around 4k or so then downshift into the desired gear. But usually on the freeway you're gonna downshift into 3rd. Depends what you race, if it's something slow i'd put it in 4th, if it's a challenge go into 3rd. You have to remember that you drive a rotary and it likes high revs
06-17-02, 04:05 PM
#39
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Originally posted by Mahjik
BTW, if your birthday is correct in your profile, then no you aren't older than me.
BTW, if your birthday is correct in your profile, then no you aren't older than me.
Regardless, my mom doesn't let me live at home, so I must not be a kid anymore
Although I prefer to act like one at times, and would rather have the responsibility level of one! K
06-17-02, 10:20 PM
#40
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GO TO THIRDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
YUP, SHIFT TO THIRD!!!!!!!!!
THATS TO GET MORE POWER, YOU'LL FEEL IT IF YOU DO IT RIGHT. SOME PEOPLE SHIFT TO FOURTH AND FEEL THAT SLOW RISE IN BOOST THAT MAKES THE CAR FEEL SMOOTH AND FAST. BUT IF YOU GO TO THIRD AND REV MATCH, YOU'LL FEEL THAT SAME BAND OF POWER BUT ONLY TEN TIMES FASTER. YOUR MISSING OUT IN A LOT OF POWER IF YOU SHIFT TO FOURTH. TRUST ME, YOU GOTTA SHIFT TO THIRD.
WHEN I HAD MY 97 ESCLIPSE GSX AND FIRST LEARNED HOW TO DRIVE A STICK, I WOULD SHIFT TO SECOND AT TWENTY MILES PER HOUR, AND AT THIRD AT THIRTY, AND AT FOURTH AT FORTY MILES PER HOUR AND SO ON....
I DIDN'T KNOW HOW FAST THE CAR REALLY WAS WHEN I LEARNED HOW TO REALLY DRIVE..............
IF YOU UPGRADED YOUR CLUTCH ITS A DIFFERENT STORY, SOME PEOPLE SHIFT TO SECOND AT EIGHTY TO
NINETY WITH AN AFTERMARKET CLUTCH.
DAMN THAT'S FASTTTTTT
THATS TO GET MORE POWER, YOU'LL FEEL IT IF YOU DO IT RIGHT. SOME PEOPLE SHIFT TO FOURTH AND FEEL THAT SLOW RISE IN BOOST THAT MAKES THE CAR FEEL SMOOTH AND FAST. BUT IF YOU GO TO THIRD AND REV MATCH, YOU'LL FEEL THAT SAME BAND OF POWER BUT ONLY TEN TIMES FASTER. YOUR MISSING OUT IN A LOT OF POWER IF YOU SHIFT TO FOURTH. TRUST ME, YOU GOTTA SHIFT TO THIRD.
WHEN I HAD MY 97 ESCLIPSE GSX AND FIRST LEARNED HOW TO DRIVE A STICK, I WOULD SHIFT TO SECOND AT TWENTY MILES PER HOUR, AND AT THIRD AT THIRTY, AND AT FOURTH AT FORTY MILES PER HOUR AND SO ON....
I DIDN'T KNOW HOW FAST THE CAR REALLY WAS WHEN I LEARNED HOW TO REALLY DRIVE..............
IF YOU UPGRADED YOUR CLUTCH ITS A DIFFERENT STORY, SOME PEOPLE SHIFT TO SECOND AT EIGHTY TO
NINETY WITH AN AFTERMARKET CLUTCH.
DAMN THAT'S FASTTTTTT
06-17-02, 11:03 PM
#42
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guys....chill out...
he's talking about a ricer not a vette...
even in 4th, you'll be able to smoke any ricer you see on the freeway
but if you want to show them how fast your car really is, then yes, pop it in 3rd
he's talking about a ricer not a vette...
even in 4th, you'll be able to smoke any ricer you see on the freeway
but if you want to show them how fast your car really is, then yes, pop it in 3rd
06-18-02, 05:41 AM
#43
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Originally posted by 93TTRX7
You want to be in a high rpm at all times when you're racing. Higher RPM's go faster which is just common sense. You have to find the gear you're gonna be in the highest RPM in without reaching redline, rev match, then downshift into it. Lower gears always go faster so naturally you're gonna put it in 3rd instead of 4th. I will put it into 3rd until 80 mph. Around 90 or so I will put it in 4th. it's just common sense...make sre you rev match. Raise your rpm to around 4k or so then downshift into the desired gear. But usually on the freeway you're gonna downshift into 3rd. Depends what you race, if it's something slow i'd put it in 4th, if it's a challenge go into 3rd. You have to remember that you drive a rotary and it likes high revs
You want to be in a high rpm at all times when you're racing. Higher RPM's go faster which is just common sense. You have to find the gear you're gonna be in the highest RPM in without reaching redline, rev match, then downshift into it. Lower gears always go faster so naturally you're gonna put it in 3rd instead of 4th. I will put it into 3rd until 80 mph. Around 90 or so I will put it in 4th. it's just common sense...make sre you rev match. Raise your rpm to around 4k or so then downshift into the desired gear. But usually on the freeway you're gonna downshift into 3rd. Depends what you race, if it's something slow i'd put it in 4th, if it's a challenge go into 3rd. You have to remember that you drive a rotary and it likes high revs
Another point that ought to be taken into consideration is what sort of car you're about to race... why bother dropping into 3rd when a civic pulls up next to you? 4th (or really even 5th) gear is enough to put a civic to shame. If it's a vette or something of that nature, 3rd is the obvious choice for maximum acceleration.
my 2c
06-18-02, 10:39 AM
#45
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OK just to clarify my original post.
I am no dummy and I know how to ride/drive
or what ever the case maybe..
I know how to Heal/Toe, rev matching
or what ever.. I have had 3 street bikes
And used to roadrace @ summit point
during WERA and AMA events. Heal/Toe,
Rev matching comes naturally to me.
its the way I drive. But there are times
where I don't and just jam it in gear and
WOT. MOst people have also.. " don't lie"
I guess I should of been more specific on my
original post.
I admit I baby my car probalby more than most
while on the road. I don't dog my vehicles
or abuse them. I learned my lessons of abusing
cars i used to have. especially my 87 Buick GN
3.8L V6 Turbo..
Anyways..
I know Rotary's love RPMS and etc.
I know about power curves and etc.
I also know HOW " fragile" Fd3s'S CAN BE.
So for you uptight SCCA Champs, and road coarse
kings and 1/4 mile monsters.. I'll rephrase my question.
" is it good/bad or ok to down shift a 13btwinturbo motor,turbo, transmission in the upper RPM's like 6K or above???"
BTW: when I said " ricer" I really meant anyone who
wants to play. I don't know what it is. I can't find any
RICERS on the road to play. For me its usually some
Kinda V8, 5.0's camaro T/A's n Vettes..
Thanks for everyones responses.
I am no dummy and I know how to ride/drive
or what ever the case maybe..
I know how to Heal/Toe, rev matching
or what ever.. I have had 3 street bikes
And used to roadrace @ summit point
during WERA and AMA events. Heal/Toe,
Rev matching comes naturally to me.
its the way I drive. But there are times
where I don't and just jam it in gear and
WOT. MOst people have also.. " don't lie"
I guess I should of been more specific on my
original post.
I admit I baby my car probalby more than most
while on the road. I don't dog my vehicles
or abuse them. I learned my lessons of abusing
cars i used to have. especially my 87 Buick GN
3.8L V6 Turbo..
Anyways..
I know Rotary's love RPMS and etc.
I know about power curves and etc.
I also know HOW " fragile" Fd3s'S CAN BE.
So for you uptight SCCA Champs, and road coarse
kings and 1/4 mile monsters.. I'll rephrase my question.
" is it good/bad or ok to down shift a 13btwinturbo motor,turbo, transmission in the upper RPM's like 6K or above???"
BTW: when I said " ricer" I really meant anyone who
wants to play. I don't know what it is. I can't find any
RICERS on the road to play. For me its usually some
Kinda V8, 5.0's camaro T/A's n Vettes..
Thanks for everyones responses.
06-18-02, 01:52 PM
#46
To answer your question:
Yes, it is okay to downshift a 13B-REW into upper RPMs as long as you are giving it gas and don't just pop the clutch and go immediately from vacuum at about 2000 rpm up to WOT on boost at 6000 rpm... Something tells me that it wouldn't be too good for the engine or turbos. The transmission is another factor and that is going to be fine as long as you are matching the shift with suffiencient engine rpm so you don't put a shock on the gears, bearings, etc...
I apologize for any suggestion of your lack of experience, but with the original post, it appeared as if you didn't have any understanding of what actually went on behind the gas pedal or shift ****.
Richard
I can't even get the V8s, 5.0s, Vettes, etc... to race, it's boring around here...
Yes, it is okay to downshift a 13B-REW into upper RPMs as long as you are giving it gas and don't just pop the clutch and go immediately from vacuum at about 2000 rpm up to WOT on boost at 6000 rpm... Something tells me that it wouldn't be too good for the engine or turbos. The transmission is another factor and that is going to be fine as long as you are matching the shift with suffiencient engine rpm so you don't put a shock on the gears, bearings, etc...
I apologize for any suggestion of your lack of experience, but with the original post, it appeared as if you didn't have any understanding of what actually went on behind the gas pedal or shift ****.
Richard
I can't even get the V8s, 5.0s, Vettes, etc... to race, it's boring around here...
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