Does 500 rwhp make an FD more enjoyable to drive? (13b only)
#526
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Just a quick correction. The green on the Porsche posted earlier is not lime green. It's signal green (a little more neutral than lime green). However it is my favorite color for the Porsche. Loud, but not outrageously loud. I especially love this one with iForged wheels with signal green accents.
Only car I'd rather have than my FD.
In fact, I like the color so much I'm trying to imagine what it would look like on the FD. Thoughts?
Only car I'd rather have than my FD.
In fact, I like the color so much I'm trying to imagine what it would look like on the FD. Thoughts?
Last edited by Alex_Polska; 11-26-10 at 10:51 PM.
#527
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Alex, didn't know what the actual color of the car was called, thanks for the correction but I'm liable to forget it. I made an rx7 in forza 3 that was roughly the same colo and while it isn't a fair representation of the car in real life, I thought it looked pretty good sans spoiler. Neutral colors are generally pleasing to the eye because they don't give you a headache when you look at them, cym is a good example of this. Its a softer yellow similar to how signal green is a softer green than lime green. I think green is a color that hasn't really been explored on FDs that could potentially lead to some really good looking, stock bodied cars.
the current aston v8 is defintiely one of the best sounding v8s on the market.
the current aston v8 is defintiely one of the best sounding v8s on the market.
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Haha! I was actually trying to find the name of the color a few weeks earlier so I typed in "GT3 green color code" on google and came up with the signal green result. When someone posted the GT3 earlier and said it was lime green I was like "no it's not" and was starting to correct him when I realized I forgot the name of the color. LOL. So I googled the same thing and came up with the same result, again.
Just wanted to share my "Cool story bro" moment.
This is probably really confusing with the same avatar as Punkrock...
Just wanted to share my "Cool story bro" moment.
This is probably really confusing with the same avatar as Punkrock...
#529
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Fritz... They have always made track versions (and, of course, being Aston, they will do virtually anything the wallet will bear) called the N400 when it had the 4.3L motor and now, the N420 with the 4.7L motor. The current stock coupe does 0-60 o 4 seconds flat on to a 12.5 second quarter at 115 and an eventual 185. The N420 is quicker and much more track oriented.
You can't buy the v12's at reasonable prices at all. They are still around $200+ anyway you cut it. They are THE hot Eurotoy this year. The V12 engine bay is really crowded like the FD engine bay and while its cooled better and reinforced and all, its not for me this time. The V8 is a few hundred pounds lighter and not that much less horsepower. You can tweak the motor to over 475 with a few bolt ons and the car is then way faster than I would ever need. Sort of like the FD with over 375 whp. Its faster than you'll ever need for anything but track time.
Anyway, lastly, I'm a rev freak. The 4.7L revs to about 7500 stock and it can pull 8000 with a little work. That's Rx7 territory and with a dual overhead cam flat plane crank V8 that's a wailing sound that I like better than the V12 sound in this case. This motor is one of the best sporting small block V8's ever made. I can only think of one other stock small block V8 that makes more power and that's the Ferrari 4.3L motor that makes 480 at 8500. But, the Aston 4.7 is still a remarkable V8 and an extremely fast car. Faster, stock, than the old Modenas, certainly. Handling like a slightly bigger FD.
Gordon
You can't buy the v12's at reasonable prices at all. They are still around $200+ anyway you cut it. They are THE hot Eurotoy this year. The V12 engine bay is really crowded like the FD engine bay and while its cooled better and reinforced and all, its not for me this time. The V8 is a few hundred pounds lighter and not that much less horsepower. You can tweak the motor to over 475 with a few bolt ons and the car is then way faster than I would ever need. Sort of like the FD with over 375 whp. Its faster than you'll ever need for anything but track time.
Anyway, lastly, I'm a rev freak. The 4.7L revs to about 7500 stock and it can pull 8000 with a little work. That's Rx7 territory and with a dual overhead cam flat plane crank V8 that's a wailing sound that I like better than the V12 sound in this case. This motor is one of the best sporting small block V8's ever made. I can only think of one other stock small block V8 that makes more power and that's the Ferrari 4.3L motor that makes 480 at 8500. But, the Aston 4.7 is still a remarkable V8 and an extremely fast car. Faster, stock, than the old Modenas, certainly. Handling like a slightly bigger FD.
Gordon
Not enough positives when compared to a GT3 and besides if I wanted something a little more luxury oriented I'd just go 4 seats and get the m3 which also has a great sounding high revving v8 and can be found easily for 50k.
Test drive a 997 GT3 preferably the RS you can easily afford it and I think you'd love it 911s have come a long way. If I didn't have a family to worry about I'd definitely have one right now and it would be sitting next to some sort of FD
#530
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I like the Vantage, but it's a bit too "upscale" - a true sports car needs to be more raw and hard edged - the Noble M600 may be the perfect sports car right now, short of a Koenigsegg (which the M600 clearly borrows from to some degree)
http://www.koenigsegg.com/
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Anyway....did I mention cold nights make these cars feel like they have another 80 rwhp? December is prime time FD weather.
#533
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Which is why it's an endless do-loop argument. It's already been shown a "well set-up" stock class Cayman S, let alone a GT3, can beat a 350 rwhp FD at Mosport.
Anyway....did I mention cold nights make these cars feel like they have another 80 rwhp? December is prime time FD weather.
Anyway....did I mention cold nights make these cars feel like they have another 80 rwhp? December is prime time FD weather.
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End of argument
#537
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Also, while some seem to like the Noble M600, there are, as others have pointed out, a host of similarly priced and similar performing cars on the market today. (I mentioned RCR and would add Rossion as a player, as well: http://rossioncars.com/models.php Their car does 0-60 in 3.1 seconds and 11 second quarter at 125 and 1.1 G cornering and all that stuff and costs $73,000.)
The M600 is "overpriced", but if it's a relative success, it paves the way for other manufacturers to pay attention
Last edited by no_more_rice; 11-29-10 at 01:02 AM.
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Which is why it's an endless do-loop argument. It's already been shown a "well set-up" stock class Cayman S, let alone a GT3, can beat a 350 rwhp FD at Mosport.
Anyway....did I mention cold nights make these cars feel like they have another 80 rwhp? December is prime time FD weather.
Anyway....did I mention cold nights make these cars feel like they have another 80 rwhp? December is prime time FD weather.
Yes I'd like to own a GT3 for all the reason I previously mentioned and I don't mind being a little slower than well prepped FD, a honda civic or someones grandmother on a lawnmower because there will always be someone faster at the track. Maybe it could be you in your non sequential FD LOL.
PS Yes this weather is awesome for power but turn the boost down and save your engines
#539
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I will NEVER build an LSX 7 of any kind but I'll absolutely buy Blackey's car if it goes up for sale, well umm for the right price of course However if I was driving a big block car Ideally I'd want a viper because that's what a big block is about. As soon as I became accustomed to a big women I'd just want more so I may as well just start out with the biggest booty
PS I really don't think it's a rediculous point though because converting one of these cars correctly isn't easy and I actually have MUCH respect for the C5 and C6 Z as they are both wonderful cars.
#540
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It just echoes back to the mouth breathers screaming at people to JUST BUY A CAMARO OR MUSTANG...
I've never understood that argument...they must not hold the rx7 in high esteem if they think a camaro or mustang will be a comparable car.
The c6z is a fantastic car, but not something I'd want to own. For the track you could probably build something much faster with the money you'd spend, and on the street I think an rx7 would be more fun.
Sorry for the attack
I've never understood that argument...they must not hold the rx7 in high esteem if they think a camaro or mustang will be a comparable car.
The c6z is a fantastic car, but not something I'd want to own. For the track you could probably build something much faster with the money you'd spend, and on the street I think an rx7 would be more fun.
Sorry for the attack
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You didn't win anything. You claim to have beaten a stock GT3 (you didn't mention the year of the car), with some magazine test guy at the wheel - the skill of those people are all over the map, meanwhile you've been around VIR who knows how many hundreds of times. Time to come back to reality.
Again, strawman arguments; I never said that. I said a stock class Cayman S beat wird's best time, despite all his boasting about "destroying" GT3s. Yes, I'd like to see your lap times vs. GT3 lap times for the same racing class (or similar class). A magazine tester's times mean exactly nothing.
but also a cayman s racecar
Last edited by no_more_rice; 11-29-10 at 11:31 AM.
#542
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A little off-topic, but I had to post this vid of the 2011 ZX-10R, which I'll be picking up shortly. Wanna truly "destroy" a GT3 for cheap? Here's how you do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTy_c...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTy_c...eature=related
#544
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You didn't win anything. You claim to have beaten a stock GT3 (you didn't mention the year of the car), with some magazine test guy at the wheel - the skill of those people are all over the map, meanwhile you've been around VIR who knows how many hundreds of times. Time to come back to reality.
Again, strawman arguments; I never said that. I said a stock class Cayman S beat wird's best time, despite all his boasting about "destroying" GT3s. Yes, I'd like to see your lap times vs. GT3 lap times for the same racing class (or similar class). A magazine tester's times mean exactly nothing.
Again, strawman arguments; I never said that. I said a stock class Cayman S beat wird's best time, despite all his boasting about "destroying" GT3s. Yes, I'd like to see your lap times vs. GT3 lap times for the same racing class (or similar class). A magazine tester's times mean exactly nothing.
Check the link I provided and you'll see the year of the GT3 but as I recall we were arguing about the STOCK 997 GT3 being a faster track car than the well setup 350 rwhp FD and then you started comparing cup cars, caymans, motorcycles......... I can't keep track of the various directions you'll take a generally simple argument.
Again please consider the following:
I was using old staggerd tires (versus a fresh balanced setup that's atleast a 2 second difference on over a 4 mile track)
I was carrying a passenger
My car has not been aligned in 3 or 4 years
I don't make 350 (more like 330)
I was faster by 2 full seconds
Most magazines hire top pro drivers and any pro mag driver is no joke
I have a superior power to weight
The FD handles better
I probably have better aero (GTC wing and front bumper)
The GT3 certainly has the gearing and torque edge along with superb braking but those are essentially it's only advantages when comparing it to a track prepped FD with bolt ons.
OK I'll bite and say that I believe if you setup these two cars equally to run in the same racing class with equal drivers the FD would win if it didn't DNF The reason I want a GT3 and have the utmost respect for it is that it's a born race car but please give the FD credit where it's due because it's a phenominal road racer.
I have an idea, go buy GT5 and maybe some of this stuff will start to make sense
#545
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A little off-topic, but I had to post this vid of the 2011 ZX-10R, which I'll be picking up shortly. Wanna truly "destroy" a GT3 for cheap? Here's how you do it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTy_c...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTy_c...eature=related
A 1.37 lap at RA isn't going to destroy a GT3 and certainly not a 350 rwd FD (brent will run a 1.34 this weekend in his 330 rwd FD) but nice try. I'll provide all the proof you need if necessary
The one thing you're forgetting is the bikes have a little trouble in the corners hehe.
#546
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These seems to be some ongoing assumption that there's some "magic" in a GT3 that's insurmountable, and there isn't. There's actually nothing remarkable about it from a design perspective—it isn't a carbon fiber monocoque that would provide unmatchable stiffness or platform weight, and doesn't have advanced ground effects like a McLaren F1 or some of the new Ferraris that would be difficult to "bolt on" to another car.
It's a steel unibody car, with a less than ideal engine placement (that the manufacturer has spent 30 years engineering around to great affect), and McPherson struts for goodness sake.
From there, all Porsche has essentially done is "pre mod" the thing as a well engineered package. That's what you pay $100k+ for.
What is/was special about the FD, as has been said, is the base design—a light platform and superior (mid engined) configuration, with a very advanced suspension design. In that respect, there's actually more "magic" in it than the GT3. You ad the correlating componentry—similar brakes, aero, and power, and you've got a car that will compete with the stock GT3 absolutely on lap time. Yes, you're comparing a modded car to a stock one, but that's the ballancing affect of 17 years and $50k purchase price.
Talking about any particular car, be it a Cayman racecar, The Wird's car, or Fritz's car is really not the point. Individual cars and individual drivers are what they are. The fact is, there is no intrinsic aspect of the GT3 that makes it better. It's just a steel unibodied car, with a rear engine and McPherson struts. There's no advantage in any of that.
You drive on track enough, and you understand where other car's capabilities compare to your own. I've never witnessed an instance where a GT3 (or many other street cars) obviously display a capability that the FD won't match. They don't change direction better, or hold a higher peak lateral force. They tend to brake better, and accelerate off the apex, whereas the FD is more of a momentum car with the dynamics to maintain momentum well.
It's a steel unibody car, with a less than ideal engine placement (that the manufacturer has spent 30 years engineering around to great affect), and McPherson struts for goodness sake.
From there, all Porsche has essentially done is "pre mod" the thing as a well engineered package. That's what you pay $100k+ for.
What is/was special about the FD, as has been said, is the base design—a light platform and superior (mid engined) configuration, with a very advanced suspension design. In that respect, there's actually more "magic" in it than the GT3. You ad the correlating componentry—similar brakes, aero, and power, and you've got a car that will compete with the stock GT3 absolutely on lap time. Yes, you're comparing a modded car to a stock one, but that's the ballancing affect of 17 years and $50k purchase price.
Talking about any particular car, be it a Cayman racecar, The Wird's car, or Fritz's car is really not the point. Individual cars and individual drivers are what they are. The fact is, there is no intrinsic aspect of the GT3 that makes it better. It's just a steel unibodied car, with a rear engine and McPherson struts. There's no advantage in any of that.
You drive on track enough, and you understand where other car's capabilities compare to your own. I've never witnessed an instance where a GT3 (or many other street cars) obviously display a capability that the FD won't match. They don't change direction better, or hold a higher peak lateral force. They tend to brake better, and accelerate off the apex, whereas the FD is more of a momentum car with the dynamics to maintain momentum well.
#548
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These seems to be some ongoing assumption that there's some "magic" in a GT3 that's insurmountable, and there isn't. There's actually nothing remarkable about it from a design perspective—it isn't a carbon fiber monocoque that would provide unmatchable stiffness or platform weight, and doesn't have advanced ground effects like a McLaren F1 or some of the new Ferraris that would be difficult to "bolt on" to another car.
It's a steel unibody car, with a less than ideal engine placement (that the manufacturer has spent 30 years engineering around to great affect), and McPherson struts for goodness sake.
From there, all Porsche has essentially done is "pre mod" the thing as a well engineered package. That's what you pay $100k+ for.
What is/was special about the FD, as has been said, is the base design—a light platform and superior (mid engined) configuration, with a very advanced suspension design. In that respect, there's actually more "magic" in it than the GT3. You ad the correlating componentry—similar brakes, aero, and power, and you've got a car that will compete with the stock GT3 absolutely on lap time. Yes, you're comparing a modded car to a stock one, but that's the ballancing affect of 17 years and $50k purchase price.
Talking about any particular car, be it a Cayman racecar, The Wird's car, or Fritz's car is really not the point. Individual cars and individual drivers are what they are. The fact is, there is no intrinsic aspect of the GT3 that makes it better. It's just a steel unibodied car, with a rear engine and McPherson struts. There's no advantage in any of that.
You drive on track enough, and you understand where other car's capabilities compare to your own. I've never witnessed an instance where a GT3 (or many other street cars) obviously display a capability that the FD won't match. They don't change direction better, or hold a higher peak lateral force. They tend to brake better, and accelerate off the apex, whereas the FD is more of a momentum car with the dynamics to maintain momentum well.
It's a steel unibody car, with a less than ideal engine placement (that the manufacturer has spent 30 years engineering around to great affect), and McPherson struts for goodness sake.
From there, all Porsche has essentially done is "pre mod" the thing as a well engineered package. That's what you pay $100k+ for.
What is/was special about the FD, as has been said, is the base design—a light platform and superior (mid engined) configuration, with a very advanced suspension design. In that respect, there's actually more "magic" in it than the GT3. You ad the correlating componentry—similar brakes, aero, and power, and you've got a car that will compete with the stock GT3 absolutely on lap time. Yes, you're comparing a modded car to a stock one, but that's the ballancing affect of 17 years and $50k purchase price.
Talking about any particular car, be it a Cayman racecar, The Wird's car, or Fritz's car is really not the point. Individual cars and individual drivers are what they are. The fact is, there is no intrinsic aspect of the GT3 that makes it better. It's just a steel unibodied car, with a rear engine and McPherson struts. There's no advantage in any of that.
You drive on track enough, and you understand where other car's capabilities compare to your own. I've never witnessed an instance where a GT3 (or many other street cars) obviously display a capability that the FD won't match. They don't change direction better, or hold a higher peak lateral force. They tend to brake better, and accelerate off the apex, whereas the FD is more of a momentum car with the dynamics to maintain momentum well.
#549
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Peter... I want to apologize for the upcoming self aggrandizement and mention that I am somewhat overwhelmed to see the correct usage of "affect" in a post on the forum... Just not used to it.
There are a few of us who have been saying what Peter has put so eloquently. The FD is as remarkable a car today as it was new. Its basics are top-of-class and essentially superior to a GT3. Only the horsepower wars and braking advances separate it from the best of the new and that can be easily fixed with BBK's and more power.
The real attraction of the GT3 for me is just the motor. I love the sound of a boxer at high revs. The flat six can hit 8000 rpm and the sound and feel as it comes on the cam is spectacular. Then, its just down to it being the most raw of Porsches and most like the original 911S and later RS and RSR cars.
Gordon
There are a few of us who have been saying what Peter has put so eloquently. The FD is as remarkable a car today as it was new. Its basics are top-of-class and essentially superior to a GT3. Only the horsepower wars and braking advances separate it from the best of the new and that can be easily fixed with BBK's and more power.
The real attraction of the GT3 for me is just the motor. I love the sound of a boxer at high revs. The flat six can hit 8000 rpm and the sound and feel as it comes on the cam is spectacular. Then, its just down to it being the most raw of Porsches and most like the original 911S and later RS and RSR cars.
Gordon
#550
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Actually gordon, affect was not used properly in Peter's post (although it was a spot on post). :P Affect is a verb, whereas effect is *typically* a noun most often meaning "result". Up above it should have been "balancing effect."
Example - no_more_rice is unable to affect your perspective of the FD. Another example - Trying to talk some sense into him is futile because it has no effect.
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/affect.html
Ok, I'm done being the grammar **** now. Carry on!
Example - no_more_rice is unable to affect your perspective of the FD. Another example - Trying to talk some sense into him is futile because it has no effect.
http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/affect.html
Ok, I'm done being the grammar **** now. Carry on!