Brake Ducting
#1
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Brake Ducting
I'm wondering what some of you are doing for brake ducting. I see that Nick at N-Tech makes a backing plate for directing air to the rotors, but @ $225 is seems a bit steep. That being said, i don't see any other options for a true duct to the rotors.
I was looking at the stuff here at Pegasus' site and thinking of just running some 3" neoprene hose using some air inlets from the R1 lip (under the oil cooler ducts).
I was looking at the stuff here at Pegasus' site and thinking of just running some 3" neoprene hose using some air inlets from the R1 lip (under the oil cooler ducts).
Last edited by Section8; 05-03-06 at 01:44 PM.
#2
Rotary Freak
After experiencing brake fade, for the first time, at 100 mph on the track (also my first track event), I spriug for N-tech's rotor ducting plates. I have yet to install them. I also bought some of Nick's lapping day pads.
#3
Rotary Enthusiast
I use the N-tech backing plates with some custom scoops with good results:
See post 44 of the following thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15
See post 44 of the following thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15
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Originally Posted by jpandes
After experiencing brake fade, for the first time, at 100 mph on the track (also my first track event), I spriug for N-tech's rotor ducting plates. I have yet to install them. I also bought some of Nick's lapping day pads.
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Originally Posted by jpandes
After experiencing brake fade, for the first time, at 100 mph on the track (also my first track event), I spriug for N-tech's rotor ducting plates. I have yet to install them. I also bought some of Nick's lapping day pads.
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Originally Posted by John Magnuson
I use the N-tech backing plates with some custom scoops with good results:
See post 44 of the following thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15
See post 44 of the following thread:
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...6&page=3&pp=15
#7
The Anti-Prius
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Originally Posted by neofreak
What fluid were you using?
Boiling fluid will make a soft pedal.
Fade is a hard pedal, but with reduced braking effectiveness.
Most street pads are designed to be quiet with low dust. They are only effective from ambient to 400°F.
Repeated stops from above 100 mph will easily exceed that temp.
Hawk HP + pads optimum operational temperature range is 100-800 degrees F
Performance Friction #97 pads are effective from 167°F and can reach 2000°F
I run the Hawks on the street & autocross events. I switch to the Performance Frictions on lapping days.
I have the 99 nose & lip with the stock brake backing plates. No additional ducting.
Depending on how hot you get your brakes & what pads your using will determine if you "need" ducts.
Last edited by Sled Driver; 05-03-06 at 02:40 PM.
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#8
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Originally Posted by Sled Driver
It's not the fluid, it's the pads that determine fade.
Boiling fluid will make a soft pedal.
Fade is a hard pedal, but with reduced braking effectiveness.
Most street pads are designed to be quiet with low dust. They are only effective from ambient to 400°F.
Repeated stops from above 100 mph will easily exceed that temp.
Hawk HP + pads optimum operational temperature range is 100-800 degrees F
Performance Friction #97 pads are effective from 167°F and can reach 2000°F
I run the Hawks on the street & autocross events. I switch to the Performance Frictions on lapping days
Boiling fluid will make a soft pedal.
Fade is a hard pedal, but with reduced braking effectiveness.
Most street pads are designed to be quiet with low dust. They are only effective from ambient to 400°F.
Repeated stops from above 100 mph will easily exceed that temp.
Hawk HP + pads optimum operational temperature range is 100-800 degrees F
Performance Friction #97 pads are effective from 167°F and can reach 2000°F
I run the Hawks on the street & autocross events. I switch to the Performance Frictions on lapping days
Neither is very confidence inspiring.
#10
Rotary Freak
Originally Posted by Mahjik
Section8,
Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.
Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.
#11
The Anti-Prius
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Originally Posted by Section8
Actually, fluid boiling IS fade. There is pad fade where you have a firm pedal but the car just doesn't stop, and then there is fluid fade where your fluid boils and creates air bubbles in lines - making the pedal soft.
Neither is very confidence inspiring.
Neither is very confidence inspiring.
Got this from
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a “soft” brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates “pumping the brake pedal” in order to get a pedal at all.
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
Section8,
Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.
Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.
I was just at VIR using porterfield R4 pads on Victoracer V700s and experienced no fade. I did get some pad fade however when i toasted the front R4 pads and had to swap in my hawk HP+ spare pads.
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Originally Posted by Sled Driver
Fluid fade??? Did you just make that up???
Got this from
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a “soft” brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates “pumping the brake pedal” in order to get a pedal at all.
Got this from
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp...fluid_1a.shtml
Overheated brake fluid can (and will) boil in the caliper. Boiling produces gas bubbles within any boiling fluid. Gas is compressible so boiling brake fluid leads to a “soft” brake pedal with long travel. In extreme cases overheated brake fluid necessitates “pumping the brake pedal” in order to get a pedal at all.
If i am wrong, i stand corrected.
#14
Mr. Links
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Originally Posted by Section8
No i didn't make it up. I don't claim to be an expert, but I've heard several people refer to what you discribe as fluid fade.
If i am wrong, i stand corrected.
If i am wrong, i stand corrected.
However, boiling the brake fluid gives the same response as "pad fade" with just different circumstances, so they usually refer to that as "brake fade" off the record (not to be confused with "Pad Fade").
#15
Polishing Fiend
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Originally Posted by Mahjik
Section8,
Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.
Don't worry about brake ducting until you are out-driving your brake pads (i.e. track pads). And then, verify that it's a cooling problem verses a "using the brake improperly" problem.
Crispy
#16
I too have N-Tech ducts waiting to go on, been laying around for almost a year now. Fingers crossed they will work, but can't comment yet.
Since getting the lapping pads from Nick I haven't been on track (have to rectify that soon) I'm really hard on brakes when on track - lost Hawk pads after one lap at Spa (with a whole 180rwhp), and boiled RBF600 after a handful of laps at Knockhill which also overheated the rear tyres. My first outings on track (many years ago) were against the clock and I've never got out of the maximum attack approach to slowing down :o
Since getting the lapping pads from Nick I haven't been on track (have to rectify that soon) I'm really hard on brakes when on track - lost Hawk pads after one lap at Spa (with a whole 180rwhp), and boiled RBF600 after a handful of laps at Knockhill which also overheated the rear tyres. My first outings on track (many years ago) were against the clock and I've never got out of the maximum attack approach to slowing down :o
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Originally Posted by Section8
I'm wondering what some of you are doing for brake ducting. I see that Nick at N-Tech makes a backing plate for directing air to the rotors, but @ $225 is seems a bit steep. That being said, i don't see any other options for a true duct to the rotors.
I was looking at the stuff here at Pegasus' site and thinking of just running some 3" neoprene hose using some air inlets from the R1 lip (under the oil cooler ducts).
I was looking at the stuff here at Pegasus' site and thinking of just running some 3" neoprene hose using some air inlets from the R1 lip (under the oil cooler ducts).
#18
Rotary Enthusiast
Or you have to love it when your pads melt after a couple sessions even with no fade!
yes, you need some type of backing place like Ntech sells in order to have your ducting work effectively. It's a bit tricky to make and I think you're best of just buying from Ntech than trying to do it yourself.
My front ducts were custom made by a friend and very labor intensive. I tried a few different setups first but I'm happy with my current setup.
yes, you need some type of backing place like Ntech sells in order to have your ducting work effectively. It's a bit tricky to make and I think you're best of just buying from Ntech than trying to do it yourself.
My front ducts were custom made by a friend and very labor intensive. I tried a few different setups first but I'm happy with my current setup.
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Thanks for all the input guys. I think i'll heed the advice and hold off until i'm either killing rotors with heat or can justify $225 for the backing plates (hey, that's a track day right there almost ;p )
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ducts
FWIW, I have a guy working on the front ducts that John Mag. had designed/fabricated for his car (I bought the templates his fabricator made!). I should have his 1st pair on Saturday. He won't be making them quite as nice/pretty as Johns, but they should be just as functional. If folks are interested, I'll start another thread and maybe see if there is interest in a group buy.
-Ken
-Ken
#22
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by 1FunR1
FWIW, I have a guy working on the front ducts that John Mag. had designed/fabricated for his car (I bought the templates his fabricator made!). I should have his 1st pair on Saturday. He won't be making them quite as nice/pretty as Johns, but they should be just as functional. If folks are interested, I'll start another thread and maybe see if there is interest in a group buy.
-Ken
-Ken
#24
Track junkie
Originally Posted by 1FunR1
FWIW, I have a guy working on the front ducts that John Mag. had designed/fabricated for his car (I bought the templates his fabricator made!). I should have his 1st pair on Saturday. He won't be making them quite as nice/pretty as Johns, but they should be just as functional. If folks are interested, I'll start another thread and maybe see if there is interest in a group buy.
-Ken
-Ken