My car has 65K miles and well my stock twins are starting to leak bit of oil. Rather then messing with them I was thinking of picking up a set of low mileage or twins, or, or I could slap on some bar's instead. Car is all stock other than a DP. Question is can I run the bnr's on the stock (93) ecu, stock fuel system etc?
I'd be limiting boost of course
I need a new set of twins soon.
FAQ: have you considered going single? Yes, I have and might later on in life but for now I'm convinced the twins are better than sex.
Aren't you wanting more power? Of course we all like power, but I prefer to not have a peaky engine and yes, I know that a well sized single makes more HP at the same psi.

 

Yes, you should be able to run the BNRs. Though you may want to consider an ECU upgrade with something modern, just because.

 

You will have to be very careful about limiting boost. The BNR's will exceed your stock fuel delivery system very quickly.

 

I'm considering a ms3 or a adaptronic ecu down the road, and of course supporting mods.

 

I've been running bnrs on my stock setup with a Petite chipped ecu since 2008. no problema. all day. every day.

 

Sounds tempting since the Petit is cheaper and seems it won't require tuning. How much boost are you running, and is this a SEQ. setup?

Thanks for your input

 

Ive ran 12-13lbs on the latest BNRs with pettit ecu AND Water/Meth. Injectors had to be at the limit but couldnt hear detonation.

 

This. Install dual MBC's and bypass the BC solenoids if you're not upgrading ECU.

Yeah, but a PFC will give you invaluable data via the commander for diagnosis and prolonging engine life. Best mod I've ever done to a car. Well worth the money for a used one.

 

hi what is an MBC and a BC? is BC 'boost control'? and why would you bypass it?

I have rebuild OE twins and like you rxmiles, i like the wide powerband and it also of course suits the spirit of the car. so i like your concept. i have a PFC and just bought a datalogit (not yet installed!). I don't know much but without an ECU change, I'd want at least a boost gauge and a wideband AF ratio gauge in front of me.

Depending on your timeframe the cheaper pettit mod might be wiser than doing nothing -- if it's going to be a while you could resell it then perhaps.

And I would ask if I were doing (I do not know the answers):
(1) are bigger wastegates needed? or not?
(2) is an aftermarket blow off valve needed?

Another thought/question has anyone done parallel turbos? i know it's maybe silly but the car came with two turbos and instead of sequential, it would be very simple to set up. given they would be smaller would that help reduce lag? less but some? perhaps just "low yield" economically? i know these are done on some new production cars, but i guess those are V engines and it may be in part for plumbing reasons. but it would keep a bit of the factory look (2 intakes).

 

It don't recommend it, but you can make it work if you limit the boost to 9 or 10 lbs or so. Get a boost and afr gauge. Or just put around until you are able to get a fuel system and real ecu. I do have a group buy on the BNR Stage 3s right now for $1800.

 

The Pettit ecu is like 1996 technology..... The Power FC is worlds better and the commander gives you a lot of flexibility to monitor things like battery voltage, water temps, and knock readings.

 

MBC = manual boost controller like a Hallman. BC = boost control. You would bypass your BC solenoids IF your ECU isn't capable of changing their duty cycle OR you just want manual, analog control of your wastegates.

I don't know enough about the Pettit ECU to say whether it controls solenoid duty cycles or not.

I have a PFC, but I still use dual MBC's because they just work and I am not relying on yet another solenoid.

Yeah, people do non-sequential castrations. Never have, never will.

 

Not to mention the Pettit ecu can't control larger injectors.

 

1 - you cant just "put on a bigger wastegate" with the way the twins are setup. Best you can do without major modification is to increase the size of the wastegate ports with a dremel or similar.

2 - no

3 - when the twins are run in parallel, we call that "non-sequential". search non sequential conversion and you will find multiple how-to's, pro's and cons etc etc. In short it increases lag, but reduces complexity. Maximum power potential is slightly more. Many people go non-sequential due to not being able to fix gremlins with their sequential system, or starting with a car that's not complete.
Not many people go from a properly functioning sequential system to a non-seq system.

 

Just want to chime in

I went from Pettit Unlimited to a PFC and the difference was definitely noticeable. Smoother idle, easier starting, easier on the spark plugs and cat, etc. The stock Pettit ECU is 8bit, and the PFC is 16bit.

No BNRs for me, though. Mine are Pettit turbos, which are just stock ones that have been blueprinted, ceramic coated and port n polished.

 

^ Reduced idle quality is something other posters have mentioned when switching from stock CPU to PFC. Nice to hear that isn't always the case.

 

Idle issues are almost always caused by the tune and improper throttle body adjustment. I've never had them caused by an ecu itself that was working properly. Even my race ported engines idle solid between 900-1000. Smaller have a stable idle lower.

 

Thruth

Personally I'd be nervous running BNRs without an ECU upgrade or a wideband...

 

I'd certainly be running a wideband and the stock ECU would be just for a little time. I actually don't really drive the car that much so it might not even get driven until the ECU is upgraded. BNR's are quite pricey and for the money I could buy a nice BB turbo, but the there's the cost of manifolds, IC etc. They're spendy but seem nice.

 

$2100 retail for bolt on 400hp+ capable turbos is a steal if you ask me. A solid single turbo kit will run you $3000-4000 unless you buy ebay junk. Turbo, manifold, downpipe, oil and coolant lines, hardware, modified intercooler piping, etc. Adds up. I have the BNRs on sale right now for $1800.

 

When will the group by close/ expire? I'm out of the country for a little bit, but do want them. I have the money but I'd rather wait for my bonus checks to come in to clear expenses.

 

Actually they are not if you really think about it. New OEM replacements are like $3k and rebuilt ones (at least back in the day) were $1700 (and are worthless). So a set of BNRs are actually cheaper and superior to OEM.

As you and ihor mentioned when you go single at a bare minimum you need a DP, exhaust manifold, injectors, wastegate, custom piping leading to the IC, an ECU, and an intake. With the BNRs at a bare minimum all you need is an ECU.

 

I haven't decided but probably through March.

 

 

What are fuel options for a BNR setup if you're retaining emissions? I was thinking of going with a secondary fuel rail + 1680s/2000s or something, but heard there is a fitment issue with the ACV.. putting 850s in the primary or bored out 850s in the secondary good enough? Any issues with the bored injectors (heard maybe they aren't as 'smooth' or something as a modern unit)?