yes that and do u have water injection?

 

>>Very true. Have you ever run a diff manifold? I've been hounding Stephen forever now to get Bryan to make a custom hi-flow manifold. I bet you can get more outta the STOCKERS too w/ a better manifold, cuz I'm sure they can flow much more than we get outta them.<<

Well, most of the restriction in in the exhaust turbine housings.

>>We have a car here that made 378 RWHP on a Dynojet with stock turbos, ported motor and 16lbs of boost. The issue is that the stock turbos at that much boost create to much heat and warp the internals on the turbos. I have had a bunch of stock turbos come in for rebuilds that have had excessive heat damage from running too much boost.
Jason<<

The heat you talk about is generated on the exhaust side. Turbine inlet pressure simply shoots thru the roof after ~17psi and this explains how the hp gains drop as boost is increased.
So now tell me this issue does not apply to the "new" BNRs.........
The durability of the twins depends on their abuse....
Race a set at constant 14psi of boost on the highway day after day and race one set @ 17psi very few times a week and watch the 1st set get replaced first.

>>HOLY.... That's freakin amazing man. I wonder how they'll perform past the 425 mark (which is where most people have asserted the exhaust manifold becomes a restriction). But seriously man...AWESOME numbers. I bet she's a rocket!! <<

Trying to prove the new BNR's I'm sure they made an effort to pull as much as they gave.....Now let's see them do better.
Looking at the dyno curve its obvious it hit full boost @ 4.5krpm and again boost went up @ 6.2-6.3krpm......my opinion....it did go higher then 17psi !!!!!
Congrats on GREAT #'s

JD

 

That's a line from a movie... I can't help if it descibes me too.

It was good to meet you also and I hope we can have even more get togethers this year than we did last year.

 

I was out cruising with some guys a while ago. One of them was a 440rwhp Cobra. I'm not sure of his exact mods, but you can bet he did the pulley.
We messed around the whole day, and yeah, he did kill me. But, not by nearly as much as you might think. At least not by as much as I thought he would.
I have 99 twins, and I was running 10psi(my 12psi wasn't locking in the way I wanted). I don't have an upgraded IC, so at that boost i'm at 255rwhp. If I choose to stay with the twins, and buy an IC, on 12 psi(i'm guessing i'll be at least 300rwhp), i'm positive that we will be even.
Of course, it's all bench racing, so it really doesn't matter. But, i'm just giving an honest perspective of what I found after a day of messing around with this guy. Our cars do alot with the power they have.

 

Those are great numbers, and actually very believable.

I've never dyno's my current setup, but based on several match races against friend's new cars with established performance baselines (E55 AMG, 911tt X50, Z06, Lingenfelter 383), i've extrapolated my HP to be right around 365, running sequentially w/ '99 twins... And I still get to enjoy the response of sequential turbos.

I'd love to run a benchmark race against a car w/ these BNR's...

 

Hahn, how did you do against those cars you mentioned?

 

I can beat them all, except for the 383 Lingenfelter, which was on 315 BFG drag radials, and run from a standing start. I think you'd need a single turbo and BFG's yourself to get there. The guy's got 10-sec timeslips.

Once caveat being, with a car like the E, with an automatic and traction control, each run was virtually the same as the last... to beat it, I had to get everything right, while my friend just stood on it.

 

Nice.
I figured you'd be right there with them.

 

'course the unfortunate tradeoff with sequential turbos is (and nice thing about the BNR non-sequentials), they don't always work right.

My sequentials (with the OEM turbos, and the '99s) have had the same irritating control problem for over 5 years, and nobody has been able to either diagnose of fix it... I actually run with an actuator hose OFF to mitigate the condition.

 

I deal with the while sequential reliability thing by just taking it to KD every couple of months (through the summer and Fall) for checkups before anything goes.
What problem are you having that the BNR's don't?

 

It's a solonoid/control issue related to the sequential system... not the type of turbos themselves. The BNR's would do the same thing if they were bolted on to run sequentially.

 

Oh. I wasn't aware that BNR's only an non sequencial.
Sorry.

 

Yeah you can get the BNR's either way but usually running higher boost with a seq system = trouble of some kind.
I went non-seq becuase I already had issues and also it cleaned up my engine bay a lot!

 

They arent only non seq. You can run them seq if you want to its just that most people dont.

John, I hope you didnt take my post as somehow diminishing your accomplishment. I still consider your car to be the king of stock twins!!! There is no doubt that your car has accomplished a lot.

Stephen

 

wow...the latter dyno sheet is great news...very well done...looking forward to the timeslips. please post them sometime k?

now..if i can get MY CAR out of the shop and dyno tuned I will be a happy man.


Jason

 

Hey John,
The boost held and stayed throughout the rpm. It does look like the boost was higher but I looked at the log after every pull and shows consistancy w/o any boost creep or spike. While making pulls, I can hear the motor started waking up at around 5.5krpm (tone changes). Not too sure if it was related to the porting or not. I think I can get more out of the car if the fuel pressure wasn't dropping at higher rpm. I had to compensate with higher injectors time to keep the a/f flat. I think if I remembered correctly that the fuel pressure stayed at around 58ish psi and dropped down to 50psi at 7krpm. not worth pushing the car any harder until the fuel pressure issue is fix. Also, on a side note. the car made 350rwhp@ 12.5psi of boost. The boost number is measured/posted from the AVCR and not the powerFC. I think the highest we ever got on the PFC reading is around 1.06kg/cm2 at the 17psi boost level.

 

any guesses as to what these would make @ 17psi on stock motor?

 

usually, a ported motor is worth about 30rwhp. If i have to guess, I would say around 390-400ish? This is assuming you have all the proper mods along with it. FMIC, fuel, full exhaust, intake etc.....

Also, I did Roy johnson's T78 turbo car. We overlay the dyno chart of 17psi on his vs. the BNR. The hp line follows identical to the T78. Just thought it was interesting to point that out.

 

Interesting. Now we have to get a dyno of a sequentially setup BNR3 car and see what kind of powerband it has.

Great #s JDTanksley, that was what I was hoping for. I spoke to Bryan today and he mentioned that you have p/s and a/c still installed and also still have some of the sequential flow restrictions. I would love to make your #s, hopefully I can get a bit higher (no p/s or a/c and the complete non-seq conversion done)

 

Hehe....looking at the torque its obvious...it picked up ~40rwt from the point it hit full boost to its peaking at ~6.2krpm. We both know what causes that :-)
Maybe it spiked to 17psi....
Let's get the fuel press issue taken care of and visit the local track:-)
JD



Hey John,
The boost held and stayed throughout the rpm. It does look like the boost was higher but I looked at the log after every pull and shows consistancy w/o any boost creep or spike. While making pulls, I can hear the motor started waking up at around 5.5krpm (tone changes). Not too sure if it was related to the porting or not. I think I can get more out of the car if the fuel pressure wasn't dropping at higher rpm. I had to compensate with higher injectors time to keep the a/f flat. I think if I remembered correctly that the fuel pressure stayed at around 58ish psi and dropped down to 50psi at 7krpm. not worth pushing the car any harder until the fuel pressure issue is fix. Also, on a side note. the car made 350rwhp@ 12.5psi of boost. The boost number is measured/posted from the AVCR and not the powerFC. I think the highest we ever got on the PFC reading is around 1.06kg/cm2 at the 17psi boost level.[/QUOTE]

 

that's incredable . Great job. Like the others have asked I'd love to know what kind of fuel setup you were running.

 

How are those #s corrected? They look uncorrected on a late January night.

 

I think most of the dyno sheets I saw showed a difference of about 8rwhp from corrected to uncorrected. Corrected I believe his would probably be right around 214rwhp. The only thing though is that the dyno correction factors really arent accurate for a forced induction car. They overly help out the numbers in high elevations and overly hurt in lower elevations. I prefer actual because that is what the car REALLY made.

We are pretty much at sealevel and it was probably mid/high 60's inside the shop.

Stephen

 

You forgot to mentioned full of fumes since they closed the doors on each pull. Talk about major headache for me at the end of the night inhauling too much CO and HC.

 

Not unexpectedly, there have been a couple people who have doubted the validity of the numbers I posted as being true corrected numbers. You do not have to believe me, but if you don’t, that’s your problem.

When we were done, I had one printout made straight from the dyno’s computer, using Dynojet’s software, with the correction factor set to SAE and smoothing set to 0. If you don’t believe the 422 HP is corrected and valid, there is nothing I can do to convince you otherwise, so I won’t bother trying.

I will say this, the circumstances were far from being ideal, and after I have a chance to make some minor changes, I plan to get back on the dyno and produce even better numbers. There were 3 things against me. First, the conversion to run non-sequential was a last minute change, actually done while sitting on the dyno, so needless to say, a proper conversion would produce better numbers. Secondly, I had trouble maintaining fuel pressure at the high end, so compromises were made to avoid damaging the engine. Just like with running the racing fuel, I would rather have played it safe as opposed to just trying to make the highest numbers possible. Finally, as Pluto pointed out, because we were doing this in the wee hours, right next to a hotel, we were having to make every run on the dyno with the doors closed and no outside air circulation. If you don’t think that made a difference in the air quality, which in turn impacted the engine performance, try it sometime for yourself.

With that said, I am more than happen with the results we produced. Not only does the car pull like it never is going to stop, there is little difference in the drivability of it now versus when it was completely stock. I should know. I drove it stock from the time I got it in early 1996 till I started on this project 2 years ago.

These results are largely due to the porting and tuning of Steve Kan, and the incredible difference in the BNR Stage 3’s compared to the stock turbos. If you have doubts about the latest Stage 3’s, you need to visit Bryan at BNR and take a long look at the differences in a side-by-side comparison of what goes into building these twins.

David