RX--7Seven

iTrader: (1)

Hey Matty - any update info on the stage 3's?

MR_Rick

iTrader: (7)

so what is the difference between FULL NON-sequencial and just NON- Sequencial? If there is even any.

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The full conversion removes the actuators and flap so there is a little more increased air flow (thus a little extra power).

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

sorry for bringing this back from the dead....but How do you convert it to full non sequential? I have my turbos out right now because of a blown gasket. I was thinking of doing the BNRs...but I was considering staying sequential. After reading this im not sure what to do. Also I was planning on getting my car tuned at SPI up near new york....they have been tuning the Apexi PFC for a number of years now....or KD rotary. Any suggestions?

Shinobi-X

http://www.nopistons.com/forums/inde...0&t=16665&st=0

Here is a perfect write-up with pics from FD3boost, on doing the non-seq. mod.

Boostn7

Hmmm...almost missed this thread !!!

>>The closest stock twins trap ever is 122 and that was with speed shifting and being hard on the car, I also think it was with race gas.

All of my numbers is on straight pump gas and I drive it with the exact same set up daily.<<

Steph, need to correct you in few things:

So far my car has yet to see race gas....and I have menaged to run 11.1 @ 122.9 mph on stock twins on ET streets w/ boost dropping off in 4th gear......try 98.5mph in the 1/8th !!!!!!!
If I slap on my Nittos or other reg 225/50-16 tires I will assure you I will trap at leats 124-125mph.
As you know I run a ported motor and similar fuel set up as you w/ PFC.
So I guess when you hit 18+psi of boost you're not being hard on it !!!!!!!!!

Hmmm......I may hit the dyno soon to see the gains of a ported motor.......402 rwh vs 412 rwh?????? you think I gained at least 10 rwh ??????? (2.5% gain)

Mahjik

iTrader: (1)

The full non-seq instructions are here:

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/non-sequential.html

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Boostn7,

So, what psi where you running and I am assuming it was Non-seq.?

I been wondering how much stock twins could handle when it came to power and quarter of mile..

artguy

old news..but the stockers are way out of their efficiency range past 15 psi. both the m2 and bnr set use larger more efficient wheels and bearing assemblies....they put out less heat too.

boostns car is a freak of nature...friggen amazing.


j

Marshall

Somebody please show me some hard data showing the charge air temps of the stockers at 15-16 psi and upgraded wheels at the same. To date, NO ONE has coughed up a compressor map for the HT-12 nor any before and after temps other than "the housing feels cooler". I agree that a bearing upgrade is probably a good idea for higher boost on the stockers, but I'm not buying that upgraded compressor wheels are really necessary, as JD and others have hinted at.

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

Don't get me wrong.. I have ridden with SPOAuto's car when he first put the BNR stage 3's.. and Its absolutely amazing.. Most power I felt in FD.. even better than some Single T78...

I have heard that stockers only handle upto 16 psi.. but its hard to believe JD's car pulling close to Stephens.. So, that's way I asked about his set up and boost setting..

artguy

i saw what running high boost (15psi) did to my stock set. I pulled them apart and found all the proof I needed. run high boost on your stockers if you want...a couple guys pulled it off...but the majority do not. perhaps its just luck of the draw.

compressor wheels have different efficiency ranges when looking at different sets...the bigger the wheels the more efficient they become at pushing air...the little stockers begin too cook themselves when pushed hard... I had three sets of them. All three were totally farked after running them at high boost on a daily basis.

j

Herblenny

iTrader: (13)

How about 99+ RZ twin turbos??

I been thinking about those for awhile.. some owners told me that they love those turbos.. but I don't think they are running 14+.. most running 12 psi..

Thebestmotoring

I had my BNR3 installed and converted to non-seq. by Dave at KDR a couple months ago and finally got my spark break up issue solved by HKS Twin Power.
Here is what Dave told me while he dyno my car and my buddy's with similar set up all the bolt-on. I have BNR3 and he has Pettit street port motor; anyways, Dave noticed my car is cool off much faster than my buddy's car in between each dyno. In fact, the time in between each dyno was avg. of 5 - 10 mins. Dave said I could have gotten more rwhp if he has more time to cool it off more.
Anyways, on a avg. cool day 60f. tempt. I could easily spin my SO-3 tires while rolling up around 5k rpm to redline on first keep spinning 2 nd and 3rd she starts to settle down. I could never do that when I have my stock with same boost level. Just my .02 cents.
Overall, I like it how it tolerate heat in high boost all day long.

Ken

duboisr

Garfinkle started his car today with the stage 3 setup. It smoked baddly. Brian was called and returned the call saying to reduce the oil restrictor size . Friends this is Sunday and Brian REturned the call cheerfully, Great service if you ask me , even on Sunday .I have been to his shop with Garfinkle and I beleive he is doing the best quality work possible. Plus good back up service .

Scrub

iTrader: (25)

So do you have to put some sort or restrictor pill in? I was thinking about running sequential instead of non I can't make up my mind. Chaces are I will not be auto Xing with this. Maybe in the future I will do a little road racing. So what does everyone reccommend?

duboisr

The resister is a smaller than stock hole in the oil banjo bolts. The new type low drag seal do not need as much volume as the old carbon seals. If a motor gives more oil pressure than another motor , the hole size may need adjusting. Garfinkle is going to do this by drilling small set screws to thread into the bango bolts, so changes can be madewith out welding and rewelding . NO the set screws will not be allowed to fall out ,befor you jump on that.

evot23

iTrader: (17)

BNR 3's are starting to look more and more appealing.

rotorbrain

they are. . . if you have all those stock setup upgrades then why in the world would you spend 3k on a single setup when you could spend 2k on bnr3's? duboisr is right about bryan's work. he lives and breathes this stuff. his head is full of it. he loves it and he loves to treat people right. he has helped me out many times and im thankful for that. if the performance of the stage 3's doesnt do it for you, then let his workmanship count. . . i still must say that the stage 3s ARE the answer for cheaper, reliable performance on your turbo upgrade.

paul

kwikrx7

I am starting to get some ignition breakup now that I'm running 15 psi all the time. If nobody buys my car soon then I'll probably get the HKS or Ignition Solutions Plasma box

I don't know of anyone running the BNR 3s sequentially - if you look at SPOautos dyno sheet, there really is no need. You'd end up losing a lot of midrange power if you ran them sequentially. When comparing artguys and my dyno sheets with SPOautos, we have more power below 3500 rpms but then the non-seq BNRs take off and don't look back all the way to redline.

I'm impressed with my BNR 2s since Bryan put alot of work into these turbos since I wanted quick spooling. He said he'd do his best to make these turbos have minimal cut and drag or friction even though they are carbon seal. When idling, Dave at KDR said they spin faster than the stockers and they do spool faster even with the bigger wheels.

Mr rx-7 tt

iTrader: (5)

Try a set of new race plugs..

Boostn7

I now see 18psi and drops down to ~17psi in 4th gear. In lower gears boost is a bit less and YES NON-SEQ.

>>old news..but the stockers are way out of their efficiency range past 15 psi. both the m2 and bnr set use larger more efficient wheels and bearing assemblies....they put out less heat too.
boostns car is a freak of nature...friggen amazing. <<

Artguy: I may have a freak of nature *but* you saying 15 psi is the limit is simply NOT true.
Anytime you increase boost and you make more power on a dyno it clearly tells that you're not maxed yet. When there is no gains or the gains are very small
then we've reached the limit of something.

The only downside of the stock twins is the design of the exhaust housings/manifold. The fact that both turbos dump exhaust against each other. The reason why they generate more heat at higher boost......TIP !!!! or turbine inlet pressure increases.
The stock compressor wheels are clearly effiecient for higher boost......why????? air temps did not climb on the dyno!!!!!
Now as far as the BNR's......with upgraded compressor wheels there's a clear advantage of cfm output from the units *BUT* the exhaust retriction is still there !!!! even if the exhaust wheels are upgraded.....which I don't think he does.
So if you ask me.....the limit as far as boost is about the same for both...........exhaust pulses have to flow thru exactly the same path ....Why would bigger compressor wheels change that????

I plan on going single turbo soon.....but not until the twins run 10.999......I just love the mid range punch they offer....I leave patches of rubber in 3rd gear !!!

Maybe a dyno session will clear things up....

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Here are some of my thought on the BNR Stage IIIs versus my stock twins.

The difference is night and day, to put it bluntly.

Yes, I dynoed at 368 peak rwhp, but I wasn't making as much power down low. Also, that was (in my opinion) maxxing out the turbos. They were starting to blow oil smoke out the tailpipe and put pushed *quarts* of oil through my IC piping, through my entire M2 large core, and into my throttle body and motor. By running 15 psi I had toasted them--they lasted about 90k miles.

The BNR 3s are phenomenal. Boost is quick to come on, even in sequential. As soon as I see above 1.0 kg/cm^2 (14.2 psi) on the power fc, I'm breaking the tires loose (265 width s03s) in first, second, and sometimes third gear. No spiking, no creep. From 3k to 4500 rpms it's a different car, gobs more power.

It's like a single in it's behavior, and Steve Kan said that my car felt stronger than his drag car (10.0 at 136 IIRC) does on pump gas. Additionally, many of the FD owners who have ridden in my R1 think it's sequential, and don't believe that I'm running parallel until I pop the hood and show them all the room under my UIM .

The car is in NJ with my dad while I'm over here in Iraq. On June 26th he's getting it dynoed at KDR in PA. While I don't think it'll make much over 400 peak to the wheels, I do believe the area under the curve (the integral, if you will ) from 3k to 8k rpms will be vastly superior to the stockers.

As far as JD's amazing car, to quite sure what to say. Sounds like a well sorted car with some very strong unblemished turbos.

For anyone looking for a streetable setup at a great price, the BNRs are the way to go.

vosko

iTrader: (4)

i have seen boostn7's car and known him for a while now. his car is not ordinary because he is not ordinary!

he is not some random person that accidentally ran 11.1

he has years of rotary experience. i have seen it first hand time and time again! if anyone goes to the local tristate drag strips you will have seen him once or twice atleast. he has worked very hard and is producing #'s on the dragstrip which is very hard to do. hell his FD is running faster than my single turbo FD!!!!! he has worked through the problems that came up and made solutions for everything. he is out to prove a point and is doing so. unfortunately i don't have his 11.1 run on video but i do have his 11.5 run from november

if you think his 10 second street car is a monster wait till you see when the real race car is done. OMG.... anyway it is not fair to call his car a freak of nature. i think it would be better to congratulate him for raising the bar and for showing other people what can be done. he doesn't act like some people who won't tell you what they did to their car. he is explaining 100% what he did and still nobody believes him. i honestly think its funny, believe what you guys want but the timeslips don't lie

Boostn7

DAMN VOSKO !!!
Thanks for the support

I'm clearly not knocking the BNR's stage 3........with their upgraded compressor wheels they clearly have the advantage in cfm/output.
At the same boost levels under same conditions the BNR's should clearly lead.
But to say stock twins are only good to 15psi is bull.....
I have simply taken the stockers to their limits(among few others) which many find hard to believe.
Tuning and that Greddy 3 row is also a big help in the power making.............among few other little things .

If i didn't have my single waiting on the shelf ....the BNR's would have been my top choice.