rboorgu

I can't believe I missed all this. Bryan, you da man!!! You too stephen

Raj

FEARED7

Hey Guys.

The stock intercooler will actually work, but it will be hard to turn the boost up past 13 or 14 psi. In hot weather you don't need to run the stock intercooler b/c it is a turd with pipes attatched to it. If your turbos need goin through go ahead and do it but just keep the boost down to a minimum.

Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

artguy

at twelve pounds of boost thru my m2 turbos the car drove...you could literally feel it strangling the system...i put in the m2 large and zoooom it could breathe...and the turbos would sing. it was NIGHT and DAY....truly.

these turbos are meant for higher boost and more flow. if you are gonna run them on a stock ic you might as well have him rebuild your stock turbos to stock specs....and dont waste your time on that little greddy or pfs either...get the bigguns like the m2 large. you will thank us later.

j

smerkinseven

ok ok i'm a little confused now... i'm running a m2 stage 3 ecu, m2 dp, racing beat cb, blitz intake. what else do i need just to get by for now. i have enough for the turbos... but i don't have enough for the ic, injectors, fuel pump, etc... can i drive my car safely with just the turbo upgrades??? for now???

t-von

iTrader: (8)

I would doubt it because of the increased flow of these upgrades (especially with those mods). Correct me if I'm wrong but, doesn't the M2 stage 3 ecu run boost at 12 lbs? If so, you would probably be running lean. 12 lbs on these should flow alot more than 12 lbs on stockers. Now if you had a stock setup you would be ok. No?

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

Your next step should prolly be an upgraded IC. I found my M2 large used for 1200 bones. If your turbos are shot, then get the BNRs by all means. You'd most likely have to keep the boost close to stock though, until you upgrade your fuel and engine management.

Dragonz818

I have a question. Reading this thread is getting me all tingly to get these babys . I have most of the stuff needed to run these turbos execpt for the fuel portion.

Is i going to be hard to tune all that extra fuel :larger pump, injectors etc.. with the stock twins. Then putting on the new turbos and retuning it. I would want to get that ot of the way so I can just slap on the new turbos.

Congrats on the turbos and hopefully everything will work out as planned. If it all does you sold me..........

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

What kind of engine management do you have? That is the big question. If you have a Power FC, then you're good to go. And tuning isn't a problem if you have a Steve Kan around....I'm sure he'd be willing to tune you .

Dragonz818

I do have a PFC and commander. Where is Steve Kan from?

Jason

iTrader: (5)

You next step is a new ECU. Power FC etc..
Your current ECU wont handle the upgraded turbos.
Your other option is the keep the ECU you have and get the other bolt ons.

Jason

R8cemy7

Sign me up!!!!!!!!!!! I want them.

was going to order a T-78 single but after reading the post for several days I would rather have the faster spool up and the same power as the t-78. Also at more than a grand cheaper I am there. One question I have the pettit ecu tuned at 15psi on seq. and the cool charge III ic, would these be sufficient to run these "Secret Weapons"


We are talking can drop the car off as long as needed.
Today!!!!!! and its christmas

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Hey Bryan, I was just curious if it was possible to ungrade the twins of a 20b in this same mannor? Or would it be too much trouble?. The reason I'm asking is because it would allow a conversion to look more stock. Also you would achieve similar hp levels as a big single but, without the added cost of a custom exhaust manifold ect. This could really help someone pass the visual inspecton at the gas station ( which in my town only last about 2 secs). Just curious!


Oh one more thing, they don't smog down here either!

kwikrx7

You're not going to see anything different on these turbos than the stock turbos - everything is the same except the internals and the stock turbos are basically hidden from sight anyways. I think the with the 20b twins, the secondary is larger than the primary - I know Bryan was talking about putting even a larger ugrade in the secondary of the 20b turbos to see what happens.

Most people wouldn't run a medium or large single turbo without fuel system upgrades so I would do these things first. A larger IC is a must - a good smic seems to work best with the twins (M2, CWC, even a Pettit III would be large enough) PFS, Greddy, and Blitz are all too small to run 400 rwhp. As earlier stated, if your turbos are shot then get the upgrades but stay at 9-10 psi. But I'd start upgrading your IC and fuel system first.

FEARED7

Hey Tvon.
I can upgrade your set of 20B turbos. Email me when you want to do it.

Bryan
www.bnrsupercars.com

capt. bill1

"Hey Guys.

The stock intercooler will actually work, but it will be hard to turn the boost up past 13 or 14 psi. In hot weather you don't need to run the stock intercooler b/c it is a turd with pipes attatched to it. If your turbos need goin through go ahead and do it but just keep the boost down to a minimum."

I must be missing something here, in one sentence you say: "The stock intercooler will actually work"

Then you say: "In hot weather you don't need to run the stock intercooler b/c it is a turd with pipes attatched to it."

Sorry, but the above statements makes no sense to me.
The stock IC will work but in hot weather you don't need it!?
Are you trying to say the stock IC is only usable in cold weather? Other wise you will need to go to a bigger IC?

As far as the M2 stage three ECU goes, I have one and it was still running rich at 16lb of boost with my M2 high flow twins. But I have gone to a PFC and I would recommend a programmable computer to anyone going for 400+ HP, whether you are using twins or a single. Anything else is just a waste of time and money IMHO.

MontegoTT

Well fellas, I definately appreciate all of the information coming out of this thread. I never really expected this much enthusiasm, and you have definately made my decision when it comes time to buy much more simple.

Come spring, I will definately have a set of "Secret Weapon" twins on my FD. As per the intercooler requirements, I currently have the Greddy "large core" FMIC for the stock twins. I can sell it for something else if you honestly feel I should do so - but will this IC be able to handle 15-20 lbs from these twins?

If not, what are my best options. In all honesty I know VERY little about the M2 IC, but bought GReddy because I was so happy with the side-mount I had on my old MR2.

rotorbrain

i think youre the only person that took it that way capt. bill. haha. hes just saying that the stock ic could be used temporarily if the boost is kept down and you dont get it too hot. it should definately be upgraded, but if it must stay for a bit then you need to keep the boost and temps. down.

paul

FEARED7

Hey Captain.
Let me also explain how an upgraded turbocharger works. When you upgrade a compressor wheel the larger wheel doesn't heat the compressed air up as much as the stock compressor wheel(s) therefore it helps reduce intake air charges before they hit the intercooler. Even though the intercooler isn't sufficient for an abundant amount of power, you can still increase the efficiency of the intercooler just by upgrading your turbocharger(s). When the temps heat up outside and the compressed air becomes less dense, chances of detonation will occur. When it is cool outside or you get a consistant amount of cool air through the factory intercooler, it will perform because air is forced through the intercooler whether it likes it or not. There are buick GN guys making over 500 hp at the wheels and 700+ ft./lbs of torque on their stock intercooler that flows right at 300CFM. Go figure! lol

artguy

i guess the question is..do you want to try to push your boost thru the tiny blowhole that the stock ic is?

sure you gain a temp drop with more efficient wheel sizes....however, you are also flowing huge amounts of air compared to the stock twins...and the pressure drop on the stock ic actually causes more unneccessary heat because you have to boost 17lbs on the turbos to see 15 actual lbs of boost...right?

on a good ic 17lbs will be right around 17lbs. no flow wasted and choked by that restriction that the stock unit is.

you are right bryan...the stock ic will work....just barely and you wont be getting your moneys worth.

Ive tried it myself on my own car. the stock unit choked the fukk out of my system...it was like trying to breathe with a sock in your mouth...you could do it by breathing thru your nose...but try running around the block like that...take out the sock and try it again. A great IC is a MUST have.

do it as a test...dyno a car on your secret weap turbos using the stock IC....then dyno the same car on the m2 large or similar.....i dont even think you will get one run out of 17lbs on a stock unit before you have to shut the car down and get the big fans on it.

dyno sheets...i feel like its extended xmas eve...lets see em soon guys...Im feeling antsy!


j

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

patience, Grasshoppa

I'll have dyno sheets hopefully by the end of the first week in Jan. My motor is apart right now, but as soon as I get back to TX on the 29th, Kan is porting my exhaust and we're putting the motor back together with stock apex seals. A/c and airpump are going the way of the dodo bird, and the Top Secrets and midpipe are goin on, along with a rebuilt alternator. After some serious Steveo Special Tuning on the street with datalogit and wideband, I'll hit the dynojet at RP and post that shiznit up

Merry Christmas everyone--

capt. bill1

"Let me also explain how an upgraded turbocharger works. When you upgrade a compressor wheel the larger wheel doesn't heat the compressed air up as much as the stock compressor wheel(s) therefore it helps reduce intake air charges before they hit the intercooler. Even though the intercooler isn't sufficient for an abundant amount of power, you can still increase the efficiency of the intercooler just by upgrading your turbocharger(s). When the temps heat up outside and the compressed air becomes less dense, chances of detonation will occur. When it is cool outside or you get a consistant amount of cool air through the factory intercooler, it will perform because air is forced through the intercooler whether it likes it or not."

Thanks for the clarification. That's what I thought you were trying to say.

SilvioRX7

I'm thinking about buying a set but I'm still skeptical about the hp produced.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

It's coming. They used a dynomite dyno, which yields lower #s than the accpeted standard in the U.S., the dynojet. Not too many dynos are open on Christmas day, so I think they'll prolly hit the dynojet very soon

Rich

mp5

iTrader: (3)

Running sequentially would eliminate a lot of the "rats nest" am I correct? thx.

GoodfellaFD3S

iTrader: (213)

sequential is the stock setup with all the vacuum hoses, solenoids, check valves, etc.

Running them in parallel (non-seq) will eliminate the majority of the b.s., to include the prespool actuator and flapper valve, which leads to better exhaust flow.

Rich