automatic FD guys
11-04-09 | 12:18 PM
#51
11-04-09 | 09:05 PM
#52
well that's not really a fair comparison. a stock auto tranny doesn't have the rear gears or high rpm stall that would be comparable to a manual. I'm not sure I can think of one factory stock vehicle that does.
I understand the argument but I don't really think it's a fair comparison. Does anyone run a 5-speed at the drag with stock clutch?
The auto's potential lies in it its consistency with shifts and constant boost during shifts. Currently, the FD manual trans potential lies in it's ability to hold higher hp (which is what we're trying to figure out on this thread - where does the auto tranny detonate due to hp) and an increase in "driver involvement."
That being all said, I think the auto tranny on these cars has had almost no serious testing on what it can and can't do. The supra guys constantly lay down 600s on their Getrag auto transmissions. I'm not saying Mazda has such an auto transmission in the FD; however, I don't think it's as fragile (or non-potentate) as auto owners have been led to believe. Course we don't actually know b/c the auto owners are told to "swap it for a 5-speed."
Think of this thread as a research thread and not a "auto vs. manual" debate.
I understand the argument but I don't really think it's a fair comparison. Does anyone run a 5-speed at the drag with stock clutch?
The auto's potential lies in it its consistency with shifts and constant boost during shifts. Currently, the FD manual trans potential lies in it's ability to hold higher hp (which is what we're trying to figure out on this thread - where does the auto tranny detonate due to hp) and an increase in "driver involvement."
That being all said, I think the auto tranny on these cars has had almost no serious testing on what it can and can't do. The supra guys constantly lay down 600s on their Getrag auto transmissions. I'm not saying Mazda has such an auto transmission in the FD; however, I don't think it's as fragile (or non-potentate) as auto owners have been led to believe. Course we don't actually know b/c the auto owners are told to "swap it for a 5-speed."
Think of this thread as a research thread and not a "auto vs. manual" debate.
11-05-09 | 07:59 AM
#53
well that's not really a fair comparison. a stock auto tranny doesn't have the rear gears or high rpm stall that would be comparable to a manual. I'm not sure I can think of one factory stock vehicle that does.
I understand the argument but I don't really think it's a fair comparison. Does anyone run a 5-speed at the drag with stock clutch?
The auto's potential lies in it its consistency with shifts and constant boost during shifts. Currently, the FD manual trans potential lies in it's ability to hold higher hp (which is what we're trying to figure out on this thread - where does the auto tranny detonate due to hp) and an increase in "driver involvement."
That being all said, I think the auto tranny on these cars has had almost no serious testing on what it can and can't do. The supra guys constantly lay down 600s on their Getrag auto transmissions. I'm not saying Mazda has such an auto transmission in the FD; however, I don't think it's as fragile (or non-potentate) as auto owners have been led to believe. Course we don't actually know b/c the auto owners are told to "swap it for a 5-speed." Think of this thread as a research thread and not a "auto vs. manual" debate.
I understand the argument but I don't really think it's a fair comparison. Does anyone run a 5-speed at the drag with stock clutch?
The auto's potential lies in it its consistency with shifts and constant boost during shifts. Currently, the FD manual trans potential lies in it's ability to hold higher hp (which is what we're trying to figure out on this thread - where does the auto tranny detonate due to hp) and an increase in "driver involvement."
That being all said, I think the auto tranny on these cars has had almost no serious testing on what it can and can't do. The supra guys constantly lay down 600s on their Getrag auto transmissions. I'm not saying Mazda has such an auto transmission in the FD; however, I don't think it's as fragile (or non-potentate) as auto owners have been led to believe. Course we don't actually know b/c the auto owners are told to "swap it for a 5-speed."
Think of this thread as a research thread and not a "auto vs. manual" debate.I understand what you are saying, but Ive owned several auto fds and they just leave a lot to be desired compared to the 5-speed. Look at the post I quoted a couple posts back, it is not useless to swap to a 5speed as you get bette performance down low period. I have seen guys take stock cluthced fds down into the high 7s/low 8s in the 1/8th mile which equates to mid to high 12s in the 1/4. I hope you guys find out the trans can handle a lot of power, I just havent driven one yet with the auto that got me excited.
11-06-09 | 08:07 PM
#55
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 7,093
Likes: 121
From: Twin Cities, MN
I think its time for a scatter shield...
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/whoever-said-getting-rid-your-twins-good-hasnt-seen-setup-872321/
https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/whoever-said-getting-rid-your-twins-good-hasnt-seen-setup-872321/
12-23-09 | 04:00 PM
#56
donrotor
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
From: santo domingo
jatco
This is a link to mods I've done on my datsun jatco 3n71b. I also have a zip file with the rebuild info for nissan jatco's from keas. You might be able to apply it to the mazda trans. PM me with an email address to send it to if you want/need it.
http://www.z31performance.com/forum/....php?f=3&t=889
http://www.z31performance.com/forum/....php?f=3&t=889
12-23-09 | 04:39 PM
#57
thought i'd add these to the thread for others:
My Fluidyne auto transmission cooler (radiator is locally build alum. radiator) part number FHP-10029 "9 Passage Transmission Oil Cooler" 18x8.75x1 ~ $25.00
The setup is pretty simple... from the transmission it runs into the Fluidyne, from the Fluidyne it runs into the OEM Cooler, then back to the transmission. Transmission temp gauge is next in line for gauges.
This is actually the first time I installed it on the vehicle but shortly after this install one of the the installation zip-ties snapped. I removed the "install zips" and re-zip tied it with traditional zips. When doing this be sure to anchor the zips around an actual piece of metal and not a fin as the zip will pull through the thin fin material. Should be obvious but I thought I'd put it out there.
My Fluidyne auto transmission cooler (radiator is locally build alum. radiator) part number FHP-10029 "9 Passage Transmission Oil Cooler" 18x8.75x1 ~ $25.00
The setup is pretty simple... from the transmission it runs into the Fluidyne, from the Fluidyne it runs into the OEM Cooler, then back to the transmission. Transmission temp gauge is next in line for gauges.
This is actually the first time I installed it on the vehicle but shortly after this install one of the the installation zip-ties snapped. I removed the "install zips" and re-zip tied it with traditional zips. When doing this be sure to anchor the zips around an actual piece of metal and not a fin as the zip will pull through the thin fin material. Should be obvious but I thought I'd put it out there.
12-25-09 | 05:44 AM
#62
12-25-09 | 05:47 AM
#63
you could tell them that some of the fastest cars in the world are automatics or semi-automatics but I'm sure they wouldn't understand.
12-25-09 | 07:10 AM
#64
Constant threat
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,968
Likes: 38
From: near Wichita, Kansas
lol...no, you can tell them that ALL of the fastest cars in the world are now automatics. CAR&DRIVER also recently did an article on this, comparing the same make and model using one with an auto and one with a manual at Willow Springs (I believe it was) Raceway. The auto cars beat the manuals by an appreciable margin every time, simply because no human can shift as fast as the modern auto trannies do.
But yeah, their are still the die-hards out that there INSIST you must SHIFT.
Hey! That rhymes!
12-31-09 | 01:13 AM
#65
if you had upgraded twins at 360 whp the tranny would last a long time i mean the abuse this thing is taking is unreal. My twin to4e setup is almost done i wanna find out if it can hold 500 whp. drag radials and scattershield have been installed aswell. If you blew up your auto tranny because of increased horsepower most likely its because lack of maintenance-change filter and fluid every 20k miles (more often if you drive like i do) i dont care what anyone says or...... you neutral bomb it........... yea....dont do that, period. and if your car is stock pffffftttt dont even worry about it, that is baby hp.
12-31-09 | 01:36 AM
#66
01-04-10 | 03:47 AM
#68
Im not sure who made it i had got it from the shop that does my work (but i will ask). and the stalls and everything in the tranny is still stock, im putting synthetic fluid to atleast try and save the tranny for the high horsepower it is about to witness.
03-22-10 | 09:46 AM
#72
Good to know that the auto can hold that hp, let us know how many miles/runs you get on it. (might want to update that Sig now )
I am taking my 90K auto in for flushing and synthetic swap. Don't know if the transmission has ever been flushed before, I'm crossing my fingers that it won't hurt anything. Thoughts?
)I am taking my 90K auto in for flushing and synthetic swap. Don't know if the transmission has ever been flushed before, I'm crossing my fingers that it won't hurt anything. Thoughts?
03-22-10 | 06:56 PM
#73
Good to know that the auto can hold that hp, let us know how many miles/runs you get on it. (might want to update that Sig now )
I am taking my 90K auto in for flushing and synthetic swap. Don't know if the transmission has ever been flushed before, I'm crossing my fingers that it won't hurt anything. Thoughts?
)I am taking my 90K auto in for flushing and synthetic swap. Don't know if the transmission has ever been flushed before, I'm crossing my fingers that it won't hurt anything. Thoughts?
lol. (by the way i never got around to put that synthetic tranny fluid........ its still using the stock fluid. bahaha.)
03-23-10 | 06:04 AM
#74
I think at 9K you might find the TC is going to make a mess. From what I've read it is what is keeping the rev limit down. But, if you are willing to risk it, I'd like to know what happens 
Here's a post i found with some more first hand experience with the transmission. Credit to tsmysak1:
Here's a post i found with some more first hand experience with the transmission. Credit to tsmysak1:
94 Touring - Auto
Koyo, downpipe, everything else stock
Been off the forum for a while - largely because the 7 has been on stilts in the garage.
I am posting for the record. Perhaps this will help some others someday.
Built the engine back to stock because I wanted the auto trans to live a long life. Rumor is that a stock one is good for 350 HP. The one that came with the car lasterd about one year. I have no idea how many miles on it. Possibly over 100k. When it failed, it started to slip one morning. Limped it home and later swapped it out of a 30,000 mile stock tranny.
It felt and ran good, but also died shortly thereafter. Maybe 5000 miles at most. I am a moderate driver at best. I do not trash the car because I do not like laying under it. The second tranny made a horrible noise and did not go into gear, so I pulled it.
Bought a third tranny off the forum from a local. Supposedly is was a $4000 rebuild from Level 10 transmission. Supposedly new with a brand new stall convertor. I bit... got it cheap becasue the guy was doing a manual swap.
Put it in, the convertor was too thick and it damaged the front seal in the tranny. Leaked all over everywhere. I pulled it out, change the seal and smoothed up the welding flash on the convertor that cut the seal.
Tranny lasted about 200 miles. Towed it home.
I took all three trannys to A&A Transmission in Indy. These guys have a good rep with racing transmissions and one person there is a Jatco guru. Here is what I have learned.
The trannys are notorious for the pins walking out of the planetary gears. They have a high pressure issue at highway speeds (where I did most of my driving), and the material used in the stock convertors has a tendency to dissentigrate and wind up in the cooler or pan filter. In all three trannys, the pins were loose, includinig the low mile one. All three have convertor failure. It is possible that the previous failures left debris in the coolers, which exacerbated the failures of the following two. I blew the cooling system out each time, but that was not sufficient. You have to pull all coolers and hi-temp pressue clean (FYI).
All the trannys showed signs of slipping on the clutches and steels. The steels were burnt on the third gear.
I got a stall from a professional race builder in California. He replaced the suspect materials in the covertor clutch with high end materials and rebuilt it. Cost was around $480, which I think it was money well spent. Anyone looking at building up an auto probably should consider this as mandatory.
The planetary can be welded to hold the pins. I suggest doing this also to prevent higher mileage failures on your new expensive rebuild.
There are aftermarket shift kits that improve the high pressure issue with this tranny. This is not a concern for race cars (that are driven little), but is for cars that are going to be driven alot on the highway. The high pressure can damge the internals..I am noting this here, not as a expert but something that you should check out if you ever repair or rebuild one.
Also, stay away from Level 10. The internet has a ton of bad press on them and this tranny I had was built very poorly. The reliability improvements were not done and it looks like they reused too many old stock parts. Supposedly this was their high end rebuild. The pins in the planetary gears were about ready to walk out. Again, it lasted less than 200 miles....
One more thing. Make sure you buy a very high quality (OEM) filter. The aftermarket ones we found to have leaks around the seam. When we pressure tested, the filter sucked air... very bad...Also, all three trannys had the o-ring cut on the filter from improper installation. This is something that is a big concern. Whoever installs your filter needs to pay close attention not to damage the ring.
Cost was about $2350 for everything, tax included. I think the Mazda replacement was $2500, but no stall and standard components....I would not suggest going that route in light of the improments that need to happen.
Koyo, downpipe, everything else stock
Been off the forum for a while - largely because the 7 has been on stilts in the garage.
I am posting for the record. Perhaps this will help some others someday.
Built the engine back to stock because I wanted the auto trans to live a long life. Rumor is that a stock one is good for 350 HP. The one that came with the car lasterd about one year. I have no idea how many miles on it. Possibly over 100k. When it failed, it started to slip one morning. Limped it home and later swapped it out of a 30,000 mile stock tranny.
It felt and ran good, but also died shortly thereafter. Maybe 5000 miles at most. I am a moderate driver at best. I do not trash the car because I do not like laying under it. The second tranny made a horrible noise and did not go into gear, so I pulled it.
Bought a third tranny off the forum from a local. Supposedly is was a $4000 rebuild from Level 10 transmission. Supposedly new with a brand new stall convertor. I bit... got it cheap becasue the guy was doing a manual swap.
Put it in, the convertor was too thick and it damaged the front seal in the tranny. Leaked all over everywhere. I pulled it out, change the seal and smoothed up the welding flash on the convertor that cut the seal.
Tranny lasted about 200 miles. Towed it home.
I took all three trannys to A&A Transmission in Indy. These guys have a good rep with racing transmissions and one person there is a Jatco guru. Here is what I have learned.
The trannys are notorious for the pins walking out of the planetary gears. They have a high pressure issue at highway speeds (where I did most of my driving), and the material used in the stock convertors has a tendency to dissentigrate and wind up in the cooler or pan filter. In all three trannys, the pins were loose, includinig the low mile one. All three have convertor failure. It is possible that the previous failures left debris in the coolers, which exacerbated the failures of the following two. I blew the cooling system out each time, but that was not sufficient. You have to pull all coolers and hi-temp pressue clean (FYI).
All the trannys showed signs of slipping on the clutches and steels. The steels were burnt on the third gear.
I got a stall from a professional race builder in California. He replaced the suspect materials in the covertor clutch with high end materials and rebuilt it. Cost was around $480, which I think it was money well spent. Anyone looking at building up an auto probably should consider this as mandatory.
The planetary can be welded to hold the pins. I suggest doing this also to prevent higher mileage failures on your new expensive rebuild.
There are aftermarket shift kits that improve the high pressure issue with this tranny. This is not a concern for race cars (that are driven little), but is for cars that are going to be driven alot on the highway. The high pressure can damge the internals..I am noting this here, not as a expert but something that you should check out if you ever repair or rebuild one.
Also, stay away from Level 10. The internet has a ton of bad press on them and this tranny I had was built very poorly. The reliability improvements were not done and it looks like they reused too many old stock parts. Supposedly this was their high end rebuild. The pins in the planetary gears were about ready to walk out. Again, it lasted less than 200 miles....
One more thing. Make sure you buy a very high quality (OEM) filter. The aftermarket ones we found to have leaks around the seam. When we pressure tested, the filter sucked air... very bad...Also, all three trannys had the o-ring cut on the filter from improper installation. This is something that is a big concern. Whoever installs your filter needs to pay close attention not to damage the ring.
Cost was about $2350 for everything, tax included. I think the Mazda replacement was $2500, but no stall and standard components....I would not suggest going that route in light of the improments that need to happen.
03-24-10 | 03:36 AM
#75
^^ when did he post this? My gut says this is one of those auto postings before the Banzai Racing harness for the automatic. I'm pretty sure it's a posting that's been around a while.
Not saying he's incorrect, just saying that some very important things have changed. Namely, the transmission now being able to "talk" with its computer box.
Not saying he's incorrect, just saying that some very important things have changed. Namely, the transmission now being able to "talk" with its computer box.