Anyone else thinking about getting a new Groundzero LIM??
11-14-04, 04:01 PM
#1
Anyone else thinking about getting a new Groundzero LIM??
Seems like Groundzero has been putting out alot of new products for the FD lately. Anyways, I picked up the latest Rxtuner magazine, and noticed that they are making a new manifold for the FD. I wanted to see how much it was and stuff, so i gave him a call. (and talk to him about some tuning issues I'm having.) From what Ralph said, on the new manifold that the front and rear rotor would flow the same amount of air. He said that the stock one has about a 20% difference between the front and rear. Not to mention you can run and anouther set of injectors. I tried looking online for some pictures of it, but could'nt find any. I guess this week they will be doing a back to back dyno sessions with a single turbo car, to see how much power is picked up. I'm realy looking forward to this. Hopefully, someone here has some pics of the new LIM. CJ
Anyone else see this, and think about getting one?
Anyone else see this, and think about getting one?
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11-14-04, 05:33 PM
#8
I don't remember exactly what he said, but I think he said around $500 retail. A little spendy for the poor man (like me.) but still cheaper than just getting the stock one extrude honed...and a better fix than the extrude honed IMOP. CJ
11-14-04, 05:35 PM
#9
Weird Cat Man
-if- there is really a flow difference from front to rear, this sounds like a good mod.
I want to see the dyno tests though!
If they want to send me a demo manifold, I'll do my car
I want to see the dyno tests though!
If they want to send me a demo manifold, I'll do my car
11-14-04, 05:52 PM
#10
Eye In The Sky
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If that 20% difference in flow with stock porting or modified porting? If stock porting and the new LIM increases the weaker one by that 20%, then my engine should make about 38 more HP at 15PSI boost. That is worth $500 to me.
Cheaper than going small single turbo.
I want to see dyno testting of this product.
Cheaper than going small single turbo.
I want to see dyno testting of this product.
11-14-04, 07:28 PM
#15
Originally Posted by wReX
Why wouldn't it? 
Most people going for the HUGE power are running a single turbo so there is no need to provide clearance (and resulting flow reduction in the runners) for the twins.
That is what I was thinking....
11-14-04, 07:32 PM
#16
This doesnt make sense. If this new LIM flows 20% more than a stock one then you are going to need matching intake ports to take advantage of that. I never knew the stock LIM was a bottle neck considering they are equal length runners and as far as I know the same diameter.
Interested to see dyno results.
Jason
Interested to see dyno results.
Jason
11-14-04, 07:43 PM
#18
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Extrude honed Manifolds should be suffice.
I have seen friends mess with "aftermarket" manifolds on other cars with abject results.
Many manifold upgrades are best used for an upgraded forced induction or much increased boost.
Increasing the diameter of the runners could potentially hurt performance via reduced intake velocities which are just as important as CFM's.
When you blow out the candles on a birthday cake, do you have the lungs to power enough blowing with your mouth wide open?
Or do you need to reduce the aperture of your mouth by making an "O" with a small aperture to increase flow velocities.
Think about that folks.
I have seen friends mess with "aftermarket" manifolds on other cars with abject results.
Many manifold upgrades are best used for an upgraded forced induction or much increased boost.
Increasing the diameter of the runners could potentially hurt performance via reduced intake velocities which are just as important as CFM's.
When you blow out the candles on a birthday cake, do you have the lungs to power enough blowing with your mouth wide open?
Or do you need to reduce the aperture of your mouth by making an "O" with a small aperture to increase flow velocities.
Think about that folks.
11-14-04, 07:52 PM
#19
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velocity/tumble etc have less impact on forced induction than a n/a application. the air fuel mix is being forced in the chamber so the largest smoothest opening that will maintain boost and efficency will make power.
11-14-04, 08:10 PM
#21
RX-7 Bad Ass
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Probably be pretty easy to tell if there's a volume difference with the stock LIM. Take a spare LIM, seal up the bottom ports, fill it with water, and pour the water from each rotor's runners into separate containers.
I wonder if the stock manifold could be modified somehow to overcome the air flow discrepancy between the front and rear rotors.
Makes me wish I had the FD parts reservoir equivalent to all the FC parts I used to have laying about. I'd be out in the garage messing with a LIM right now.
Dale
I wonder if the stock manifold could be modified somehow to overcome the air flow discrepancy between the front and rear rotors.
Makes me wish I had the FD parts reservoir equivalent to all the FC parts I used to have laying about. I'd be out in the garage messing with a LIM right now
.Dale
11-14-04, 08:10 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by mad_7tist
velocity/tumble etc have less impact on forced induction than a n/a application. the air fuel mix is being forced in the chamber so the largest smoothest opening that will maintain boost and efficency will make power.
That is true...... to a point.
It really depends on the most ideal marriage of the forced induction and the manifolds.
If u have a forced induction that runs outta steam at the high boosts then it may thwart any plans for increased HP.
11-14-04, 08:12 PM
#23
The issue (as I understand it) is that the runners for the front and rear rotors are not balanced. The secondary runner for the rear rotor is more restrictive than the secondary runner for the front rotor. It is hard to account for this in tuning, and it probably limits somewhat your power production potential.
I know that a lot of people blow their rear rotors, but both times I have cracked apex seals on my engine, it was the front rotor. More air, same fuel = leaner than the rear. I wonder if the LIM imbalance is part of the reason I kill front rotors.
I think Jeff might be right that the GZ LIM might not work with stock turbos. The rear secondary runner on the stock LIM is pinched down a bunch in what looks like an effort to clear something on the stock turbos. I just had my LIM out and hogged out that rear secondary runner a bit in hopes of balancing it out with the unpinched front secondary runner.
I saw the GZ LIM at SevenStock and it looks like a nice solution for this problem. I want one. I think Rob Golden from Pineapple was also talking about the imbalance in his tech talk session at SevenStock. From what I understand, the GZ LIM does move the UIM forward about an inch or so, so you may need to consider if that will create any problems for your setup (strut bars, etc.). It also probably eliminates the ACV and EGR emissions passages, so that should be a consideration as well, if you have emissions requirements. You can also run an injector in each of the four runner, as the picture shows, so you'll probably need to re-work your fuel system a bit. I don't know if it works with typical "1600" fuel rails, or if it comes with its own fuel rail, or if one is available from GZ at additional cost.
NOTE: I don't have any insider knowledge about this product. I just saw it at SevenStock and since I had just been looking at my stock LIM with its pinched rear secondary runner it piqued my interest a lot. Don't take anything I have said as a certainty -- this is merely my own impressions and thoughts.
-Max
I know that a lot of people blow their rear rotors, but both times I have cracked apex seals on my engine, it was the front rotor. More air, same fuel = leaner than the rear. I wonder if the LIM imbalance is part of the reason I kill front rotors.
I think Jeff might be right that the GZ LIM might not work with stock turbos. The rear secondary runner on the stock LIM is pinched down a bunch in what looks like an effort to clear something on the stock turbos. I just had my LIM out and hogged out that rear secondary runner a bit in hopes of balancing it out with the unpinched front secondary runner.
I saw the GZ LIM at SevenStock and it looks like a nice solution for this problem. I want one. I think Rob Golden from Pineapple was also talking about the imbalance in his tech talk session at SevenStock. From what I understand, the GZ LIM does move the UIM forward about an inch or so, so you may need to consider if that will create any problems for your setup (strut bars, etc.). It also probably eliminates the ACV and EGR emissions passages, so that should be a consideration as well, if you have emissions requirements. You can also run an injector in each of the four runner, as the picture shows, so you'll probably need to re-work your fuel system a bit. I don't know if it works with typical "1600" fuel rails, or if it comes with its own fuel rail, or if one is available from GZ at additional cost.
NOTE: I don't have any insider knowledge about this product. I just saw it at SevenStock and since I had just been looking at my stock LIM with its pinched rear secondary runner it piqued my interest a lot. Don't take anything I have said as a certainty -- this is merely my own impressions and thoughts.
-Max
Last edited by maxcooper; 11-14-04 at 08:20 PM.
11-14-04, 08:16 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by mad_7tist
velocity/tumble etc have less impact on forced induction than a n/a application. the air fuel mix is being forced in the chamber so the largest smoothest opening that will maintain boost and efficency will make power.
11-14-04, 08:24 PM
#25
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Originally Posted by F0RSAKEN
Flow is flow. Forced induction or not, smoother, equal flow characteristics (for each rotor) will always make more power.
but in na just big high flowing hogged out heads do not make the same power as a well ported (good tumble/intake,exhaust velocity) motor will. agreed you can never go wrong with balance.