Please explain to me what it is you believe is crap about these IC's. Please submit something beyond asethetics too. Also, Mahjik do you actually have one or are you going off of photos?

I'm going off photos. I'm using the Pettit Coolcharge II and don't have a need for one of these. I showed the photos in this thread to an engineering buddy and he was amazed these were being sold (and purchased).

However, like I said before and what he said as well: It's not great, but it's useable.

What features about the XS IC made your buddy say what he did?

Amazed that they were being sold? That's a bit extreme unless you can back up your claims. And which photos are you going off? The ones that were recently posted?

Actually, there is already data on Kevin's IC's. There is no data on the XS Power SMIC.

http://fd3s.net/intercoolers.html

All the photos in this thread (not just Kevin's). He basically said the same things as Kevin (so no need to reiterate that). He also didn't know about the color of the welds on Kevin's IC. I'm going to bug another buddy of mine to see if he knows anything about Kevin's weld colors. If he has any information I'll post it here.

Asethetically these intercoolers are not bad. Again mine does not look any worse than the M2 unit at this link.
http://www.maxcooper.com/rx7/parts_info/ic/index.html
Check out the welds on this IC they aren't the greatest either. Core wise I am sure its a cheaper core but there again. 96% of the cooling efficiency is fine with me for 200.

It would be more accurate to say that most people on this thread are saying that they can tell time perfectly well on their $200 casio and don't need to spend $1500 for the rolex name.

Anyway, at this point we are all saying the same thing anyway.

It is interesting to note that the build quality of 1 recent example seems to be much lower that the earlier versions.

This is so wrong it is almost scary. Have you ever taken an elementary logic class?

cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

There are reams of data on the M2/ASP large - and next to no data on the eBay IC. And yet the M2 somehow needs to prove itself? The world would be a very strange place if this approach to product validation were adopted.

Kevin (from fd3s.net) "Okay, as promised I got the actual numbers and performance data for a few intercoolers. Although it was claimed that we would never know a real answer on the issue of IC's here it is. As the data shows below it is very clearly the case that a bigger IC core will increase performance. I hope this will now put the debate to an end and that the detractors will realize the error of their theories."

So basically he says the larger the IC, the more it will increase performance.

There is a chart showing the sizes and volumes of the IC's. I would like to add the XS to the list..

Thickness = 3.125" Width = 12" Height = 12" (I measured the fin area only, not the total width/height). Volume = 450

That puts the XS IC right up there with the best of them (bigger than the Greddy SMIC, but slightly smaller than the ASP Medium).

ehos you have a really strange way of looking at things. From that old thread where you tried to argue that mods don't help the RX7 much and people shouldn't bother doing any and now this odd stuff. The only thing that makes sense to me is you're trying to rationalize why the cheapest route, which you took, was the best at each step of the way. Although I don't think you have any malice or pent up anger it's just impossible to discuss anything with you so don't take it personally if I don't respond to you.

I just quoted you what you said Kevin. Or are you changing your mind about what you said?

Besides, I only spent $99 on my IC, I don't really care either way. I'd be upset if I spent $1500 and a 'cheap Chinese' knock off could do the same job.

I emailed them and they replied with the answer.

That's strange because I don't see where he posted that at all. Are you summarizing all his insults and put-downs into a simple neat statement? So if I stated that someone was a ragged cockroach POS, would you summarize it as I'm just saying that they are not a desirable person? I doubt it.
And where is this stated that ASP is the absolute best performance for a car? That's a pretty big claim.

Well, it's fact then! :rolleyes:

As Kevin mentioned, it's hard to believe they could produce the IC for $100 in China, let alone in the US.

BTW, I keep reading posts about XS owners fabricating their own ducts but haven't actually seen any photos posted of these ducts. Since the IC is worthless without a duct, I'd think there would have been photos of several setups posted....

There is a picture somewhere in this thread of the group-buy duct. I had a couple problems with fitment when I installed it, but now it covers all but the leftmost centimeter of the core so I'm fairly happy with it. If I have a chance this weekend I'll try to post a pic of my current setup.

I swear, you people are a colorful bunch. You didn't have much to say when they were thought to be made in China... that for a fact was speculation, but you accepted it.

Lol i still cant believe this thread is going. I know my 2c isnt going to make any difference at all to anyone's opinions but here you go anyway...

The price difference between the ebay intercooler and a named brand intercooler is monumental, it really is ridiculous. I honestly don't see how people can justify charging such a premium for the named brand intercoolers. I have hand made intercoolers before and i know i could make one for cheaper than the XS power intercooler, let alone a named brand.

E.g here the XSpower is £180 ($330) but a similar stock mount product is close to £1000 ($1834)

So the way i see it, is unless your intercooler is going to provide me more performance gain than say, an uprated fuel pump and PFC (which i doubt) then im NOT GOING TO SPLASH OUT THE EXTRA CASH. Unless of course, im mr moneybags and i have to have the best of the best.

However, i agree - when my car does have a PFC, radiator, coilovers, uprated fuel pump, fuel rail etc and im ready to upgrade my turbo, i WILL Be upgrading to a named brand cooler.

But in the short term for value for money (and not necessarily build quality or the absoloute maximum performance) the masses will be buying an XS power intercooler.

Whoever is the guy complaining about the XSpower intercooler and promoting his own product, you have a few choices. PROVE your intercooler to be far and away better than the XSpower intercooler (i.e provide more of a performance gain than $1400 of other parts) and/or PROVE the XS power intercooler to be unsafe to use, or shut the hell up. Dude, you have to accept that people aren't saying that XSpower intercoolers are the best thing since sliced bread. They are just saying that for the price, you can't beat them. Which is true. Im not debating your intercooler is better, because frankly youd be out of business by now if it wasnt with the prices your charging. But it IS comparitively expensive.

Example, when you go to the store for a pair of running shoes to use once a week, do you buy top of the range Nike's? No, because unless your a professional athlete, you have no need for the miniscule amount of performance gain that will come from the $150 increase in price.

Same deal bud.

Im not going to post in this thread again, because i already feel like im banging my head against a brick wall, and i havent even had anyone post an ignorant reply to my post yet. I will however put one question to you all:

If you have a standard car with just reliability mods and $2000, will you spend $1500 on an intercooler, or buy an IC and intercooler and get it tuned conservatively?

I understand that some people will not be comfortable using the XSpower stuff, but the masses will be.

I found this pretty funny. Hehe a Chinese place sends someone a turbo and surprise surprise it has an XS Power logo on it. The best part is when they ask XS Power about it they get told it's a cheap knockoff of the XS Power turbo made in some cave in China and that XS are all made in America HAHA, Georgia I bet. Oh yeah someone making a copy of XS Power product. So how do you explain this one?

"Update: On Monday August 29, 2005 the company that made our turbo contacted us. The company is ZH-Y TURBO CO.LTD. located in Fengcheng City, Liaoning Province of China. Not Taiwan as we originally thought.

They explained that the turbo we had was a design from three years ago. They continued to explain that the quality of their turbos has gone up and even exceeds the quality of Garret turbos. They went on to say that they have been developing so fast that their company has caught the attention of the whole world. They asked for our address so they could send us a "free sample".

We gladly accepted and it all went down hill from there. We replied that we had a T3/T4 50 trim with a .63 a/r stage 5 wheel. So then the turbo manufacturer replied back asking what that all meant. They were unsure what the terms meant. All they knew about was the T3/T4. How can a turbo manufacturer not know what trim, A/R and Stage 5 wheel means??

So we gladly explained that the turbo we had was a T3/T04e as it said on the tag on the side of the turbo. They then knew what we were talking about and offered to send us the turbo if we paid the freight charge.

Now this is where we get into a bit of a gray area. We offered to pay the freight charge thinking that it would cost a reasonable amount. Now a reasonable amount would be anything around $50 to $75 to ship since they said they were going to send it freight. To us that meant they were going to send it via ship or other means. AKA: The slowest shipping possible to save on costs.

To our surprise the turbo showed up on our doorstep within 3 days via UPS Express Air. Our UPS driver left it on our doorstep while we were out. No bill for shipping charges accompanied the box.

We opened the box and a shiny new turbo was inside. Complete with the words XS POWER written on the side. This confused us since we were under the impression that XS POWER turbos were distributed by SSAutoChrome in Creedmor, North Carolina. After a quick search on eBay we noticed that SSAutoChrome sells a turbo with the XS Power name. And after sending an e-mail to SSAutoChrome they confirmed that XS Power turbos are built in America. They mentioned that a company in California is distributing a cheap knock-off that is built in a cave somewhere. I think we found the company that makes the cheap knock-off as well as the location of the cave.

Two days later we received a bill from UPS. It was for the shipping charges for the turbo. Since the company took it upon themselves to ship the turbo UPS Express Air Freight we were charged $205 for shipping!!!

Upset, we e-mailed the company asking for an explanation. No reply. Another e-mail was sent a day later. No reply. We have been sending e-mails every day since Monday September 12, 2005 and so far there has been no reply.

We believe we were scammed. After disassembly of this turbo it looks to be of the same cheap quality as the original ZY Turbo we blew at the track. The following pictures explain it all.

(removed some long descriptions of the unit)

After more research into XS POWER turbos, we found a picture from a user that had problems with their compressor housing splitting. This turbo is IDENTICAL to the turbo we received from ZY Turbo in China.

This is identical to the turbo we received. Is this the 'quality' that ZY Turbo has to offer American performance enthusiasts?
This is an XS Power turbo sold by SSAutoChrome on eBay. You can see that it looks like a better unit. And it's made in America!

Which turbo would you rather have? We would rather not have this turbo. We would have been happier putting $205 towards a quality turbo from SSAutoChrome, Garret, Turbonetics or even getting a used turbo. ZY Turbo is hidden behind the walls of a communist regime with a plot to scam hard working American performance enthusiasts out of their hard earned money. They can scam anyone they want because how are we suppose to retaliate? We can't just hire a lawyer and sue them.

We strongly urge you not to buy a turbo with a black tag that says Turbocharger. Buyer beware!"

BobfisH,

I think you need to read my posts a little more closely. I actually agree with the vast majority of what you just posted and have been saying so all along. The problem is coming from a few people claiming the SS Autochrome stuff is just as good as any name brands and to say otherwise requires me to prove it's not supposedly.

The major problem right now is it has no duct so I can't even say that it's as good as the stock unit without one. With a duct I've said many times it will definately be better than stock and even without it's worth the $200 they charge for it. That's apparently not good enough for about 3 people though.

Anyway thought I'd mention that you might be misunderstanding me because we agree for the most part.

Kevin T. Wyum

Interesting, but I think I'm missing the point. Are you saying that the ebay ic's are rip-offs of the ssautochrome ic? Or that ssautochrome is covering for the fact that their products are built in a cave? Are we now saying that ssautochrome ic's are respectable but the ebay ic is not? I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, its late here and I'm reading while working.

Hmmm, so far 30 pages over an cheap intercooler...Well, if you have the money then GReddy, Blitz etc. surely will suit your needs but if you are like me, working over 10 hours/day and still not enough to make decent money then you'll go for what you get with the money you have. I just found from Yahoo's(Japan) auction a cheap FMIC-kit that I'll give a try, for only $360, good or bad, I really don't care as long as it does what it is supposed to do, better than the original, then I'm satisfied.
If it does it worse than the original ,then I have a nice paper weight, the money doesn't make any difference anyways, after 10 000 years nobody really cares.

http://i1.tinypic.com/sdif03.jpg

could you fool someone into thinking the greddy, blitz, M2 was stock? probably

could you fool someone into thinking the XS power is stock? probably not

the quality is questionable with the XS power

the quality is unquestionable with the greddy, blitz, M2 unit

The materials are better, the welding is better, the R&D is better; the price is higher. Is that price justifiable? Yes. It cost more to make and that cost plays out in price. You get what you pay for 90% of the time and XS isnt in the 10% left over. 9.99% of the time people pay too much. 0.01% of the time someone puts an item up for sale on the forum without knowing its worth or needs money real bad. Its a great bandaid. Its better than stock. That is my unbiased and unempirical judgement.

Court Adjourned.

No, I'm saying it's pretty obvious that at least the turbos they (SS Autochrome) sell are made in China, despite them telling these people they're made in America. The Chinese vendor that makes the turbos for them sent one of the XS turbos they make to these guys as a sample of quality of what they make. Essentially SS Autochrome got caught.

If a Chinese company was going to copy a turbo it wouldn't be the cheapest ones on the market. My guess in that case is that after SS Autochrome heard about the slip up they contacted their supplier and read them the riot act.

SS Autochrome / XS Power / the stuff on Ebay are all one in the same. Not sure where you got the idea of them being different somehow.

These guys are copying hundreds of products, many from some pretty good sized manufacturers. There's no way anyone in the US would make all these knock offs for them and take the obvious legal risks with a big fabrication facility and lots of assets. Someone in China on the other hand could care less about any such issues in the US.

Why can't they just fess up and say, yeah they're made in China? Well apart from the reputation of Chinese goods.

regarding XS turbos, i bought one for a laugh. Every bolt hole that was tapped to fix the compressor housing had bits of metal swarf sticking out of it.

it wont be going on my car!