Because of folks like u, that's exactly why there wasn't any information on the product.

 

Regardless of whether the price is too high, I applaud no one who steals someone elses intellectual property and charges a fraction of the original cost. Thats crap, and every business person who comes up with a better way to do something should be offended by that type of talk. Why bother inventing or developing anything if that is the case.

 

Agreed Senseny.

Folks that rip others off one way or another are just ******* losers and should be boycotted.

Also, if Jason tests this, gets favorable results, and works out a distribution agreement with PG-unlimited then "good-luck" to any 'tard that trys to copy and sell this on the forum.

That thread will get deleted so quick, along with the author.

 

The "real" flame-up over all this is that the guy trying to sell the snake oil can't even keep his story straight.

First it was 315 RWHP on a Mustang dyno at only 8-10 psi. That was obviously complete bullshit, so he quickly changed his story.

Next it was "well, I added 15% to make my numbers Dynojet-compatible", so it was only 274 RWHP on the Mustang dyno. Never mind that even 274 RWHP on a Mustang dyno with stock twins (clipped or not) at only 8-10 psi is still an accomplishment that everyone would like to know the secret behind, I'm sure. Must be the plugs.

But he still hasn't answered the question of why, with the dyno sheet right in front of him, his peak torque reading would have resulted in more horsepower than his claimed peak of 274...

Does anyone have a problem buying from someone who brings up a dyno session that only took place a week or so ago as proof of the validity of his product, yet can't get his numbers right?

Of COURSE he's willing to sell them for $100-150 a pair now... he's destroyed his credibility and now he'll sell them for whatever he can get.

 

Honestly, if it works, GREAT! But 450.00 for 2 bolts REGARDLESS of R&D is hardly understandable. I'd like to think that a community like this would not try to make so much money off eachother, but offer to keep eachother alive. I don't really think that this is an "invention" by any means.. It's 2 bolts that replace sparkplugs. ****, if It was me, I'd just hand the info out for everyone to use. Many people here have been willing to share ideas they've come up with for no charge.. Maybe I'm crazy.. who knows. At any rate, good luck to those who use these, and best wishes to the person profiting.

 

Shhhh... you'll ruin his chances of selling any.

 

Disagree. This would be true if there was real development work involved. When the product is snake-oil or a obviously simple device and the seller is charging ridiculous prices in order to rip off a few unsuspecting buyers before the truth gets out, the prices should be driven down by honest competition.
The original price was like the airconditioner repairman charging you $1500 to replace your filter during the heat of the summer. legal? yes; moral? no-way.

jimlab - agree with both your posts ....

 

Something tells me that if Skip was posting here selling his product it would be adequately defended (from a technical point of view and his justifications for the cost) as opposed to Steven responses that his "*** hurts" from the pounding he has been taking. Just my opinion.

 

I think this thread should now focus on the product, testing and tuning.

Steven's responses should be inmaterial, since it really doesn't benefit folks from the flamage.

 

tmiked, what is 30 years of work in a field worth? Maybe the better part of a lifetime devoted to working with rotary engines is worth more than a few bucks if you can develop something that saves people their engines in many situations where detonation occurs.
I am going to stop commenting here because Skip is a friend and I don't want to misrepresent him in any way. I do not want to do more harm then good and Skip if I have, believe me, I apologize and regret it.

 

So let's see some results! His responses are to be taken into consideration because instead of moving the topic in this direction with numbers, pictures, and specs...he retorts that "hey, if you don't believe me, don't buy it"

 

If the makers knew people would complain of the high price for their simple and cheap production piece and THAT is why they kept the lid on the "detonation device" that is simply deceitful and means that the retail price is WAY off.

Well, as a consumer I'd feel RAPED by the maker if I bought this product for that price considering it's a fairly simple and VERY low cost final product. There is absolutely nothing honorable about screwing a community out of much more money than a product is actually worth in production/development costs.

I'm asking for a real balance of production/development cost to the final product price. I'm all for someone making money off their own idea if it works, but the margins are WAY off here.

Show me how there was so much money spent in developing this product as to make $500.00 a legit price and I'll shut up.

 

Well, not everyone reacts the same if they or their product gets attack.

I don't think too many people on this forum have enough diplomacy left.

If someone attacks u, chances are that u won't react to well, even though it may serve ur long-term interests by being polite and "turn ur other cheek".......

 

A couple of quick points...

Stephen's poing of putting plugs in and disconnecting the wires seems like a simple and cheap way of achieving hte same goal, provided you clean them every so often.

Brian's idea of running the 21 split is another alternative...which may prove to be even better

Amidst all this tech talk, believe it or not, I think I've lost the sense of the exact mechanism that occurs to cause detonation...and how that specifically relates to the trailing plugs. Can anyone chime in on that?

Also...while yea these are obviously over-priced, why is everyone goin off on only this guy? Doesn't KDR charge the same amount (and it's pretty much safe to assume at this point they're virtually the same concept)?

 

Amen!!

 

I seriously doubt that's as important as people (Batman especially) are trying to make it seem...

Maybe after all the hype, people were expecting something a little more advanced than a couple bolts to fill your spark plug holes with...

 

Exactly. I want some high-tech sensors and gadgets.

 

I'm not sure if they knew about the abject reactions to the price since 60+ units have been sold so far.

Of course u might feel raped, but that is inmaterial to copying someone else's design and selling it for less.

Look at the problems the USA was/are have with countries like China/Taiwan copying **** without paying royalties. Look at the problems that RIAA have with folks downloading free music.

Of course u might argue that u don't want to pay $$$$ for a song. Afterall, it's intangible and therefore has even less material wealth than 2 plugs that can save u from spending thousands $$$ on another engine.

What if the machine shop that he is working with says that to get a good price he has to commit $$$ upfront for 500 units to get the end user price down to $100 for the set?

He now has to decide if it's worth the risk to front the cash.

OK, u might talk about a group buy. But as Jimlab and anyon that has done a GB knows, it's a real ******* bitch to get people to commit, collect the $$$, keep folks interested, deal with shipping errors, and so forth.

Is that worth his time or that of anyone?

It might be if he made some $$$.

Keep in mind that there may be some retooling costs that will have to be factored in the product when the first few sells. That is why whenever u see the latest and greatest technology at Best Buy, the prices of the plasma TV, for example will be high. When more sell and it approaches the distribution quantities near a commodity level then the price goes down since retooling, R&D, and other intial costs are accounted for.

 

and maybe a LASERRRRRRRRRRRRRRR !!!!

 

If you want to shut-up all us doubters - here's the best way to do it.

Get a bunch of people together at a dyno somewhere.

Put these "things" in your car.

Tune it to an A/F (or octane) that "should" make your Wankel spit it's apex seals - if it doesn't - then you can make claims.

Otherwise - it's just as impressive as the anti-detonation rock that I've been hearing so much about. haha

 

somone say laser?


Light amplification by stimulated emissions radiation.

(if i remember correctly from chem )

 

Sorry, I just wanted to mark my place...

 

Okay. I don't get how some people compare this new product to just unplugging a plug or throwing a bolt in the plug hole. The difference is that this fires three times from two plugs (like it has three plugs). How is that at all like just unplugging a plug. I don't see how it's the same thing.

If you unplug a plug, the plug that is still in the housing will only fire once (so, it will be firing one time for one plug v. firing three times for two plugs). This attack does not make sense at all. I'm sorry.

I'm not disagreeing with whoever is talking about the 21 split setting because I don't know anything about that. I'm just wondering how people are thinking that it would be like the same thing if you threw a bolt in or just removed a plug as throwing in a plug that would fire twice. PLEASE EXPLAIN...
Thank you.

 

I understand all this, but not enough to justify $500.00 for a pair of plugs with shaped ends There is such a thing as making your profit margins realistic and though there is no competition for this product now, if it works, there will be and that asking price will come down dramatically. Call me crazy, but taking in your entire expenditure of cost in just 2 or 3 sales is immoral

 

I agree with Jon. And also, wasn't the initial price from KDR $500??? Now it's $700... How can you say that the price will go down when it went up 40% of the original value. That's not going down in price. Both prices were for the "anti-det. device" and for the tuning.