Do you think I could put these things in place of my spark plugs on my Supra?


Bwahahahahaha - this is by far the greatest thread ever.

 

TECHNICAL THOUGHT HERE - DANGER!
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OK I know everyone is having fun talking about this product, but I thought I'd make one comment on the issue of the 26B engine and the three plug design.

In the 26B, 3 plugs were found to be about 2-3% better fuel economy and 2-3% better torque compared to the standard 2 plug setup. Fuel economy is very important in a long race. Based on this, we can probably say that 2 plugs compared to only 1 is most likely another 2-5% power loss with only one plug.

HOWEVER... Most (every?) person interested in an anti det device is running a TURBO car.... the 26B was N/A. Therefore, I'd like to see what Mazda would have done if the 26B was a turbocharged engine. Would they still have gone with 3 plugs? 2? 1? We don't know.

I think that to say that since the 26B (an N/A peripheral port factory sponsored race engine) uses 3, then 1 plug must wrong... is wrong.

It has been a theory of mine for over a year that the trailing plug is a source of problems and that's why I run my split at 21 degrees everywhere! My car still runs great at 21 split. I tried running 20, 15, 10, 5 split and guess what? The KNOCK sensor went nuts and the dyno didn't show ANY more power!

Brian

 

What would people say to a group buy at a price people seem comfortable with? From what I've read thus far, price seems the major problem here, or at least the number one thing among others. Seems like $100~150 is what people would be comfortable with, let's go for a group buy. I would rather sell 20 at $100 then none at $450 right now until people start using and posting feedback.

Everyone is correct, I could have done this a lot better but I'm new to this so trial and error will be the name of the game. Skip and KDR still have their own product; you can still purchase this product from them, and works just as well. The product I'm offering is from another company that has nothing to do with Skip or KDR. I cannot comment on whether this product shares the same technology, I'm personally bound by the NDA I signed back in August of 2003 with Skip, which is still in effect today. Thing is, once I knew what the product was, finding another resource on it just needed time before finding another company that offers it.

If you feel that strongly about loyalty to Skip and KDR, please feel free to purchase their device. I even encourage you to do so; they also have a great product and have in depth knowledge on tuning.

Thanks,

Steven

 

You could 'run' 87 octane and still eliminate detonation entirely !!!!

 

The later 2/3's of page 7 is where the discussion should be.

Of course the precious pages have been littered with nay sayers since they "don't " have enough information and are upset about being ****-teased.

XSTransAm, to custom machine the plugs it will cost more than $1 per plug.

dcfc3s, early on I believe KDR's initial interests was to pursue the patent. This is the reason why information was to mislead folks so that they don't copy the product.

Sure, there were many pages of threads that people got upset and tried to beat the bushes by calling bullshit.

What did they expect?

"Dear rx7form high council, here is the detail description of the patent. BTW, please don't try to ripe this off. thank u and have a nice day."

 

Can anyone tell me why this is better than just leaving a spark plug in there....or just throwing a bolt in it???

Carbon build up you say? So what, the entire rotor is covered in it anyway, whats a little more going to hurt lol

Just use a spark plug, keep it disconnected and pull it out to clean it every so often. You could do like someone else mentioned and run 21 degrees split so its basically not doing anything, but the spark still keeps it clean.

I MIGHT can formulate a benifit to running leading only BUT, I cant think of a benifit to these $450 "butt plugs".

Tell ya what, Steve Kan will be tuning my car in a couple months. If you want me to test them with before and after dyno sheets I'll be glad to. I think my expense of paying a professional tuner and paying for dyno time and a write up would be more than enough to justify you sending me a pair for $25 shipped. I'll be able to compare the hp/tq, a/f ratio, and egt's with back to back runs. If I like what I see I might even tune my car with the plugs in place and see if I can make more power with them by leaning it out, ect

STEPHEN

 

Do Supdawgs have 2 plugs per cylinder?

BTW, I don't know any SUpra guys that have the ***** to run 87 octane at BPU and 15+psi.

Every Supra guy that I have asked to do that back out, knowing that they might suffer a case of RX7itis.

 

I will do some testing on the dyno with this and let everyone know the results. If it works, great. All the haters will get a big

 

So after reading all this, I'm a little lost, did Steven get a little close, then run off with the idea leaving Skip screwed?

 

Jason, I got the package to UPS this morning. Give me a call once you receive it.

Thanks,

Steven

 

Thanks for this post dale. I was waiting for someone to say it.

No offense meant to you personally Steven, but this is what happens when you let a bean counter do a job that was never intended for them.

Greed is a killer, and this thread is living proof. Had you gone about this in a different you could have looked like a godamn genius!!! But, you got caught up in how many debits and credits your were going to receive, and...well...here we are.

 

 

So...I have a question. Everyone is saying this is like having only one spark plug? I thought (from the picture) it looks like this is making it act as if there are three spark plugs. I thought the firing of spark plugs occurs three times from two spark plugs. Twice from the trailing and once from the leading??? It fires in this order: Trailing--Leading--Trailing So tell me if I missed anything here. I think it's a really good idea and I doubt that many other people would have focused in on this part of the engine to make it beneficial. I give them credit on this and it might actually be worth the money to get it. Thanks,

Craig

 

BTW Did not realize that this thread hasn't even been going on for 24 hours. I think we're setting a record here for the fastest growing thread ever!!! LOL

 

Steven..

Hope you sent it overnight.
Jason hurry up.. = )

Anyone else testing these plugs??? besides Jason??
Being that Jason probably will sell these out his store
that doesn't exactly make him a 3rd unbias person.
- No offense Jason

As it was stated before about metals and tolerances.
What are these PLUGS made of??? or is that secret?

And if these plugs are what they claim to be..
It will be a god send to the Rotaries.

** mental note **
Tune PFC. 21split on trailing plugs..

 

It fires in this order, leading, trailing, leading - lower, upper, lower. So you would still have 2 sparks if you used this. What i was think about last night was what if you made the leading plug fire 3 time per rotation when using this plug. More burnt fuel and if you time it right no more "brackdraft" against the sweeping apex seal.
Just a thought.

But a GB would deffinity be great, lemme know.

And yes this has to be the fastest growing thread of all time.

 

I am one of the original, KD installed, purchasers of the product. I won't comment if Steven's device is the same thing, but I am guessing since most of you seem to be pretty smart you can figure out what seems to have happened here.
I bought the "device" on Skip and KD's word, and after finding out what I bought, I may have felt like I overspent for the actual product, but I hope not for the results. That is where my feelings stand today. I like and personally trust Skip, Dave and Kim.
Now for results, my car is moderately tuned. Dave dynoed it at 304rwhp and 280lb/ft of torque at 13psi, I have Greddy FMIC, PFC with commander, Bonez DP and Bonez hiflo cat, Greddy intake and catback, 1300CC secondary injectors, hipo fuel pump. It is running very well. I PASSED PA emissions with flying colors with the device.
I am not , repeat not, a amatuer/professional mechanic or any sort of expert by any means. I cannot competently talk about air/fuel ratios and the like. I am just posting my experience.

 

You want to get a group buy going on a product for which you can't answer to the online community's skepticism? You've said you'd "go right down" and take pictures of them installed, as well as post the dyno sheets. What's the holdup on that?

You need to provide answers as to the fundamentals of sealing the trailing hole. Many have spoken out about the angular precision required and liklihood of a leftover gap due to the near impossibility of that kind of precision. I personally wouldn't buy one since you're entirely unwilling to stand by *your own* product and answer our questions. I know you don't care if I buy one, from your "fine, don't buy it...you'll see. you'll be sorry" attitude, but don't be surprised if this is the overwhelming response instead of your desired "oh he doesn't care if i buy it?! it must be good! hook me up!".

Furthermore, why does your *** hurt? Trying to find out if this device prevents **** detonation?

 

I think everyone here needs to separate a couple of issues out....

1 - Does the product work? If, in the long run, we see more people having longevity in their engine builds using this... I guess it does.

2 - Is the product better than just unplugging the stock plug? Well maybe, maybe not. How many of us have bought aftermarket ASTs when the factory one works fine as long as you inspect it for leaks. What about people with "turbo timers"? Those things aren't any different than just idling your car yourself! In other words, what you're buying here is the convenience of a nice, neat deletion of a plug.

3 - Is the price right? Ultimately, the market will determine the price. If people will pay X dollars, then that's that.

I think the real flame-up over all this is that the much talked about mod turns out to be a fairly simple concept and is for sale at a price that apparently isn't too attractive to the majority.

Jason will be receiving a set and he will dyno test them.

I am REALLY HOPING to see some very detailed and complete test information. I want to know times, dates, temperatures, timing maps, etc, etc, etc. Everyone that's ever tuned their own car knows numbers can vary by 25-50 hp just by changing around a few things (like the first run on a cool morning vs an afternoon run with 100 degree air temps, no fan, and a heat soaked car.

Let's see some FAIR tests Jason! I'm sure the community will appreciate that. If possible, I think it would be GREAT if you could post your *.dat file from the test car AND *.log files from each actual dyno pull so that those of use with PFCs can see EXACTLY the conditions that were present.

I'm hoping that the dyno shows that these WORK!! I'm a believer in the concept, but I'm not too sure about the price myself.

Brian

 

I made an attempt to read this thread but the horrid stench of the bullshit drove me away. I hope all the self important people got whatever they were looking for.


You can fool some of the people all of the time or you can fool all of the people some of the time. This thread is asking for both

 

Any threads that drive u away when I make a visit is a good thing.

Now that the "secret" is out, it would be a great thing for the 60+ customers that already have this device in their FC & FD's.

BTW, maybe we should move this to rotary performance since this isn't just for the FD folks.

 

Come on guys, you want to test this? Going to a dyno soon? Unplug your plugs and give it a wurl..


Then if it works, think about buying it from them.

 

Dont some ppl use the Jacobs Pack to retard the trailing plus firing or cut it off entirely. How does eliminating the firing of the TP affect power ???

 

Ok, first of all I think the term "reseach and development" is thrown around a bit too lightly. It's not like you had a team of highly respected and highly paid scientists think-up and test, then re-test this product over and over again and the final result is the culmination of offsetting their salaries and the money they used up in company assests. This isn't a new wonder-drug or magic pill that essentially costs nothing to make but fortunes to create. It's a pair of plugs that probably took a very small group some personal time to create/produce and nothing more. Doesn't sound like it's worth $500 to me

Keeping that in mind, $500 is an OUTRAGEOUS price for 2 plugs with shaped ends. To be totally honest, I think $100 is way too much money to charge and people are only happy with that price since it's 1/5th of the original asking price. Had they originally been posted @ $100.00 people would be complaining about high cost as well.

If these pieces DO work, I applaud the first person to buy a set and have them knocked off at a local machine shop and charge $20.00 a pair on ebay.

 

Yep, that pretty much hits the nail on the head.

Since the concept is so wimple, I don't see why some folks would want to talk so much **** about it and don't simply disconnect their trailing plugs and do the tuning and test themselves.

Instead, we get a bunch of cry babies that was at the local strip joint and blamed the stripper for giving them blue ***** where they can just unplug their wankels and drain their teabags........