I don't see how there is anyway a patent can cover all bases on the product/idea. Legally, there has to be some way for someone to come up with a variation on it or thee would be no businesses or competition. I believe the purpose of a patent is to protect a specific element/ingredient in a product and not the product itself. For example, if the product were coated in X with a special or original coating then I could sell a similar producted coated in Y and the customer chooses based on things like price, quality, performance, availability and customer service. It's called business

 

It also depends on the application.

for example, u can patent a hole filler for just merely filling the hole.

howver, if he makes a claim that the prupose of filling the hole is specifically part of the design of minimizing/eliminating detonation then that is entirely different.

 

See, as many said, this guy just **** out random info to try to come off as knowledgeable enough to sell the product, but he cant break that by the Rx-7 forum gurus lol

 

what seems funny to me is "TrailPlug® is intended for use on RX-7 model years 1993-1995 only at this time."

we must have special engines

BTW: This product should cost 5 bucks, even then, the markup would be quite a bit!

on another note: does anyone actually believe that the little nub on the end of this bolt actually makes a difference? like people have said before, you cant make it 100% flush and if you can't, it would leave room for a bit of carbon to develop which totally nullifies the point for the reason of the nub in the first case haha. if this is what the kdr special magical anti-det devices actually is, all i gotta say is wow... its even worst thing i ever though. Actually its just about as bad as i would have suspected haha

as for 60+people testing this device, i say hell yes... only because I know its hard for good rotary engine builders to make a living and they could really use the extra money and work!

 

sorry, double post

 

"A patent is a property right granted by the Government of the United States of America to an inventor “to exclude others from making, using, offering for sale, or selling the invention throughout the United States or importing the invention into the United States” for a limited time in exchange for public disclosure of the invention when the patent is granted."

It seems that if the patent has not yet been granted, anyone can run out and make this. Or for those people who already have them, make a variation on it with different design, material etc...

 

Good try, but if you patent a hole filler for eliminating detonation. I can still sell the same hole filler for the purpose of filling the hole. If the buyer uses it to minimize detonation, I am not infringing.

The real problem is the USPTO issues patents on almost anything these days without doing more than token research. It the becomes a battle of lawyers and of course $$$ to decide infrengement. I assume this device will never get a design patent as the cost of the patent and the defense would be higher than any possible profits. They could well get a provisional patent just to extend the hype/BS value of this snake oil.

 

I love how this thread goes from the product is BS to the price is too high, to a few people on the poo poo list, to patent talk.

Pomanferrari can probable shed some light on this matter.

I'm not a patent attorney and i suspect that most of u aren't.

But my information comes from working with my patent firm.

 

Some things to be cleared up. I would assume Steven posted the $450 price based off of what KDR sells them for. He personally told me that he knows he is not going to get that much for them. Probably more in the $150 range. Im sure some think that is way to much, but I bet I could sell them all day at that price as long as they work. As soon as they are here I will test them on the dyno with graphs to back it up. Some of you need to take a pill and relax. Stop beating a dead horse and wait for the tests.

Jason

 

unless something has changed, last i heard in the USA it's first to invent, not first to patent.

granted that u can provide proof....

 

interesting

X...

 

The incentive was to get all of the business and create mistrust towards the other vendors. Which indeed it did. Now the price is so competitive that those that can't make a profit are blown out of the water. This only involves the private sector.

First of all it wasn't my company (and I mean it as Pres), I was a lead engineer there, wore many hats but still it wasn't my company. Reason why I'm not there is because I would have had to go to China for long periods of time (possibly even move there). I like traveling but not that much.

And they are very well still alive and kicking. They not only have steady money coming in from smartcard sales but still make gobs of cash by the manufacture of smartcard machinery.

This company is *the sole proprietor* of smartcard machinery for the Chinese national ID. The Chinese goverment only wants to buy Chinese made smartcards. And any company who wants to make the cards has to BUY from my old company. Do you have any idea how many machines are needed to make smartcards for a national ID for a country that has over a one billion people? There were talks of been there for at least six moths, then coming home for three, then going back for six more until the machines were completed. I think that's gonna be like 2007.



Then IMO unless the kid on bay makes quality no one would buy from him. So it goes back to vendors who can make a profit at a reasonable price. <--- But that's too easy of an answer. But moral of the story is don't gauge and you won't get F-ed by competitors.

Again sorry for the highjack

 

I love MTV "Boiling Point"

 

Right, but if the patent is not yet granted then the product is not yet protected meaning go out and make a plug.

 

if it's granted then that makes the "2nd" place person an infringer

 

That's interesting Brian, I found on my car that when tuning it on a dyno I got more power the lower the split. Admittedly I only started with a 12 degree split and gradually took it down to 8, but every reduction resulted in an increase in power. Not a huge amount, but 20bhp more at 8 than 12 seemed worthwhile to me.

 

The higher split he does I think is for detonation not power.

 

Looking foward to the results, please keep us informed with how well these things do on the dyno.

 

Any ideas on what the safe lower AFR you can aim for is?

I'd previously gone on 11:1 to peak torque then leaned out to 11.5:1 there after. However, a mates car has had a small fueling issue of late which resulted in it running 12:1 to peak torque and up to 13:1 there after. Accepted these are not regarded as safe values on an FD, but the difference in performance was noticeable - stock car with PFC, silenced midpipe and backbox running 0.7bar 1/4 of 13.0 at 110mph with a 2.1sec 60' Who knows how long it will last, but it has done at least 1k miles including 15+ 1/4s with this fueling.

 

Steven had told me that he runs 12.5:1 A/F

Skip's right around there too.

 

ok, where are they? I would like to hear their feedback.

As far as overtightening and cracking apex seals. Could this happen with the spark plugs too?

fatman-There was a thread on timing in this forum regarding making more power with a decreased split. And yes, he did comment on power with split, not just decreasing detonation.

Jimlab-I don't think that was meant towards you as a sleight at all, just as a handy example. I didn't consider the parallel with "unobtanium" until after you posted.

 

a few have replied in this thread and other threads.

most have signed NDA's and for some reason have adhered to it.

best to coax Skip in letting them do the chit chat.......

 

Post up a couple of dyno's and prove it. That's all the people here are looking for.

Or better yet - have a meet... fill the car with 87 **** fuel and crank the boost. Simple as that... THEN you will get some believers.

 

Batman, so you're saying that 60some people signed NDAs, and thus are utterly worthless (no offense to them)?? I mean, what's the point in being a test dummy for a product when you can't say anything about it? Kinda shooting yourself in the foot at best, don't you think??

For the few who haven't signed the NDA, please speak up. At the least, acknowledge that your engine is still alive and kicking! lol

Also Batman, I wasn't quite sure I understood the bit about the stock ECU... you said you can't put your TrailPlugs in yet because the trailing plugs are required for startup if you're not tuned. If you have a stock ECU, you can't tune in the first place, it's static, and so according to you they would have trouble w/ startup? (Which would mean it's NOT compatible w/ the stock ECU up to 15 psi...unless that's after you get the car going hehe)

Jason, I'm glad you're going to be testing these out soon. I'm really curious if the power loss you'll experience by eliminating the trailing plugs will be overcome by the power gains of running a leaner mixture...because if they end up balancing out, you've basically done nothing...(as far as I understand).

Oh and as Jason has affirmed (and like I said before), this guy's price is based upon and close to what KDR is asking. I don't think people should be so outraged at him per say...it's more that we're surprised it's such a simple device (if you can call it that), that's been sold for so high. Only diff I see between him and KDR is he's not as well prepared to defend himself...so if you don't like his price, you should be equally pissed @ KDR... (not trying to start probs for KDR..just trying to put things into prespective, cuz it seems like everyone's giving this guy the brunt of the blame)

 

First of all, can someone please explain to Batman how to use the quote button so that he doesn't have to sit by his computer all day, hitting the refresh button and getting his post in directly after the post he wants to quote?? And secondly, what's up Batman, where's your answer to Assud's question??