Still no Dyno Sheets or pics....

What is the point of the smaller hole anyhow !? Why not widen (Port) the hole, and reduce carbon buildup...
(pattended Idea) @ $225.00 (50%) reduction from butt plug or $50 group buy !

 

.I just called my local mazda dealer and an OEM apex seal goes for $75.42 and that includes their ridiculous dealer markup.

My point still stands that it's waaay over priced. I just proved it twice. All this is a bolt made out of the same material as the housing but coated with something. So the manufacturing price can't be that much. Nor is it such a niche market to charge $450.00.

 

Chrome, They'd have to be coated with chrome, to "Blend" into the surrounding material (Sorry did I spoil the suprise ?)

 

is anyone else reminded of the story "The Emperors New Clothes"?

 

It is amusing to read all these PhD's in Economics. In a free market, the price is set by demand, not the cost of production. No one makes you buy the product; if you think it is too expensive, don't buy it.
Don't steal it either. If it's such a simple idea, how come no one else thought of it?

 

Okay...I'm just confused now...

 

I'm putting Two Cheeks on the end of my bolts and selling them for less yet offering 12.5% more metal ! 2% more heat dissipation And they're guaranteed Original "Butt" Plugs !

 

I will agree with u on the testing information being released beforehand.

But PG and KDR are 2 seperate entities.

There other elements such as a NDA that prevents PG from going public in the beginning.

 

From my understanding, it fires like normal on the face...and then the leading fires one more time. And then this process is repeated three times per one rotation of the rotor???

 

Mazda makes larger quantities of the apex seals that PG and KDR combined production of their product.

And as Rallimike and others have said, if u don't like the price, don't buy it.

No one is forcing anyone to buy it.

 

Simply to reiterate what others have said... $450 is RIDICULES for this product. It's silly to argue any other way. If all the "research and development" for a product this simple (I don't care what anybody says, it's a relatively simple product to make) was so expensive that you have to sell these things for $450 each, the maker of this product f*cked up. While doing the research and development, one should keep the total cost of the end product in mind. The developer can't just assume that people will pay anything for something just because you (the developer) put a lot of time researching it. In the end, these things should cost much less than $100 and the developer should have kept that in consideration while making it.

On another note, what research has even been done!?! I see a webpage with a bunch of BS. Someone just wrote some rotary combustion philosophy, and said that this is the cure for any detonation problem. How about some dyno results with A/F curves, or some time proven working engines with this installed. How about some comments on the material of these things or scientifically why these things are better than just leaving you plugs in and unplugging the wires. How about some comments about the amount of HP lost with two plugs removed at the same A/F ratio with both plugs in, or the gain of running leaner with only one plug per combustion. In other words... give the potential buyers of this product some REAL scientific data about how/why this product is so great.
What I'm saying is, don't tell me that the $450 is for research and development costs when clearly VERY LITTLE scientific research and development has been done.

My favorite part is that this product is supposed to save your apex seals from detonation, yet the first warning is in regard to premature apex seal wear...
"Increase combustion temperatures from leaner A/F ratio's, leading to apex seal damage, rotor face damage, turbo damage, and other heat susceptible damage."

This is an insult to people who buy after market products for their cars... implying that we would pay ANYTHING b/c some BS paragraph says that its a great product.

 

then there must be alot of them at 60+ already using it..........

 

It's greedy and immoral.

 

Yet another anti-det thread that has turned into garbage and is now a useless bandwidth waster.

I think the price has been harped on enough, drop it already. The rest of this thread has no point -- the only people who can shed any light at this point are Steven (where are your dyno and testing results?) and the guinea pigs who have been using this product.

Batman, are you even running this product? If not, you really have nothing to contribute at all, since this isn't even related to Skip or KD Rotary.

Let's wait for some REAL data, folks, until we get it, there isn't anything else to say.

 

Good lord...less than 24 hours since the original post, and this thread is already up to 11 pages?! I'd say this is a pretty controversial subject...

 

I'm waiting for my local guy to finish moving to his shop so I can have this dyno'd

 

So they are installed in your car right now? And you have been driving around with them? How about a picture

 

Good points. Some people need the chill. Its not the end of the world, so relax.

Jason

 

It would be one thing if these guys charged $450 for the unit(s), dyno tuning and a guarantee against detonation caused by their tuning/product. But $450 for the fancy spark plug shaped hex bolts and a discalimer saying, "Good luck tuning your car, be careful..." just isn't worth it to me.

I won't be buying them. I wish I had "spare" FD to play around with to try out just disconnecting the trailing plugs, etc... But, recenlty sunk an Assload of money in my new motor and I am no willing to risk it.

Good luck Alain. Pls. let us know how it works out in your FD. It would be cool if you could do a detailed write up on your experience with them.

John

 

I dont think any of this would have happend if the dyno sheet and a picture of the plugs installed in the car was posted. But as you can see, no pictures, just BS.

 

no, not on the car.

when u install the plugs, u'll need to zero out hte trailing plugs.

starting the car depends on the trailing plugs until it's tuned properly.

I'm going to have www.racetune.com tune the car.

as u can see on his site, he is in the middle of moving shop.

 

I shall.

BTW, SKip has told me that they got 450RWTQ~ on a T78.

I'd say the TQ numbers are pretty impressive.

 

u forgot the other half were people are bitching about the price.

 

so then why does the site say its compatable with the stock ECU?

 

I have a feeling that you post was directed at me since I'm the one who is talking about production costs. So I'll reply.

Here is something to amuse you: If your profit margin is too great, your competition will blow you out of the water.

Don't over charge and no one will take interest in stealing your product. Hence there isn't enough profit to undergo such a headache. But the second that your competition realizes that they can make the same product and charge 1/8 ($50) of the price and still make a profit your company is dead.


so was the invention of the wheel. What's your point?


I saved this for last because it's the best. Awww if only economics was that simple. There are various factors that affect the "supply and demand" and ultimately the price. Right off the top of my head: consumers, resources, competition, production costs, weather, stock market, blah, blah, blah... Aint that simple after all.

Let me tell you a little story here:

I used to be in the smartcard industry. We were a start up company of not even 5 years. Our niche was to make machines for the production of smartcards.

Our customers were selling their manufactured cards (made from our machines) to their customers (big companies) for almost $4.00 each. Supply and demand right? There are only a few smartcard manufacturers so the ongoing price was to gauge.

What did we do? A company with ten people? We went into the smartcard manufacturing bussiness. But instead we SOLD THEM FOR $0.99!!! Cut the WORLD market price by 1/4!!! and still made a substantial profit because we got all of their customers. Other manufacturers called several times trying to entice us to raise the prices up, not because they could not compete but because they wanted to still make those killer profits.

Don't assume that everyone on this board is a 20 year old who dosen't know what they are talking about.