zkeller

iTrader: (47)

Who sells Aquamist. Do you Jason?

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

Is the difference between the aquamist and other WI kits simply that you can precisely tune water/fuel w/ it?

And I take it that doing so not only helps prevent detonation, but it drops intake temps increasing your HP?? Is that the other reason behind using WI?

HobbeZ

WI has alot of advantages.. I've heard it steam cleaning your engine ? reducing the amount of carbon build up.. not 100% sure on that one.. There are different models of aquamist kits.. there is the 2D one that is programed already spray depending on like your injector duty cycle or soemthing and there is also another kit that you can program

zkeller

iTrader: (47)

I am choosing not to run the mod. Last year after getting it installed and all the 87 Octane hype, I blew the motor in three days. I started the " I have the mod and do not care what it is thread" about a year ago.

What an idiot I was. I was all caught up in the stigma at the time and I appologize in advance for my childishness.

I know of two other people, one was multiple, engine's that went too.

A problem that was rectified after the fact was that the trailing was plugged,(in essence shorting to ground) but the trailing coils were still being fed voltage thus causing a short in the ignition system. This was probably causing all sorts of issues with timing, feedback through the ignitor possibly, overheating of the components, etc. Plug wires were still attached obviously.

My word of advise is not to thnk that once installed, there is no chance of losing a motor. It was a 5,000 lesson for me. It is NOT a replacrment for good tuning!

zkeller

iTrader: (47)

Where to buy??? I have searched around the net and it appears that the kits are sold in the UK and Autrailia, but no dealers in the US. I am interested in the Aquamist products.

pomanferrari

iTrader: (1)

I'm laughing my *** off about these Buttplugs. How the plot thickens.

Just as I thought, the only real use for them is when you're racing ZO6 or BPU Supras.

Mr. Steven of PG-Crock of **** Unlimited must have been a former Enron accountant.

HobbeZ

i'm pretty sure Jason sells the aquamist kit.. My friend used on when he turbo'd his MR-s and it worked great.. if u search on the rx7store.net you'll find um.. u can search the net there maybe a cheaper price but not by much

artowar

iTrader: (1)

Jason has the Aquamist 2d listed in the store for purchase.

This forum is good for manufacturer support:

http://waterinjection.info

badass7

O.K., I'm waiting on the new thread
"Anti-Det Un-installed and thrown in the Garbage"

The Marketing of this device has turned into a total joke. I wouldn't buy it just for that reason alone.

Best thing to do is to just pony up the $$ and have a pro. Like Steve Kan or Jason tune your car.

twokrx7

iTrader: (1)

This has turned into a WI thread ... lol

Aquamist can be bought in US, here is the Aquamist website listing for US vendors:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4-USD.html

This is the guy I bought from I think, been awhile:

Georges Imports Ltd
Specialist on high flow water
injection systems on large engines
8011 State Line Road
Kansas City
MO 64114
USA
TEL: +1 816 333 6582
FAX: +1 816 361 2096
Email: brad@kcsaab.com
Website: www.kcsaab.com
Contact: Brad Schaffner

Here are the rest:

PPE Engineering LLC
Specializing in Mitsubishi and Toyota, Turbocharged and N/A vehicles
330 E Southern Ave.
Suite #6
Mesa AZ85210
USA
TEL: 1-480-966-1408
FAX: 1-480-615-7902
Email: sales@ppeengineering.com
Website: www.ppeengineering.com
Contact: Paul Prentis


CALIFORNIA
Jackson Racing Supercharger Specialist on: Honda, Acura,
Focus, PT Cruiser and Miata
440 Rutherford Street
Goleta, CA 93117
TEL: 888-888-4079 (toll free)
TEL: 805-681-3410 (local)
FAX: 805-692-2523
E-mail: jacksonracing@mossmotors.com
Website: www.jacksonracing.com

Cooper Turbo Reasearch and Development
Turbo, Nitrous application
139 .N. Pacific Street Suite A1
San Marcos CA 92069
TEL: 760 591 0311
Email: MJCAUTO@aol.com
Contact: Chris Muzio

Discovery Automotive
4120 Studebaker Road
Placerville Ca 95667
TEL: 1 916 764 4308
E-mail: viper1010@softcom.net
Contact: Bill Knobloch


COLORADO
The Flyin' Miata
Supplier of Supercharging and
turbocharging kits for Miatas
331 South 13th Street
Grand Junction CO81501
USA
TEL: +1 970-242-3800
FAX: +1 970-242-9199
EMAIL: bill@flyinmiata.com
Website: www.flyinmiata.com
Contact: Bill Cardell


FLORIDA
Velocity Racing Inc.
Turbo-charged Motorcycle Specialist 2240 S.W. 70th Avenue #C-1
Davie. Florida 33317
Tel1: 866- 4 -SPEED
Tel2: 954 452 9918
Contact: Barry Henson / Ken Niebling
Email: velocityracing4@aol.com
Website: www.velocityracing.com


MARYLAND
Underdog Racing Development
Specialize in all Toyota Applications
TEL: 415 235 5061
FAX: 561 892 2879
Em: Tragerr@ urdusa.com
Website: www.urdusa.com
Contact: Brian Trager


NEW ENGLAND & NEW YORK AREA
Hass Autoworks
Specializing in European and Japanese forced induction applications.
251 Whiting Street
New Britain, CT 06051
TEL: 860-229-2399
FAX: 860-224-8853
EMAIL: jay@hassauto.com
Sales website: www.hassauto.com
Contact: Jason Hassinger


NEW JERSEY
Charged Performance LLC
Specialist on advanced water injection use in high compression NA and turbo applications. Specializing in Subaru WRX.
158 Wayne Street
Dixon Mills, Suite #411A
Jersey City, NJ 07302
USA
CELL: +1 201 232 2728
FAX: +1 201 581 0289
EMAIL: Sales@chargedperformance.com
Sales website: www.chargedperformance.com
Infomation website: www.turboice.net
Contact: Ed Haney


NORTH CAROLINA
3SX Performance
Mitsubishi GTO & Dodge Stealth
11525 Rocky River Church Rd
Charlotte, NC 28215
TEL: 704-545-6400
FAX: 704-545-8976
Em: Steve@3SXPerformance.com
Web: www.3SXPerformance.com
Contact: Steve


TEXAS
Alternative Performance Products
111 South Ridge Dr.
Cedar Creek, TX 78612
TEL: 512-296-5735
Email: slowrance@austin.rr.com
Contact: Shane Lowrance

teamstealth

The DIY kits are just for cheap detonation suppression. With an Aquamist kit, tuning for precise fuel/water values is better for say if youre going to bank on the fact that your WI will be there, for tuning purposes, or if youre just **** about your fuel/water levels, lol.
It does drop intake temperatures dramatically, however it doesnt raise HP like youd think because remember, the water is displacing fuel and air, so slightly LESS combustion happens. And yes it does also have a steam cleaning effect so it will help with carbon buildups.

zkeller

iTrader: (47)

Oh. I looked and did not see it in hi store. TY

FDNewbie

iTrader: (10)

teamstealth, thanks for that explanation

Jason

iTrader: (5)

I do carry the aquamist kits, but dont usually stock them. Aquamist will send them directly to the customer for me. There are alot of kits out now that are similar to the aquamist but cheaper.


Jason

Marshall

if you lean it out appropriately you will end up making more room for fuel/air because you're no longer using excess fuel as a coolant and water has much higher evaporative abilities than gas thus less is needed. You just don't see it often bc people (esp with rotarys) are afraid and end up keep their AFs the same and then add water on top of that. With a good setup you could get away with 12.5-13.0 AFRs. Any takers?

Michael Filippello

Well I have just lost a day of my life pouring through all the anti-det threads. I have seen everything from this is great, to this is *****, to this was not supposed to be released yet, to this is a big joke and you have all been punked, to I spread misinformation to muddy the waters, to lawsuites and more

There is so much hearsay and circumstantial evidence on this product that I wonder if any of it is even true. From what I understand is that KD is the original designer and the only one who really knows what the complete product consists of. Skip is not talking and neither are the people who have the product. It would be a shame if all it really is, and so far it appears to be this way, is two plugs and some retunning. Wouldn't just backing off the timing and increasing split under boost have the same result.

Mazda obviuosly put two plugs for a reason and it is well understood. If the best way to make more power safely was to eliminate plugs, then this wouldn't be new stuff. I think the fact that this is all it is, is the reason KD has kept such a tight lip about this as it will deffinately not receive good reviews by this forum. We are purest searching for the most power while trying to be safe. These two things are at opposite ends of the scale. The most power comes at the ragged edge. The trick is to try and increase the safety margine so that the power you were making is no longer at the ragged edge. Once you do this, it is always feasable to make more power again. When we bolt on all our mods, it is always the tuning that extracts the most out of our eqipment. Better equipment and design means better efficiency and a larger envelope for more power. To reduce the power making ability by removing plugs in an attempt to reduce detonation is paramount to just saying" hay, just take off the turbo, then you wont detonate"

In a quote somewhere someone said that when theory and practice do not coincide, go with practice. I agree with this however feel that when the two do not agree then something in the theory is flawed or misapplied in the actuall testing. Physics is physics and is absolute. If we do not get the results we are expecting, then we are missing a part of the equation. This has led me to theorize about this whole idea. If Roger Mandaville is correct, and I suspect he is as Jim points out, then the trailing plugs are the culprit. But what to do? They are there to provide many benifits albeit with one negative that shows up on boosted engines. By eliminating them you solve one problem but create the others that were solved by having them. It is a lesser of two evils game.

One person suggested having a switch controlled by pressure to turn the trailing plugs off at a certain boost level. This actually seems like a good idea assuming that the major benefit to having the trailing plugs is at lower rpms and loads. But if they are just as important at high rpms and loads then we are back to a lesser of two evils again. Someone else also pointed out that Mazda runs a colder plug in the trailing for just this reason. If this is true, then I can see room for improvement right here. Most people only change the leading plugs to 9's when upgraing. Assuming that we start with 7's and 9's, wouldn't it make sense to use 9's and 11's to keep the ratio the same. Everybody has always used the reasoning that the trailing don't do much. This may be true as far as overall power potential, but may not be the case in regards to ill affects at higher boost and HP due to preignition. If were are increasing the boost and runing closer to detonation, then both plugs need upgrading as they will both light off the chamber quicker.

Has anybody done any testing regarding running colder plugs than normally thought neccessary. It would also help to increase split under higher rpms and boost. Sure maybe less split might mean a couple HP difference but this is better than eliminating the plugs all together. As I said earlier, you have to give up a little to be safe. It also may mean the neccesity of an ignition amp on the trailing plugs in order to light the spark due to the cold heat range but this is a pure mechanical/electrical problem that can be solved. A true anti-det device is one that actively monitors combustion dynamics and actively adjust engine parameters to keep you safe while at the same time allowing you to make the most power. With out this type of device, it is up to the tuner to walk the fine line. Any attempt to make a safe engine by putting it in limp mode is a step in the wrong direction.

Also, just because one might see higher EGT's from running these plugs doesn't neccessarily mean that the engine is running higher combustion chamber temps. This is assuming no retuning but simply installing the plugs to see what happens. By not burning all the fuel, you probably have the same or cooler chamber temps. You will just get more gas lighting off in the exhaust and closer to the EGT sensor causing it to read high. After retuning, this is a different story. I am eager to see what Jasons finding are. I bet you could get the same results by just running conservative maps. To get the most power reliably however, we need to explore the outer limits of how the trailing plugs affect combustion, and maximize the positives while eliminating the negatives.

Flame suit on. You can't hurt my feelings. Even Jim doesn't bother me. I just think he is funny. He is always right though, if you don't believe me, just ask Jim

Mike

keep up the testing Jason. Maybe we will all learn something.

teamstealth

This is true...but im not willing to stake a $5000 bet of a 13B down on the fact that my WI would be bulletproof So thats why i'll be using mine as a safeguard rather than a power-producer!

Michael Filippello

Originally posted by fastcarfreak
PG-unlimited, skip was telling me about you. You sound like a pretty stand up guy. He told me that you helped him make the product better and not for gains on your behalf. I commend you for looking out for fellow rotary owners at your own expense of time. I dont remember if it was You that he was talking about, but are you the one that has a dyno in your garage? I think that is pretty bad *** if you do. Anyways thanks man.

Adam
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Yep, that is me.


this quote is from the guy with the bad dyno sheet who doesn't know why his dyno plot doesn't add up. Jim, did you catch this? Everytime I see something from him it reeks(spelling) of lack of knowledge. It reminds me of an old saying " it is better to keep quite and have everyone think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and prove them right"

Mike

SPOautos

So who wants to hear my idea of why I want to pull the trailing???

What about ditching the trailing so there are no split issues that way we can run pretty much any standalone on the planet. Then go with a standalone designed for maf and also accepts wb input for self tuning. Then get a modified Mustang maf that can support up to 700hp.

Anyone like that idea?
STEPHEN

Michael Filippello

ooops

teamstealth

Is there anything to gain by using a standalone that's not rotary proprietary?

Hyperite

Not really.

SPOautos

Any particular reason why?

PVerdieck

Sorry for the late response, Aquamist 2D. I got in on the groupbuy last year.

Hyperite

edit: Damn, I just typed up a huge response to PQUnlimited before realizing, that's not you

Stephen != Steven

Sure, I'll listen to your ideas Sorry for my crass response earlier.