Kid,
I don't know you, but the guys at Pineapple seem to think that you're a good kid. I just want to ask you why you think this motor should be warranted? The motor was running for 1000+ miles before the bearing went out, right? Well a bearing doesn't just fail, unless you starve it from oil! And, if the bearing was bad to begin with, ANY builder would know upon assembly! Let me ask you, did you ever think that after you changed your oil, you didn't compensate for those "extra long" oil cooler lines that you have?

All I know is that Rob bends over backwards for a lot of people and he's not getting rich doing it! There are a lot of Haters in the Forum so people reading various posts shouldn't be so quick to judge the accused untill they get the facts straight! IMO

Jim

 

i agree they shouldn't be so quick to judge, that sorta gets on my nerves because i did not post on here with the intention to bash- that gets all of us nowhere

did i compensate for the extra oil cooler capacity? well because i had custom lines this was a concern of mine, so after adding the typical amount for factory oil coolers, i idled the motor for a bit, shut down, checked levels, added as necessary, i did this until it held at full

typical stock oiling capacity with one oil cooler is what? 5.2 quarts....

R1 model is 5.7 quarts, so you would assume that since my oil cooler lines are longer, it'd take more than 5.7quarts, most rotaries burn about .5quarts between oil changes- this is typical

so that allows you .5quarts for a margin of error, so even if i did not compensate for the extra hose length, it would

so i would say that yes, i did have plenty of oil, also the oil is not "cooked" as typically happens when the oil system runs dry, i also have oil analysis that rob has failed to acknowledge that show a slow breakdown of the bearings as opposed to a sudden catastrophic failure

the bearing doesn't necessarily have to be bad upon engine reassembly, it can be weak and that will shorten it's life, other factors such as torque specs of the e-shaft, assembly order, etc can heavily impact the life of the bearing

let's address the more pertinent issues at hand, customer service: rob stated that his biggest issue with warranty'ing the motor was the potential for it to happen in the future if one of our ego's was getting in the way (i.e, that one of us was failing to acknowledge the potential for the fault to be on their side) I agree with this statement, he could overlook how large he ported the oiling system and since I am almost positive he does not have the amount of R&D that mazda does on this, it is very possible that a slight overport would cause a oiling system failure, or rather, as he suggests, i could be horrible at maintenance and have no clue what i'm doing, put the wrong oil in, etc...certainly a possiblity

so his biggest risk is that he shells out $3000 for a new motor, and it dies as well, then we're back to square one, only both parties are at a loss at this point

so why not just refund me my money, and let me go elsewhere...at least then i'd have my car back, he'd be free of any future possibile obligations? is that wrong?

at this point he obviously has the upper hand, he's got my money, and my motor, and it's at "his discretion" whether or not he wants to rebuild it

what a great warranty

 

The bottom line is that a customer bought an engine with a warranty, fullfilled all the requirements of the warranty (kept oil in the engine, changed it, did the break-in procedure, etc.), and the engine failed. Please tell me why Rob should *not* be responsible?

So you are saying that an engine builder cannot be responsible for a failed bearing? There is no possiblity that he re-used questionable or flawed parts, no possibility that it was reassembled or torqued it incorrectly?

 

I have heard plenty of good testimonials from people about Pineapple for quite a while. But IMO, the near-total stonewalling for months of customers who have made a purchase costing thousands of dollars (even after one said customer flew across the country to be there personally when the motor was taken apart, and to hopefully get face-to-face discussion in order to rectify the situation quickly) is extremely poor business practice. That factor alone is enough for me to look elsewhere when it comes time for my rebuild.

 

How long has this been going on? 2 or 3 weeks?

Time to break out the KY Jelly. It's gonna hurt kid.

This whole fiasco confirmed my suspicion about pineapple's warrantly: too good to be true. Five f*cking year for an all out motor?

Seriously, someone should get Pineapple to change the five year to 50 years warranty.

I am glad I went to Malloy. True, I don't have a mega street port, I don't have special oiling, I don't have cryoed rotors, five years warranty and all the other goodies, but hell my motor runs strong with 20 in. of Vaccum at 900 rpm. And if there's a problem, it's backed by a multinational corporation.

There's a lesson to be learned here kid. Too bad you had to be the one to pay for it.

 

i shipped out the motor ocotber 26th, i arrived in portland on november 5th, so that's four weeks plus they've had it

 

As an engine builder myself, I gotta say this situation is f&*^%d up. For years I have heard how good Rob's work is, and I believed it. I even sent him some work, from potential customers of mine who wanted higher end work then I care to provide, including a long warranty. I have had the utmost in respect for him until now. I used to tell people he was probably one of the 3 best builders in north america, along with don marvel and bruce turrentine. Bet I wouldn't tell anyone that now, because he is probably one of the worst businessmen.

Me and my engines have an excellent reputation on this forum, especialy to the 2gen guys who I do most of my work for. Ask anyone in that forum about me and they'll know who I am.

I've gotta say that if I built some engine and it failed really quickly for some reason, I would be STUPID not to take care of it quickly and quietly for that customer, rather than have it go against my reputation in public. If I charge $1500 for an engine build and the parts cost me $600, even if I have to do it twice, I am still ahead. Even if I have to do it 3 times, taking the loss is worth it to protect my reputation. A few hundred bucks worth of parts is nothing beside thousands of dollars in lost business from somethig like this.

I have built a couple hundred motors in the couple of years I have been offering them to the public, and have had just a handful of failures, some attributable to me, some to nothing discernable. Even the ones that I do not deem as my fault, were/will be covered by me and taken care of to the best of my ability. HEre are some examples:

-engine sold without warranty, shortblock exchange to a guy in atlanta. He installed it and said compression was low. I dont believe he had ever installed or dealt with a rebuild. I drove down to atlanta for a day and disassembled it with him, and we re-rebuilt it and partially installed it. I found nothing wrong when we did this.

-another guy bought an NA shortblock from me, and was unhappy with the paintjob on it (believe it or not). After much bitching, I sent him a partial refund (minus parts cost) and he went on his way.

-a local guy had me build a hyrbid engine for a GSLSE and install. IT ran great. He wanted the pineapple sleeves at the same time. I installed them per the (nonexistant) instructions on PR website at that time. 1500 miles later, the guy blows his engine, so i remove and tear it down. I find the PR sleeve came loose and caused another part to fall into the engine, destroying it all. PR denied any responsibility for not having installation instructions posted or given. I ate the cost of that engine rebuild myself.

EVERY builder has quality issues at one time or another, this is excuseable and normal, we are all just human, and we sometimes have subpar materials to work from, or unreasonable time restraints that cause us to rush work. The way you handle those issues defines your quality of business, IMO.

That said, i can see no excuse for this behavior.

 

In a nutshell...

 

Just recently talked to Rob on the phone. He basically told me that he beleives the vibration in my engine is due a wrong sized counterweight on my 9.5lb flywheel, which is apparently what was wrong with someone elses motor that is currently experiencing the same problem. In my case, this is extremely likely considering who sold me the flywheel and counterweight and installed it (won't do business with them EVER AGAIN!). I've decided to make the trek up to LA and have XS take a look at it and replace the counterweight with the correct part if need be and fix whatever else they see. I'll probably have an update in a week or so.

By the way, Pomanferrari, you said your engine gets 20psi vacuum at 900rpm? I get about 10psi at that idle...what exactly does that mean, why is it good to have good vacuum at idle, better compression I assume?

 

this seems to happen once a year on these forums....a company comes in with all sorts of claims (bi states turbos that were to kick *** on the bnrs lol....bnrs turbos with their upgraded seals "leaks"....pineapples warrantees....etc...). the forum gets all hyped up over whatever the new thing is. A few people that purchase stuff there get amped and continue to spread the propaganda until one day the sky falls on everyones heads.

new lesson. Don't believe the hype!

j

 

i agree, here comes christmas... i know my girl got me something for my car already, she's been hinting at it non stop

this really sucks

 

Your vacuum won't be as high, due to your large street port resulting in less vacuum at that engine speed due to the port timing (if your engine is still in the current state as your sig).

 

Sorry to hear about how this is going...I wondered about this shop a while back when they started selling "cryo" parts. Yes folks, snake oil...

 

Oh and this is from my post on the first page.

"3) Extended warranties are BS. If the engine was build correctly it will stay together. Notice the discalimer. They have to INSPECT the engine and will determine if it was a fault of theirs, guess what they will find ...? you overboosted, ran out of oil, overheated the engine etc. (Which is probably the case). It's an easy way to make money."

 

93blackfd,

Is Rob SURE that the front thrust plate on this motor didn't crack? The wear and burn marks on the end plate faces and the rotor sides seem to me to be from too much end play in the engine. This could be caused by either the use of the wrong spacer during assembly or by the front thrust plate cracking (letting the end play get higher especially when you load it by pushing on the pressure plate). I think that if it was purely a bearing failure, you would not see the burn marks on those areas I mentioned.

I COULD BE WRONG... so don't flame me.. I'm just throwing an idea out... I haven't lost many engines

These pics look JUST like a motor I lost because the front thrust plate cracked when I pushed in the clutch (guess it was weak after almost 150K miles and couldn't take the heavy duty pressure plate I just put in).

Brian

 

I don't know why you call it snake oil. Give us some basis for saying that.

From what I have found, cryoed parts are a fancy way of heat tempering and stress relieving a part.

This technique is about 10 years old and proven to work for parts under repeated thermal cyclings such as brake rotors, cutting blade, bearings.

Don't see why it would not work with rotary.

 

If you are such an outstanding rotary engine specialist with high integrity that you proclaim, it would be in your best interest to keep your negative comments about another engine builder to yourself.

It looks to me like all you are trying to do is gain more business by causing more negative publicity for Pineapple Racing.

If Rob at Pineapple Racing is treating his customers badly, they will go elsewhere. But would they consider an engine builder who is bad mouthing another shop? Speaking badly about another business is not a good way to build more business( Just doing the right thing is). It just makes you look bad.

 

This is true. But you got to remember. People are like sheeps. They just do what they are told. It don't matter if Pineapple screws Brian. People will still go to him. In another words, he doesn't give a flying **** what you people think. That's just how things are.

Sheeps we are.

I can't explain the logic. Look at all the people defending Rob. They don't give a **** unless it's their motor. Really, you don't give a **** do you?

Let's hear about some cases where Rob did warrentied a motor. Everone said no one's perfect. I agree. So there has to be someone who had one of his bad motors and got a new one. Let's hear those stories. Just for ***** and giggles.

Sheeps, it's just like everything else. Big company ***** you, but you still go back. I don't want to bash smokers but it's the same mentality. You know they're out to screw you, but you're still loyal. ******* sheeps.

 

He warrentied my motor, he rebuilt it twice for FREE all because of a defective boost guage and standard wastegate that we did not realize at the time. The first time, the front plate blew, the second time, the rear plate blew. Turns out I was boostin 20+psi on pump fuel. Never blew any seals!, just plates (Pineapple motors are crap, huh? I don't think so!). PLUS, he did the R&R on the second one for FREE! Now thats what i call CUSTOMER SERVICE!

Jim

 

Just FYI the plural of sheep is sheep. No "s" on the end. When you're berating people your position will hold more weight if it's not filled with repeated grammatical errors.

 

I feel stupid.

 

You live across the state line. Plus that AR-15 in the trunk is pretty persuasive.

 

wat? i no understand~

 

HAHAHA, I'm gonna go eat me some shrimps!

 

Because the parts that are cryeod don't wear out and cause engine failure...