Man, I hate to ask this question, but I've done plenty of searching. Doing an EBC install and I remove the wastegate actuator line, but there's no restrictor pill. The cars a 94 and the line is faded red, looks like it has been replaced in the past. I ran across a post about some pills being in the nipple, could this be true, or has the line probably been replaced, and the line with the pill accidentally tossed in the can?

Dean

 

the pill is in the line, not in the nipple. If you already had an ebc than it was replaced, as with my install with the blitz ebc i used no pills at all in my setup.

 

your setting everything up like in version two in this diagram, correct?

 

Version 1 is the proper method, not Version 2. Very few people have had successful setups with V2.

 

Some FD's have the restrictors in the nipples, thus no need for pills. My 94 FD had pills. If you have the non restrictor nipples, I suspect the person that replaced your line didn't know there was a pill there.

I suggest that you place a needle valve only in the wastegate line. Make sure the stock pill is in the prespool line. Placing a needle valve in the prespool line makes adjustment nearly impossible.

 

Rynberg,

I'm actually interested in the theory of why either version should be better or worse. I was thinking about version 2 due to Tim Benton mentioning that he saw the primaries on 99 spec dropping before transition.

Also Dale Clark mentioned he had been successful with version 2.

https://www.rx7club.com/forum/showth...hlight=version

 

I'm not fully sure and don't have the energy to think about it right now.... My comments were based on several people complaining about violent transition problems with Version 2 a few years back.

 

Version 2 makes little or no sense. Yes, it will prespool the secondary since as the primary reaches its max output below 4500rpm, some of the extra exhaust will be vented over the secondary. But there is nothing controlling the timing or magnitude of the precontrol.

As well, when you get above 4500 and your boost is at maximum, the controller tries to lower boost by opening the wastegate - but yet you're also opening the prespool and dumping extra exhaust back into the secondary. Since the precontrol door isn't very large I guess this isn't earth-shattering, but I have a feeling this turbo will be doing a lot more spinning than it needs to.

If you ask me, version 2 is simply stupid since you're giving up control of the prespool. It may work, it may not. I though the point of a boost controller setup was CONTROL!?!

Dave

 

OK, its obvious that I have no pill in my wastgate to actuator line and that someone could have replaced the line and unknowingly thrown the pill and old vac line away. I don't know whether or not I have restrictor nipples though. If I do, should I do something to it so it's not restricted? The pca line doesn't look to have ever been replaced, and there's no pill in it either. This leads me to beleive that I have restictor nipples.

 

You're fine. Just install the EBC and go.

EDIT -- what was your boost pattern before the EBC install?

 

Not sure about the exact pattern ( I know, wrong answer) but It usually would boost to 12psi with an intake, dp, rb cat back. I installed a pettit ecu and the boost shot to 15 psi, wot in 3rd.

 

If you were boosting to 15psi, it is most likely that you have restrictors in the nipples. Installing a MBC will not help if you have restricted nipples. You will need to drill the restrictors before installing the boost controller. After drilling, the MBC should work fine. I suggest that you do not drill the restrictors on the prespool line. You can always drill them later if you decide to.

 

When I look back in the nipples with a mirror I can see that they both are reduced to about half the size of their inside dimension. So drilling out the nipple would, in affect, be the same as removing the restrictor pill, if I had one. Sounds perfectly sensible. Rynberg, I would like to hear from you again before I drill. Thanks adam c.

 

You shouldn't need to drill out the nipples with an EBC.

 

Thanks, Rynberg. I like it when the letters are so large.

 

stupid question: do any of you guys have pics of the pills?

 

I can take some.

 

I am puzzled by people saying that the #2 method shouldn't work or is the wrong way.

I use the number 2 method with my apexi AVC-R I also have a right up on how to get a near perfect 10-10-10 boost pattern with the AVC-R on the #2 setup.

I have my prespool and wastegate lines "T"ed together and the two nipples "T"ed together. I have had nothing but 100% success with this method.

I set my duty cycles with my max boost settings and the boost pattern came out to a very nice 10-9.5-10 with no spike at all.

Transition is seamless and it pulls all the way to redline with no creep.

I also followed the setup procedures in the AVC-R Installation manual. It works like a charm, nothing but Success. Heres to the doubters.

I think the problem with it not working is in user error not mechanical error unless the individual does not know what they are doing or there is some real issues going on with their twin turbo setup.

Just my oppinion. But I would also like to know why exactly this si the wrong setup if the Apexi's installation manual says to set it up this way on the car? I thought Apexi was a reputable company?!

 

If it works and doesn't overspin the turbos, then it's fine. But I still don't understand why it would work well.

Since Apex'i took the time to carefully document the setup, that helps lend it some credibility. But me personally, I'd really try to find out what's going on with it.

Dave

 

What mods do you have and what boost levels are you running?

 

This is true! All I know is it works like the manual says. With my settings it works flawlesly. But that is a good thing to investigate! Why it does what it does, I really havn't a clue. I will try to figure out why and post what I find.

Oh and also dgeesaman. When I posted on how to tune an AVC-R awhile back I noticed a few things you said. You said to control the prespool and the wastegate and you can get a near 10-10-10 pattern. I took what you said. I tuned my AVC-R. It took me around 3 days to figure it out. Some how I dunno it can control the prespool and the wastegate while they are "T"ed into each other and going into the solenoid.

Here is my write up on it. The last post. https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generation-specific-1993-2002-16/guidance-help-tune-my-avc-r-please-526350/
Perhaps that can help out some. That is what I tuned my AVC-R to and it works Superb.


The only mods I'm running are the reliability mods Aluminum AST, 3" Downpipe, Intake, Air pump removed.

I run boost levels no higher than 10 psi.

Perhaps it doesn't function as well on more modified cars than my own. I don't know. But it works perfectly in my car. I am trying to keep my car as close to stock and reliable as I can. It is my DD until I get my new engine put into my '79.

---------------------------------------

The '79's original engine with 601,329 miles is showing its age. Low compression numbers, not alot of power anymore. But her internals were around carboned free from Excellent maintenance by my dad and then by me when it was handed down to me for school.

the '93's engine shows compression numbers in the mid to high 90's. It has new turbos but the lines were never replaced which will soon be done with new check valves and solenoids.

---------------------------------------
It works well only with slight mods done to the car but mostly stock? I recommend the AVC-R 100%. The directions show to put the precontrol and the wastegate lines together as in step 2.
Perhaps it was ment for the stock car.

 

That's why. Stick a full exhaust and larger IC in there....it won't work.

 

I plan on getting a full exhaust and larger IC. perhaps a greddy 2 row for the twins.

We will see... lol as I have no data or feedback to give with that setup just the basic stock one
wow this is how I feel. I am the smilie with the poke stick...haha



Well if someone has this setup with more mods than thou please post up..lol
Other than that I will have to give it to you guys for modified cars beyond the reliability modification point.

 

For future reference, what would you expect the symptoms of the #2 setup with those mods to be? I'm wondering if the RPM/gear-based adjustability of the AVCR might mask it...



Hey, anybody want a random tidbit of information? Yes? I thought so. Ok, here goes:

My AVCR came with a "new-style" sensor that even the guys at APEXi America weren't aware existed (except for one guy, apparently). I personally test-benched it; the sensor was WAY the hell off. I applied ~12psi and it registed an equivalent of ~2psi. The guys at APEXi were nice enough to listen to my story and give me a new-style sensor that had been a return item.

That new sensor worked fine until ~10psi at which the sensor's case sprang a leak and gave me an atmospheric reading! A boost controller reading a falsely low pressure is a good way to blow up an engine. Upon closer inspection, the returned sensor case was physically warped from being next to a heat source. I guess that's why it was a return item. It was free, so I can't complain about this one.

Long story short(er), I swapped the sensor internals from the used-sensor into the 'good' case from my unused-but-electrically-f*cked-up-sensor. Damn thing works fine now. It makes me wonder if these high-boost AVCR horror stories I've read in the past are due to melting sensor cases...