Hi,

have been searching the forum but didnt actually find what I was looking for.

I want to build a 500 RWHP FD. At this moment the engine is out cause I have blown it.

This is my list what I want on it, can somebody tell me if this is ok, or if I missed something what I'm missing.

Ported engine, half bridge or bridgeport.
3mm seals
Koyo rad
Greddy T78
Greddy 3 row intercooler
850 primaries
1600 secundaries
FPR
braided hoses
apexi PFC
downpipe midpipe + catback
different fuel pump
vented hood
Fan MOD
Evans coolant
Greddy Profec B
Turbotimer
all necesarry gauges

SOmething I missed for reliability?

Also with the apex ecu, can I safely install it and let it run over the initial setup period? Do I need special maps for it? Or does somebody have base maps which can be used for getting the car to the DYNO.

Also which AF ratio's do I need.

Is it smart to put all on when the engine is on, cause of running it in properly, also with the Apex ecu.

Regards,

Rogier

 

if you don't already have an r1 or r2 a 2nd or upgraded oil cooler will help reliability, and I strongly suggest a datalogit to go with the PFC for tuning. Otherwise you have a fairly good list. Water injection is another nice cheap way to add another safety measure if reliability is your main concern. You'll also want get rid of all the unneccessary vaccuum hoses. Also a streetport will be more reliable than the bridgeport and 500hp is attainable with streetport and T78, bridgeport is not a necessity.

There are base maps in the PFC section i think. I'm sure somone could hook you up with one, but it'll be a lot easier to implement with a datalogit, that way you can just put it in an excel file rather than loading all the numbers by hand with the commander. Good A/F's to shoot for would around 11:1 to 11.5:1. Anything over 12 is too lean. Anything below 10.5:1 is too rich. To be on the safe side you may want to aim for closer to 11:1, because some people have said that moving from the dyno to the street tends to lean the car out a little bit because of the colder air.

You might as well go ahead and do everything at once, but its gonna be a little hard to troubleshoot if something doesn't work, but the guys on here can help if and when a problem arises.

Hope this helped.

-Rob

 

OK

thanks for the fast reply. About the bridgeport, why is that not so reliable as a streetport?

What does the waterinjection do for me?

Well my intention is to do everything myself, except for the porting itself. That I want somebody else to do, but fitment of the rotors etc, can I think be done by myself.

 

Water injection injects a usually 50/50 water/methanol stream into the intake track, lowering intake temperatures and raising the octane of the combustion materials. This prevents detonation and good stuff like that.

 

yy4u, all euro FDs came fully loaded - including the dual oil coolers. Just FYI.

Skim41 - you lucky bastards up there North have rotary tuners. All the other rx7 owners from Europe are left with preprogrammed ECUu (including myself).

Good luck!

P.S. : Are you getting your engine rebuilt or are you getting new one ? From where ? At what price ?

Thanks!

 

500 rwhp and reliable don't mix.

 

Buy a different car!!!

 

WIDE BAND and Datalogit for sure, without it the probablitiy of blowing another one is high. Read and read some more as there is SO much to do when shooting for 500 RWHP. Fuel is the most important thing to tune on the PFC so the TechEdge wide band with a Data logit will put You way closer to Your goals. Again dont skimp on the fuel spend the money for a race pump and the proper lines. There is a ton of info here on fuel setups.

Also I dont think 500 RWHP and being reliable are out of the question. I think if done properly the 500 HP car is just as reliable as a stocker with all the crap still on the car. I dont know how to tune and learned myself and still have not popped My street port/T-72 combo and run decent boost 18-21 PSI.

 

As far as porting goes, the bigger the ports the less reliable and less milage you get out of the engine. The Bridgeport is HUGE, they call it a bridgeport because the intake port is made so big you have to leave a little section called the "bridge" so the corner seal doesnt fly into the engine. I'd say just stay with the street port and you'll be fine. As far as you doing all the work by yourself... have you worked on a rotary before?? Its not as easy as it seams, theres a lot of little things that can go wrong. But this project seems pretty big... i remeber when i had a list like you, that didnt last long. Now all you have to do is make sure u have some money left over for food! But best of luck on ur car...

 

Let me tell you what you really need to do. There is NO way your going to tune this car to make a reliable 500rwhp, the reason isnt cause it cant be dont. Its cause you dont have enough experience, anyone that has to ask questions doest have the experience to pull this off the first time. What you REALLY need to do is find a good tuner with experience making reliable power in the range your after. Then talk to your tuner about what ecu they would like to work with. Buy, the ecu (and anything else they might suggest) then pay them to tune your car. Then enjoy the car. If you want suggestions on tuners I'd make a seperate thread on that. But I'd suggest Steve Kan, Chris Anderson, and Demetrious. They are all very good tuners, especially for street mosters.

If there is NO way you can get a tuner....then I wish you all the luck in the world but I'd budget an extra motor or 2 just in case.

STEPHEN

 

Until you get 80k+ miles on that motor, I don't see how you can even write that with a straight face. Seriously.

There's a post in the single turbo forum where I commented on this. I think only one person in the whole thread had more than 10k miles on a single turbo install. So let's all drop the whole "a single-turbo car is more reliable" crap until someone can actually prove it....

Skim41: Listen to Stephen. He gave you the best answer here....

 

To Me if I get 10 K I am more then happy out of an engine. I did not buy this car to be super reliable I bought it to go fast. I got a good base map and started to tune the AFR from rich and ran My T-72/water injection to 22 PSI and 18 PSI all Summer. I am happy it is still together and if I get another year out of it GREAT. I dont think it is rocket science and that is what this board is for. With help from Guys here it makes it so much easier. I highly doubt there are any SUPER TUNERS in the Netherlands and He is going to be in the same position I was in, eihter tune it Yourself or no one is.

I think 500 RWHP is a bit much but every one likes to dream when they start there project. All the best of luck to You and if I could get My car running decent with no help but this board, You should have no problem.

Steve

 

But in your previous post, you clearly stated that you think a 500 rwhp car can be as reliable as a stock car. So which is it? I'm not trying to bust your *****, but when you state something like that, you should expect some fallout...

 

Cruiser,

In the Netherlands there are no rotary tuners, I'm thinking of doing it myself except for the port and/or send it to Japan and let them do it read "re-amemiya"

I havent got a Euro spec FD, I have a EFINI R1 from 93, I imported it from Japan. Therefore my opinion is to get only Japanese goodies on it. I also run my own small import shop for parts so getting the parts would be no problem.

I also think that when getting 500 HP, 300 Comes from the Turbo therefore I think the car would most likely break under boost driving. And I dont think you would drive 10000 KM / 6000 Miles under full boost?!

What I do think is that the car will most likely wear out quicker than when stock. BUt when tuned right with the right a/f ratios I think you could drive a good time with the car.

I know how the bridgeport looks, but didnt know that that would shafe the years of my engine.

What would destroy my engine in this matter to search for 500 RWHP is it the heat build up?

 

Damn...you must be easy to please, and have a lot of time and money on your hands. And/or easy access to the proper tools and machinery. Put it this way, my FD is not a daily driver, hasn't been taken on any long trips, etc. But it still averages about 10K miles a year. I'd kinda want more mileage than that out of a motor before I'd have to start tearing into it.

 

If you go with an engine do a Pineapple large street port. That combined with a T-78, large fuel system and race gas will get you to your goal.
I know the timing the Power FC will need for that motor, so you would just need to tune the fuel map.

Email me jbaughman@ameritech.net

 

I think 500 RWHP and 10K out of My car is reliable. I dont have money to burn and I dont drive My car like a complete maniac every time I take it out. If I was to boost the **** out of the car every time I went to the conveince store then yes it might not last that long. Listen to Jason and go with the T-78 because there are allot of maps out there to get You started and the maps are what saves Your engine.

I put about 1500 miles on My car this year and that was enough for Me and I am happy that it stayed together. If You are using the car as a daily driver then NO it might not be thought as a reliable. Plus the next engine I pop I will do Myself and the cost will be less.

I dont know near as much as most Guys here and I dont let on that I do.I am just tired of new Guys making simple posts about what they would like to do with Thier car and everyone gives them a one line reply with sarcastic answer.

 

But thats cause its not a simple post. He's wanting us to tell him in one post the best way to build and tune a 500rwhp street car. The people that have done that themselves sucessfully have learned how to do it over a period of years and more than likely took a lot of trial and error. There are only a SMALL handfull of people making 500+rwhp in a street car on the forum. Out of those people most are either good friends with a "super tuner" or they have thier own shop with an in house dyno like Jason.

The best way to tell him how to do this in one post is to tell him to spend months and months researching and talking to people OR/AND copy someone elses setup EXACTLY and use thier maps (if they let him), even then it might not work and he will still end up tuning to some degree. Other than that its going to be hire a tuner.

You just cant product a reliable 500rwhp car without know every single aspect of these cars, which includes tuning.

STEPHEN

 

BTW....water injection does not raise octane...it lowers combustion temps.....

 

You are right Stephen and unless You have some help the 500 HP without knowing anything is very difficult. I have had 2 years to get My car to run and had many problems. I have been lucky not to blow My engine with all the things that went wrong. I did not know anything about modifying a RX-7 before I bought mine 2 years ago but when it overheated on Me I thought it was a fun project to start. The car was made for People like Me who love different, or techi cars. I was very lucky that I found a map to start from and worked with it without blowing it.( I tribute that to the Data logit and wide band) I have tried 2 single turbo setups and will try another in the spring. I enjoy taking it apart as much as I like driving it, so it is a fun Winter project also. I wish I had more time to work on and drive the car but I dont.

I also think that this map crap is stupid. If You like helping People then why not help them with their maps. By the time He is done "building the car" He will have months to read all He wants to then He will need tuning maps. I have many that He can have that willing People have gave Me. It is sort of simple really. Read and learn then get a map close to Your setup,retard the timing, add LOTS of fuel and go to work with the data logit. The days of the Super tuners is limited with new software and fairly reasonable electronics. Jason told this Guy to go with a Pinapple engine and a T-78 and would give Him His maps for a base. I think that is a GREAT start to 500 RWHP and with help from Guys like Jason it can be done on one engine not two or three.

 

One thing that I truly regret is that I paid for all these parts over the past 2 years when the Canadian Loonie was so shitty and now it coming back stronger then ever and I dont need many more parts.

 

Upgrade the rad.

 

I have a Fuidyne?

 

You will need a 3 bar map sensor because your stock one wont read boost higher than 17 psi. You can use a GM 3 bar map/wiring harness. You will NEED Datalogit software from RX7.com for the PFC to tune all the maps. The commander will not show you all the maps you will need to alter. Also a Stock Mitsu T-78 may be big enough. To be sure you have enough CFM's I suggest either a GT42 Garrett turbo or a Apexi T51R KIA SPL.

 

get a supra