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How did you test to find that the vac line was switched, and which was it switched with?
I'm assume you're getting the same boost as before this issue now, and also secondary boost?
No man, YOU ROCK!! Those colored diagrams and test procedures you posted really guided me. Absolute gold to anyone else that will find this thread.
What was switched were the red and green lines in the diagram you sent me on the LIM. I tested it because when I routed them correctly, I applied vacuum via the other side of the LIM and voila, CCA moved as intended. Well now it’s just praying my “new” solenoid works as intended when I drive the car.
will drive the car today. Didn’t yesterday because I was whupped. Spent all day out in the sun fiddling with it and it got me exhausted.
my actuator still stays pulled out. Guess I celebrated too early oh well haha. So now we know the actuator actuates if I apply vacuum via the LIM hose that runs from the rats nest.
this means the issue must be with the solenoid right? That “new” solenoid must be the issue. What I’ll do is remove the whole UIM again, attach the vacuum pump to the front nipple of the solenoid, turn the car on and see if I can get the CCA to actuate. This should verify if the solenoid works properly right? I guess the real way is to bench test it but I’m not very inclined in removing it until it’s my last option. If the solenoid is bad, hopefully Atkins can replace it for me even though I threw away the box it came in (ouch)
my actuator still stays pulled out. Guess I celebrated too early oh well haha. So now we know the actuator actuates if I apply vacuum via the LIM hose that runs from the rats nest.
this means the issue must be with the solenoid right? That “new” solenoid must be the issue. What I’ll do is remove the whole UIM again, attach the vacuum pump to the front nipple of the solenoid, turn the car on and see if I can get the CCA to actuate. This should verify if the solenoid works properly right? I guess the real way is to bench test it but I’m not very inclined in removing it until it’s my last option. If the solenoid is bad, hopefully Atkins can replace it for me even though I threw away the box it came in (ouch)
Do the in car test first. If ignition on + vacuum on doesn't get the CCA moving, it could be the solenoid or the vacuum hoses might still be wrong. I'd then pop off the hose coming out of the top of the solenoid and apply vacuum there to make sure your routing from the solenoid to the CCA is all correct. If the output is working, then I'd bench test the solenoid.
Do the in car test first. If ignition on + vacuum on doesn't get the CCA moving, it could be the solenoid or the vacuum hoses might still be wrong. I'd then pop off the hose coming out of the top of the solenoid and apply vacuum there to make sure your routing from the solenoid to the CCA is all correct. If the output is working, then I'd bench test the solenoid.
ok so I made sure the routing is correct by applying vacuum to the hose that goes from the top of the solenoid and it actuates the CCA. I then tried applying vacuum to the front of the solenoid and nothing. Swapped out the solenoid for a different one and nothing. Then one time it actually worked and actuated the CCA with the solenoid. What the hell. Could it be a wiring issue? I have a brand new wiring harness in from wiring specialties so I’d be confused as hell if it was that.
Ok so it has to be the wiring. I connected my solenoids to the double throttle control connector and guess what? It actuates and B to A actually opens up when voltage is applied and closes up when voltage is not applied.
Man I’m so confused. This means there is no power coming from either the ecu (apexi pfc) or the wiring harness charge control connector. Or maybe wiring specialties switched up the double throttle and charge control connectors? Doubt that and would hate to put together the whole car just for it to then never switch over to the secondary turbo
Continuity is fine. I’m going to swap the ecu for the stock one and see if I can get it to turn on. Other than that, guys I have no idea what to do here
ok so I made sure the routing is correct by applying vacuum to the hose that goes from the top of the solenoid and it actuates the CCA. I then tried applying vacuum to the front of the solenoid and nothing.
Edit: Do me a favor and sanity check this for me - this test was done with the solenoid connected to the right connector, and with the ignition ON (motor OFF), correct?
Not doubting you but I just want to make sure.
Originally Posted by Xion
Continuity is fine. I’m going to swap the ecu for the stock one and see if I can get it to turn on. Other than that, guys I have no idea what to do here
Hang in there
Verifying that your vacuum routing and your solenoid valve are fine I think is big progress.
You'd have to contact Wiring Specialties to help you with wiring stuff, where I have never diagnosed anything twin turbo control related before I truly have never done electronic diagnosis.
Tossing in the stock ECU and key-on testing if the solenoid switches is a good idea.
This is how the FSM asks to diagnose the charge control check engine light error.
A multimeter connected from the CC connector to ground should read near 0V with key off and battery voltage (12V) with key on. (Highlighted in step 2)
Off the top of my head, the engine harness grounds near the rear engine hook, either onto the hook itself or to the UIM. There's a grounded connector onto the firewall, and then another ground in the footwell near the ECU. Might give those a bit of a clean while you're up in there.
Edit: Do me a favor and sanity check this for me - this test was done with the solenoid connected to the right connector, and with the ignition ON (motor OFF), correct?
Not doubting you but I just want to make sure.
Hang in there
Verifying that your vacuum routing and your solenoid valve are fine I think is big progress.
You'd have to contact Wiring Specialties to help you with wiring stuff, where I have never diagnosed anything twin turbo control related before I truly have never done electronic diagnosis.
Tossing in the stock ECU and key-on testing if the solenoid switches is a good idea.
This is how the FSM asks to diagnose the charge control check engine light error.
A multimeter connected from the CC connector to ground should read near 0V with key off and battery voltage (12V) with key on. (Highlighted in step 2)
Off the top of my head, the engine harness grounds near the rear engine hook, either onto the hook itself or to the UIM. There's a grounded connector onto the firewall, and then another ground in the footwell near the ECU. Might give those a bit of a clean while you're up in there.
You're close! Hang in there.
yup, I made sure the ignition was on and motor was off. The charge control connector doesn’t apply power to solenoid but the double throttle control connector does (when ignition is on and motor is off).
im going to check for power next before I swap ecu and then I will swap ecu.
Also this happened twice now but I’ve hit the alternator with a wrench and sparks flew. Maybe I blew a Charge control related fuse? Or maybe fried the ECU? Car still ran otherwise after hitting the alternator by accident like this. Just wondering if it’s related
That's an odd one. I would call your harness maker to help troubleshoot.
You might also just assemble everything back together, with the double throttle connector and the charge control connector swapped and start the car. (Idle, def don't go into secondary boost)
Since you know the double throttle connector is getting the voltage that the CC should be getting, you can just plug the CC solenoid into the double throttle to verify the rest of the CC system works.
If the CCA arm pulls in with the connectors swapped, then for sure your vacuum hose routing, vacuum chamber, solenoid, _and_ actuator are ok.
EDIT: I posted before I didn't know the value of the double throttle connector at IGN On ENG Off.
I think both CC connector and Doub Throttle connector want 12V with IGN On ENG Off.
That's an odd one. I would call your harness maker to help troubleshoot.
You might also just assemble everything back together, with the double throttle connector and the charge control connector swapped and start the car.
If the CCA arm pulls in with the connectors swapped, you know for certain you either have an ECU or harness issue.
If the CCA arm pushes back out when the coolant is warmed up, then you definitely connected the double throttle connector to the CC solenoid and they didn't mix your connectors up. Double throttle turns off after coolant temp is warm.
The CC Solenoid and connector should be Battery Voltage during IGN On (Motor Off).
I'm not sure about the Double Throttle Control though.
In one table, it should IGN On (Motor Off) value as OFF (which I assume is <1V).
The wiring diagram, however, has IGN ON, Coolant T <80deg as ON (I assume batt voltage)
Service Highlights
Wiring Diagram
im really tempted to just swap connectors and put it together but I don’t think thats the issue. I found out that the two bolts that hold the ecu in (and the ground) were very loose. Like handtight which is crazy. Anyways I tightened those up and tried again and still the same 7 volts to that connector. Going to try swapping ecu now. The only other engine ecu grounds are the one that goes to the side of the UIM from the firewall side and the other one goes on top of the motor under/near the rats nest right?
the double throttle connector, according to the FSM you sent, being off on ign on is weird. I get 12v from it when ign is on. But maybe because the coolant is not up to temp
im really tempted to just swap connectors and put it together but I don’t think thats the issue. I found out that the two bolts that hold the ecu in (and the ground) were very loose. Like handtight which is crazy. Anyways I tightened those up and tried again and still the same 7 volts to that connector. Going to try swapping ecu now. The only other engine ecu grounds are the one that goes to the side of the UIM from the firewall side and the other one goes on top of the motor under/near the rats nest right?
the double throttle connector, according to the FSM you sent, being off on ign on is weird. I get 12v from it when ign is on. But maybe because the coolant is not up to temp
Sorry about that. I editted my post. Both double throttle and charge control get 12V IGN On, Eng Off.
From what I remember of pulling my engine, the only two grounds are near the ECU at the body and then on the back of the UIM near the engine hook. There's a grounding strap from the engine hook to the body that can get kinda nasty, too.
Image on the right shows the correct location. On mine, the GRND was on the hook itself, which is weird but it seems to work.
Guess what? Issue was the ecu. Swapped ecu back to stock and I get 12v at charge control connector and the solenoid works. Guess I need a new apexi ecu now for cheap lol. This one’s toast
Guess what? Issue was the ecu. Swapped ecu back to stock and I get 12v at charge control connector and the solenoid works. Guess I need a new apexi ecu now for cheap lol. This one’s toast
Damn.
But I mean, congrats on finding the issue!
My car is running on an 18 year old PFC. I wonder how much time I have left.
I have heard Michael Gagne on the facebook groups repairs Power FCs. Maybe send him a message.
My car is running on an 18 year old PFC. I wonder how much time I have left.
I have heard Michael Gagne on the facebook groups repairs Power FCs. Maybe send him a message.
oh you’re right he does. I actually bought mine used from a dude a year or two ago but my FD ran like **** so I guess I’ll never know if it was fried to begin with or if hitting the alternator 2x fried it. Either way im happy!! At least I can put the car back together now, plop in a new ecu when I get one, and know it’ll work (hopefully). Thanks for helping me systematically find this issue
oh you’re right he does. I actually bought mine used from a dude a year or two ago but my FD ran like **** so I guess I’ll never know if it was fried to begin with or if hitting the alternator 2x fried it. Either way im happy!! At least I can put the car back together now, plop in a new ecu when I get one, and know it’ll work (hopefully). Thanks for helping me systematically find this issue
No problem! And good work on all the diagnosis, lol. Between the two of us, there might be a single whole decent FD technician.
If you were getting primary boost before but not anymore, I'd say it probably used to be fine and this is a new issue.
No problem! And good work on all the diagnosis, lol. Between the two of us, there might be a single whole decent FD technician.
If you were getting primary boost before but not anymore, I'd say it probably used to be fine and this is a new issue.
I can’t blame people. This car is extremely complicated and it feels like one thing going wrong can cause a bunch of issues (such as vacuum). I’d definitely say you’re a worlds lot better than me. I’m a new guy to this but I don’t think I would’ve done this without your amazing manuals you’ve posted.
What’s weird is how did it get primary boost before when the vacuum line going to the CCA was routed wrong? That’s so weird to me. I’ve never touched those until a day or two ago when I fixed that so I’m not sure how I ever got primary boost. Car must have been so messed up it ended up getting primary boost somehow lol
09-15-24, 01:03 AM
