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As title states, I have 0 boost on primary turbo but at around 4500rpm I get full boost on my secondary.
weirdly it used to work the opposite (not sure when exactly) and I did a full vacuum hose job so I don’t think anything is wrong there.
So I know the charge control valve is what is responsible for closing and opening air passage from just primary and then to secondary. When the charge control actuator is pushed out, that means air is being directed to the secondary correct? At idle it’s supposed to be pushed in correct? Mine is always pushed out. That’s what I’m assuming is causing the problem.
but what are the other moving parts I should check that could make my charge control actuator constantly pushed out?
I have mice in the area and I just recently repaired some hoses that they chewed up when I had the UIM off. They don’t seem to chew anything with the UIM on.
edit:
i have done the KOKO test (engine off just key on key off) and the charge control actuator rod stays pushed out. Perhaps the solenoid is bad? In this case should I try swapping my double throttle control solenoid (brand new) for my charge control solenoid?
my turbo control solenoid is brand new too
edit 2:
just bought a new charge control solenoid (1480-13-240A)
decided to just buy a new one rather than take the one off from the double throttle control and mess with that. Will be here in a few days or next Monday. Hopefully this fixes it because I can’t think of anything else
I used to find a significant number of the CCAs used to have leaky diaphragms, probably because of the cooking element directly below. Have you done the FSM test?
Long time since messing with twins, even with the flap open, I wouldn't expect zero boost unless the bypass or charge relief were conspiring too.
I used to find a significant number of the CCAs used to have leaky diaphragms, probably because of the cooking element directly below. Have you done the FSM test?
Long time since messing with twins, even with the flap open, I wouldn't expect zero boost unless the bypass or charge relief were conspiring too.
my apologizes. It’s not entirely zero boost. Don’t remember off the top of my head but probably 0.1 kpa max in 0-4000rpm range before second turbo comes on with full boost.
never knew about the leaky diaphragm but I’ve heard the CCAs rarely fail. My primary used to work before (secondary never used to work) I did my whole hose job (properly and with lots of new parts all around)
the new charge solenoid will be here Monday. Going to put it in and see if my issue is fixed. But really I don’t know if that will fix the CCA from being pushed out all the time even when the car is off
So I installed the new charge control solenoid and no difference. I still don’t build boost until I hit secondary turbo (4500 rpm range) and the charge control actuator still sticks out on idle. I’m going to try to change the vacuum line that goes from the LIM to the charge control actuator and see if that helps but I doubt anything’s wrong with that guy. Still doesn’t hurt to try. Anyone got some ideas as to where to look if this doesn’t work? I checked vacuum lines under the UIM when I went to change the solenoid and all seem fine
My twins have always worked so I don't have any experience troubleshooting twin operation - this is just armchair mechanic advice.
If you have a vacuum pump or a vacuum gauge, you could start tee-ing into lines from the UIM to the Vacuum Chamber to the CC Solenoid to the LIM to the CCA. See if you're losing vacuum at one of those junctions.
You might consider pulling your vacuum chamber and seeing if it's still holding vacuum. Although I've never seen a or heard of a vacuum or pressure chamber fail, I believe that is the vacuum source for pulling the CCA plunger in.
You might check that the check valves from the front side of the UIM, near the TB, are all installed in the correct direction. These are the four vacuum lines from the front bottom side of the UIM. If you switched the direction of the check valve, it could be pressurizing your vacuum chamber instead of vacuuming, and forcing your CCA open.
You might check that the vacuum hoses going into the interior side of the LIM are routed to the correct hoses going out of the LIM towards the turbo. For example, if you swapped the hoses for the CCA, your primary would be pressurizing your CCA diaphragm, keeping the valve open.
Edit: You can use a vacuum pump connected to a hose to the CCA diaphragm to test if the CCA is still moving or is jammed open.
You can bypass the vacuum chamber and solenoid and force the CCA rod in by installing the vacuum hose and check valve onto the diaphragm and using a vacuum pump to apply vacuum. Uninstall the vacuum pump and the check valve should act like a plug, forcing the CCA rod in all the time.
If you then go for a drive under 4500 RPM and your primary boost returns, you've isolated the problem to the vacuum side of your CCA hose routing. (Again, armchair mechanic speculation)
If you're not certain that it's the CCA, I think a jammed open turbo control actuator (on the exhaust manifold) could be splitting your exhaust to both turbos even under low RPM, starving your primary?
Again, just guesses. I hope you figure out the problem!
My twins have always worked so I don't have any experience troubleshooting twin operation - this is just armchair mechanic advice.
If you have a vacuum pump or a vacuum gauge, you could start tee-ing into lines from the UIM to the Vacuum Chamber to the CC Solenoid to the LIM to the CCA. See if you're losing vacuum at one of those junctions.
You might consider pulling your vacuum chamber and seeing if it's still holding vacuum. Although I've never seen a or heard of a vacuum or pressure chamber fail, I believe that is the vacuum source for pulling the CCA plunger in.
You might check that the check valves from the front side of the UIM, near the TB, are all installed in the correct direction. These are the four vacuum lines from the front bottom side of the UIM. If you switched the direction of the check valve, it could be pressurizing your vacuum chamber instead of vacuuming, and forcing your CCA open.
You might check that the vacuum hoses going into the interior side of the LIM are routed to the correct hoses going out of the LIM towards the turbo. For example, if you swapped the hoses for the CCA, your primary would be pressurizing your CCA diaphragm, keeping the valve open.
Edit: You can use a vacuum pump connected to a hose to the CCA diaphragm to test if the CCA is still moving or is jammed open.
You can bypass the vacuum chamber and solenoid and force the CCA rod in by installing the vacuum hose and check valve onto the diaphragm and using a vacuum pump to apply vacuum. Uninstall the vacuum pump and the check valve should act like a plug, forcing the CCA rod in all the time.
If you then go for a drive under 4500 RPM and your primary boost returns, you've isolated the problem to the vacuum side of your CCA hose routing. (Again, armchair mechanic speculation)
If you're not certain that it's the CCA, I think a jammed open turbo control actuator (on the exhaust manifold) could be splitting your exhaust to both turbos even under low RPM, starving your primary?
Again, just guesses. I hope you figure out the problem!
hey man this is great info. Thank you so much for spending your time. I’m pretty adamant that it’s my CCA because it’s always sticking out even when the car is idling.
I checked all my check valves (which are new vitron ones alongside the new hose job I did) and they are all facing the correct direction. I guess I could check my vacuum tank for pressure next but it used to work before so I’d be surprised if it failed now.
I can push the CCA in by hand but I guess I could try using a vacuum pump to make it work. The pump would verify if my CCA is working correct?
im also confident I routed my hoses correctly when I did the vacuum line job. However, I feel like one of them might have popped. I’m not sure if I recall correctly but I feel as if the primary did work until one day it didn’t (recently) which I assume could be due to one of the lines popping? If so which one could it be? I mean it shouldn’t have even popped because I’m running under stock 10psi.
i mention this because I took my UIM off once and some rodents came in there and chewed some hoses. I replaced the chewed ones and noticed that the very most top hose that goes to the LIM on the inside looked popped and not chewed. I replaced that too but no difference. I also checked for popped hoses when I had my UIM off yesterday but didn’t seem to fine any damage. Then again, it’s hard to verify.
could a larger source (coupler from crossover pipe etc) be the cause of the CCA always being stuck open?
hey man this is great info. Thank you so much for spending your time. I’m pretty adamant that it’s my CCA because it’s always sticking out even when the car is idling.
I checked all my check valves (which are new vitron ones alongside the new hose job I did) and they are all facing the correct direction.
No problem! You might rule out those new check valves by popping out the hose into the UIM and blowing into it. You shouldn't be able to blow into it. That'll make sure the new check valve isn't faulty.
Originally Posted by Xion
I guess I could check my vacuum tank for pressure next but it used to work before so I’d be surprised if it failed now.
To be honest, I'd be surprised, too. You can keep the chamber in the car and just pop off the hose going from the vacuum chamber to the pipe from the pipe end and test it there.
Originally Posted by Xion
I can push the CCA in by hand but I guess I could try using a vacuum pump to make it work. The pump would verify if my CCA is working correct?
According to the FSM, yes. That'd make sure the actuator arm is moving. I guess the valve itself could be letting air out, too.
Originally Posted by Xion
im also confident I routed my hoses correctly when I did the vacuum line job. However, I feel like one of them might have popped. I’m not sure if I recall correctly but I feel as if the primary did work until one day it didn’t (recently) which I assume could be due to one of the lines popping? If so which one could it be? I mean it shouldn’t have even popped because I’m running under stock 10psi.
It's hard to tell from the diagrams, but if I recall, the vacuum chamber side of the hose routing goes to multiple solenoids*. It connects to the Turbo Control valve, furthest from the little cylinder on the solenoid. It connects to the Charge Relief valve, on the end with only one outlet. I guess a leak anywhere from the vacuum chamber to any of these solenoids would cause all of these solenoids to lose vacuum. Check FSM page F-7, follow the vacuum hoses from the vacuum chamber out to the solenoids.
You can probably use a vacuum pump to test that whole set of hoses and pipes to see if it holds vacuum.
Originally Posted by Xion
i mention this because I took my UIM off once and some rodents came in there and chewed some hoses. I replaced the chewed ones and noticed that the very most top hose that goes to the LIM on the inside looked popped and not chewed. I replaced that too but no difference. I also checked for popped hoses when I had my UIM off yesterday but didn’t seem to fine any damage. Then again, it’s hard to verify.
could a larger source (coupler from crossover pipe etc) be the cause of the CCA always being stuck open?
Here's my understanding of how the CCA operates. (And where I hope a more senior member can check and make sure I'm not feeding you misinformation)
You've got the CCA Solenoid, CCA Solenoid output hose, and CCA diaphragm routed together in red. This is your output, the input of which is applied to move the CCA arm in or out.
The CCA Solenoid has two inputs - The first input is in Blue - this is for vacuum, involving the UIM, check valve, Vacuum Chamber, and all related piping and hosing. The second input is in Green - for pressure, involving the secondary turbo directly into the charge control solenoid.
When you start your car and your idle pulls a vacuum, what I believe should be happening is that the CCA solenoid is connecting the blue input for vacuum to the red output to the diaphragm. The vacuum input applied to the output sucks the CCA rod arm in, the shutter valve is closed, the secondary turbo is disconnected from the intake tract.
When you are in primary boost mode and in crossover boost mode (3500-4500RPM, secondary turbo pre-spool), the CCA solenoid should still be pulling from the blue input for vacuum and applying that to the red output to the diaphragm.
When you are in high RPM high load secondary boost mode, CCA solenoid switches and connects green input for pressure to the red output to the diaphragm. The pressure in the diaphragm cancels the opposing pressure in the other chamber of the diaphragm. A spring inside the diaphragm pushes the CCA rod arm outwards, the shutter valve is opened, the secondary turbo is connected to the intake tract.
Because both the secondary turbo and primary turbo are generating boost, all the charge air goes into the Y-pipe.
If your CCA rod is not pulling in on startup and idle, and your car is generating vacuum, then your secondary turbo, which is not producing boost, is still connected to the rest of the intake tract. What could be happening is that your primary boost is going backwards into your secondary turbo and back out to your air cleaner? Maybe?
And so then the culprit could be either the CCA solenoid, which you've already replaced.
The CCA solenoid could be not switching correctly, and applying green pressure input instead of blue vacuum, forcing the CCA rod out and the valve open.
The CCA solenoid could be switching correctly but have its inputs reversed - thinking it's applying vacuum when it's actually applying pressure.
The CCA solenoid could be faulty and not sealing, allowing vacuum and pressure to interact and negating your vacuum input.
The culprit, I think, could also be the routing on the blue input for vacuum - if there is no vacuum supply for the solenoid, when it switches to allow vacuum to the output, there is no vacuum power for the actuator to retract the CCA arm.
If the check valve is faulty or routed wrong, the vacuum chamber does not have vacuum and the solenoid has no vacuum power.
If the vacuum chamber is leaking vacuum, the solenoid has no vacuum power.
If any hose going to any other solenoid vacuum input popped off, it could cause the whole vacuum side of the system to lose vacuum, and the solenoid has no vacuum power.
I don't know that any hoses like this are in the way, but I've definitely smashed vacuum hoses under the UIM on install. If there is a kink or obstruction or a vacuum hose is blocked, it would keep vacuum from being applied to the solenoid.
If the red output hose circuit is routed incorrectly, your CCA solenoid could be switching correctly and have the right inputs but be sending it to the wrong places. Your CCA diaphragm might not be seeing the input your CCA solenoid is recieving.
It could also be that your primary turbo is damaged and not producing boost - the diagram above has a purple input for boost pressure that assists the CCA.
No problem! You might rule out those new check valves by popping out the hose into the UIM and blowing into it. You shouldn't be able to blow into it. That'll make sure the new check valve isn't faulty.
To be honest, I'd be surprised, too. You can keep the chamber in the car and just pop off the hose going from the vacuum chamber to the pipe from the pipe end and test it there.
According to the FSM, yes. That'd make sure the actuator arm is moving. I guess the valve itself could be letting air out, too.
It's hard to tell from the diagrams, but if I recall, the vacuum chamber side of the hose routing goes to multiple solenoids*. It connects to the Turbo Control valve, furthest from the little cylinder on the solenoid. It connects to the Charge Relief valve, on the end with only one outlet. I guess a leak anywhere from the vacuum chamber to any of these solenoids would cause all of these solenoids to lose vacuum. Check FSM page F-7, follow the vacuum hoses from the vacuum chamber out to the solenoids.
You can probably use a vacuum pump to test that whole set of hoses and pipes to see if it holds vacuum.
Here's my understanding of how the CCA operates. (And where I hope a more senior member can check and make sure I'm not feeding you misinformation)
You've got the CCA Solenoid, CCA Solenoid output hose, and CCA diaphragm routed together in red. This is your output, the input of which is applied to move the CCA arm in or out.
The CCA Solenoid has two inputs - The first input is in Blue - this is for vacuum, involving the UIM, check valve, Vacuum Chamber, and all related piping and hosing. The second input is in Green - for pressure, involving the secondary turbo directly into the charge control solenoid.
When you start your car and your idle pulls a vacuum, what I believe should be happening is that the CCA solenoid is connecting the blue input for vacuum to the red output to the diaphragm. The vacuum input applied to the output sucks the CCA rod arm in, the shutter valve is closed, the secondary turbo is disconnected from the intake tract.
When you are in primary boost mode and in crossover boost mode (3500-4500RPM, secondary turbo pre-spool), the CCA solenoid should still be pulling from the blue input for vacuum and applying that to the red output to the diaphragm.
When you are in high RPM high load secondary boost mode, CCA solenoid switches and connects green input for pressure to the red output to the diaphragm. The pressure in the diaphragm cancels the opposing pressure in the other chamber of the diaphragm. A spring inside the diaphragm pushes the CCA rod arm outwards, the shutter valve is opened, the secondary turbo is connected to the intake tract.
Because both the secondary turbo and primary turbo are generating boost, all the charge air goes into the Y-pipe.
If your CCA rod is not pulling in on startup and idle, and your car is generating vacuum, then your secondary turbo, which is not producing boost, is still connected to the rest of the intake tract. What could be happening is that your primary boost is going backwards into your secondary turbo and back out to your air cleaner? Maybe?
And so then the culprit could be either the CCA solenoid, which you've already replaced.
The CCA solenoid could be not switching correctly, and applying green pressure input instead of blue vacuum, forcing the CCA rod out and the valve open.
The CCA solenoid could be switching correctly but have its inputs reversed - thinking it's applying vacuum when it's actually applying pressure.
The CCA solenoid could be faulty and not sealing, allowing vacuum and pressure to interact and negating your vacuum input.
The culprit, I think, could also be the routing on the blue input for vacuum - if there is no vacuum supply for the solenoid, when it switches to allow vacuum to the output, there is no vacuum power for the actuator to retract the CCA arm.
If the check valve is faulty or routed wrong, the vacuum chamber does not have vacuum and the solenoid has no vacuum power.
If the vacuum chamber is leaking vacuum, the solenoid has no vacuum power.
If any hose going to any other solenoid vacuum input popped off, it could cause the whole vacuum side of the system to lose vacuum, and the solenoid has no vacuum power.
I don't know that any hoses like this are in the way, but I've definitely smashed vacuum hoses under the UIM on install. If there is a kink or obstruction or a vacuum hose is blocked, it would keep vacuum from being applied to the solenoid.
If the red output hose circuit is routed incorrectly, your CCA solenoid could be switching correctly and have the right inputs but be sending it to the wrong places. Your CCA diaphragm might not be seeing the input your CCA solenoid is recieving.
It could also be that your primary turbo is damaged and not producing boost - the diagram above has a purple input for boost pressure that assists the CCA.
this is the best information I’ve ever found, and probably all I need to slowly go through everything you colored and make sure it’s working correctly.
one thing you said is that if a different solenoids vacuum input is popped off, it could effect this. I have a question here. So I’m sure you are aware that some of the solenoids have a round cap on them on the backside where that nipple is not being used. I’ve bought some new solenoids that didn’t come with this cap and was wondering if I still had to cap them off because some of them I just left open. Maybe that’s the issue to all of this? The nipple I’m talking about is the silver nipple on the back of the solenoids. I would have to cross reference with which ones don’t have the back used and cap the ones I have left open from the new solenoids I bought
this is the best information I’ve ever found, and probably all I need to slowly go through everything you colored and make sure it’s working correctly.
one thing you said is that if a different solenoids vacuum input is popped off, it could effect this. I have a question here. So I’m sure you are aware that some of the solenoids have a round cap on them on the backside where that nipple is not being used. I’ve bought some new solenoids that didn’t come with this cap and was wondering if I still had to cap them off because some of them I just left open. Maybe that’s the issue to all of this? The nipple I’m talking about is the silver nipple on the back of the solenoids. I would have to cross reference with which ones don’t have the back used and cap the ones I have left open from the new solenoids I bought
I would need the specific solenoid but I don't believe that would cause an issue.
It sounds like you're talking about a rack solenoid. it's got one silver port at the back, the "vent" port, it's got a black port on the other side for pressure/vacuum source, and it's got the output black port out the top.
The caps that I think you're talking about are actually are filters, I think. That silver port can remain vented to atmosphere because the solenoid only ever connects either the vent to output or source to output. Leaving the silver port open "uncapped" shouldn't cause problems because the silver port can never be connected to the vacuum port, the solenoid is not capable of it.
The CCA solenoid in particular is special because it has a source on both the silver and black nipple, but others are not connected to a vacuum hose by design.
I would need the specific solenoid but I don't believe that would cause an issue.
It sounds like you're talking about a rack solenoid. it's got one silver port at the back, the "vent" port, it's got a black port on the other side for pressure/vacuum source, and it's got the output black port out the top.
The caps that I think you're talking about are actually are filters, I think. That silver port can remain vented to atmosphere because the solenoid only ever connects either the vent to output or source to output. Leaving the silver port open "uncapped" shouldn't cause problems because the silver port can never be connected to the vacuum port, the solenoid is not capable of it.
The CCA solenoid in particular is special because it has a source on both the silver and black nipple, but others are not connected to a vacuum hose by design.
ok sounds good, then I did everything correctly. Today, if it’s not windy enough to blow my CF hood off, I’ll begin by checking all those colored vacuum lines and their associated systems. Also not sure if I mentioned it but all my solenoids are now brand new from Atkins besides the EGR one. I think this time I’ll very, very carefully inspect the colored lines for any rips or tears in their hoses. Will probably pop off the UIM again and check those lines carefully
When you say they "popped" do you mean they popped off the connection or did they look like they burst? Either way, if you have had vacuum lines bursting or popping off the connections, you may have used a low quality or wrong size of vacuum hose and you will be chasing these gremlins forever. I have seen people use low quality silicone host that has a very thin wall. When they use theis hose, under heat and pressure they will expand like a balloon and sometimes burst. When they do this, they can go back to normal shape and you may not be able to find where they split unless you run a smoke or pressure test on them. If they are popping off the connection, then you may want to address that with zip ties or using the proper size hose. It would be very hard to visually tell if a vacuum host popped off one of the lower ports on the solenoids on the lower part of the rack.
When you say they "popped" do you mean they popped off the connection or did they look like they burst? Either way, if you have had vacuum lines bursting or popping off the connections, you may have used a low quality or wrong size of vacuum hose and you will be chasing these gremlins forever. I have seen people use low quality silicone host that has a very thin wall. When they use theis hose, under heat and pressure they will expand like a balloon and sometimes burst. When they do this, they can go back to normal shape and you may not be able to find where they split unless you run a smoke or pressure test on them. If they are popping off the connection, then you may want to address that with zip ties or using the proper size hose. It would be very hard to visually tell if a vacuum host popped off one of the lower ports on the solenoids on the lower part of the rack.
they burst. Well only one hose I saw did which was the very top one of the four straight hoses that go from the rats nest to the side of the LIM and then out of the LIM on the other side.
the hose quality is the best I think. I ordered from boostcontroller 3.5mm hose for my rats nest hoses. I also have zip tied the ends of the majority of my hoses but they never pop off. Only that one had burst
they burst. Well only one hose I saw did which was the very top one of the four straight hoses that go from the rats nest to the side of the LIM and then out of the LIM on the other side.
the hose quality is the best I think. I ordered from boostcontroller 3.5mm hose for my rats nest hoses. I also have zip tied the ends of the majority of my hoses but they never pop off. Only that one had burst
If it burst, I would definitely question the quality of hoses used. It is very possible that you have another ruptured hose that is causing your issues if the hose quality is the case. If the hose that burst is different than what you used on the rats nest then you will probably be safe because the boostcontroller dot com stuff seems to be decent from what I've recently read. Unless that was a fluke and an isolated quality issue with that small section of the hose, I would inspect the rest because I have silicone hose on one of my cars that has been on there for 20 years and recently seen 30PSI without bursting, all the silicone hose jobs I've done on FDs I've never seen one burst either. I have seen them burst with thinner walled silicone hose when people install it not knowing better unfortunately which is why I was asking. This was a major issue in the early 2000's when people wanted to add color to their engine bay and would buy the silicone hose kit from autozone which had a super thin wall, it would collapse during vacuum and burst under boost. I can't tell you how many of those hoses I've replaced over the years.
If it burst, I would definitely question the quality of hoses used. It is very possible that you have another ruptured hose that is causing your issues if the hose quality is the case. If the hose that burst is different than what you used on the rats nest then you will probably be safe because the boostcontroller dot com stuff seems to be decent from what I've recently read. Unless that was a fluke and an isolated quality issue with that small section of the hose, I would inspect the rest because I have silicone hose on one of my cars that has been on there for 20 years and recently seen 30PSI without bursting, all the silicone hose jobs I've done on FDs I've never seen one burst either. I have seen them burst with thinner walled silicone hose when people install it not knowing better unfortunately which is why I was asking. This was a major issue in the early 2000's when people wanted to add color to their engine bay and would buy the silicone hose kit from autozone which had a super thin wall, it would collapse during vacuum and burst under boost. I can't tell you how many of those hoses I've replaced over the years.
yeah the boost controller stuff has some really thick walls. I’m not 1000% certain it was a burst. As I mentioned before, rodents chewed some hoses when I had the UIM off for a few days. Although the hose looked burst to me, it could have been a rodent for all I know. That’s good to know your silicone hose could handle 30psi, probably means it was a rodent that bit through mine.
Update for everyone. I just got done putting new vacuum hoses on the side of the CCA. So I put new vacuum hoses from where it goes from the LIM to the CCA and other places around it. I think there were 3-4 hoses I changed. None looked bad or ripped though but we’re obviously caked onto the nipples due to heat wear. I don’t think any of those hoses contributed to the issue since they didn’t seem to have tears so the hunt might still be on. Maybe before I tear off the UIM to inspect the rest of the colored hoses on that lovely diagram that other rotary head posted, I’ll take the car for a spin and see if it builds boost in primary. Doesn’t hurt to try
Also wanted to make a note. This is probably normal but when I removed the hose that goes to the CRV from the LIM, I heard a lot of air come out. The cars been totally off for 24hours now
So I turned the car on, let it idle, and observed the CCA rod. It still didn’t pull in. After this, I disconnected the vacuum chamber vacuum hose and blew into it with my mouth and nothing seemed to leak. It held pressure. Then, I disconnected the hose above it that has the check valve to the UIM and blew into that from the UIM side and no air would pass through. I blew in from the other side and air did pass through. This means the check valve (new) isn’t faulty. This also concludes making sure all the lines highlighted in blue in the above diagram are now fine and ok.
this leaves me with only two more hoses I need to remove and check based on the colored diagram posted above. These two lines are the green and red ones that go from the rats nest to the LIM. The ones on the charge control solenoid are fine since I just put them on brand new when the solenoid came earlier this week.
im worried that if those two hoses are fine, and I’ve verified and checked all other hoses, I don’t know what could be causing the CCA rod to still not pull in. At that point I guess I could try to apply vacuum pressure to the CCA to see if that forces it in.
So I turned the car on, let it idle, and observed the CCA rod. It still didn’t pull in. After this, I disconnected the vacuum chamber vacuum hose and blew into it with my mouth and nothing seemed to leak. It held pressure. Then, I disconnected the hose above it that has the check valve to the UIM and blew into that from the UIM side and no air would pass through. I blew in from the other side and air did pass through. This means the check valve (new) isn’t faulty. This also concludes making sure all the lines highlighted in blue in the above diagram are now fine and ok.
this leaves me with only two more hoses I need to remove and check based on the colored diagram posted above. These two lines are the green and red ones that go from the rats nest to the LIM. The ones on the charge control solenoid are fine since I just put them on brand new when the solenoid came earlier this week.
im worried that if those two hoses are fine, and I’ve verified and checked all other hoses, I don’t know what could be causing the CCA rod to still not pull in. At that point I guess I could try to apply vacuum pressure to the CCA to see if that forces it in.
I think you need to get a vacuum pump on the actuator first and start ruling out systems. Your issue lies in the vacuum side of the CCA hose circuit. Nothing in green would cause this problem.
Do this test first on the CCA. Pop the hose off the LIM and put your vacuum pump there to eliminate the hose as an issue.
If it fails, the issue is the CCA, you need to replace it.
If it passes, the CCA is working. Everything in Red is OK. It should be moving when it receives vacuum from the solenoid. Move on to testing the solenoid.
Remove the CCA solenoid,
Perform this test
(See post #5 on this thread for reference)
If the test fails, the solenoid was not providing vacuum when it should've been (this is where I still think your issue lies)
You need to replace the solenoid with a working one.
If the test passes, install the solenoid back in the car.
Perform the following test
Install your vacuum pump here. in the car, turn the ignition key on (but do not turn the motor on).
Use your vacuum pump to apply the same amount of vacuum as you did to test the CCA. With the ignition on (motor not on) and vacuum applied to the solenoid, the solenoid should be directing your applied vacuum to the CCA, retracting the CCA arm.
If the CCA arm doesn't move with key on, vacuum applied, your solenoid is faulty.
If the CCA arm does move with the key on, vacuum applied, then your issue lies between your UIM and your solenoid, you're losing vacuum somewhere.
Move on to testing the vacuum side of your rats nest routing.
Install your vacuum pump here. If you've gotten this far down diagnosis, your vacuum pump should be gradually leaking vacuum out somewhere in the blue.
Pull a vacuum and find which junction the vacuum is leaking out of.
Edit: If you're not losing vacuum during this test, then you have a vacuum obstruction somewhere between the UIM and your solenoid. It would be good to install a vacuum gauge between the charge control solenoid and the vacuum hose going to it, to test for kinks. Your vacuum hoses might be fine but a hose going to it might be kinked or obstructed, halting flow of vacuum to the solenoid.
I think you need to get a vacuum pump on the actuator first and start ruling out systems. Your issue lies in the vacuum side of the CCA hose circuit. Nothing in green would cause this problem.
Do this test first on the CCA. Pop the hose off the LIM and put your vacuum pump there to eliminate the hose as an issue.
If it fails, the issue is the CCA, you need to replace it.
If it passes, the CCA is working. Everything in Red is OK. It should be moving when it receives vacuum from the solenoid. Move on to testing the solenoid.
Remove the CCA solenoid,
Perform this test
(See post #5 on this thread for reference)
If the test fails, the solenoid was not providing vacuum when it should've been (this is where I still think your issue lies)
You need to replace the solenoid with a working one.
If the test passes, install the solenoid back in the car.
Perform the following test
Install your vacuum pump here. in the car, turn the ignition key on (but do not turn the motor on).
Use your vacuum pump to apply the same amount of vacuum as you did to test the CCA. With the ignition on (motor not on) and vacuum applied to the solenoid, the solenoid should be directing your applied vacuum to the CCA, retracting the CCA arm.
If the CCA arm doesn't move with key on, vacuum applied, your solenoid is faulty.
If the CCA arm does move with the key on, vacuum applied, then your issue lies between your UIM and your solenoid, you're losing vacuum somewhere.
Move on to testing the vacuum side of your rats nest routing.
Install your vacuum pump here. If you've gotten this far down diagnosis, your vacuum pump should be gradually leaking vacuum out somewhere in the blue.
Pull a vacuum and find which junction the vacuum is leaking out of.
Edit: If you're not losing vacuum during this test, then you have a vacuum obstruction somewhere between the LIM and your solenoid. It would be good to install a vacuum gauge between the charge control solenoid and the vacuum hose going to it, to test for kinks. Your vacuum hoses might be fine but a hose going to it might be kinked or obstructed, halting flow of vacuum to the solenoid.
this write up is amazing. This is actual gold for anyone else with this issue. I will go get a vacuum pump and preform each step step by step.
I would be so sad and surprised if my solenoid is bad considering I put a brand new one from Atkins in this past Monday. Also, I feel like the old one might have also still been functional because I remember before I had my injectors serviced to have the secondaries open up, the primary turbo was working with this solenoid. This wasn’t too long ago. Maybe a month ago.
regardless, I’ll perform the tests as mentioned and report back when done. Thank you so much
this write up is amazing. This is actual gold for anyone else with this issue. I will go get a vacuum pump and preform each step step by step.
I would be so sad and surprised if my solenoid is bad considering I put a brand new one from Atkins in this past Monday. Also, I feel like the old one might have also still been functional because I remember before I had my injectors serviced to have the secondaries open up, the primary turbo was working with this solenoid. This wasn’t too long ago. Maybe a month ago.
regardless, I’ll perform the tests as mentioned and report back when done. Thank you so much
Of course, and I appreciate it!
I forgot where but I read that there's a pretty high failure rate of "new" solenoids, either getting stuck or not sealing internally. Some solenoids that only take one input can handle a leaky solenoid, but the CCA isn't one of those since it's managing both a pressure and a vacuum input. That one needs to be perfect.
I forgot where but I read that there's a pretty high failure rate of "new" solenoids, either getting stuck or not sealing internally. Some solenoids that only take one input can handle a leaky solenoid, but the CCA isn't one of those since it's managing both a pressure and a vacuum input. That one needs to be perfect.
ok so I took the UIM off today and tested the one red line that runs from the rats nest to the LIM. The blue arrow is where I connected the vacuum pump and it cannot produce vacuum whatsoever. I tried with a different hose and still no vacuum. I think this is the issue but what’s wrong? I doubt the metal nipple could be bad. Also if I connect the vacuum pump straight to the CCA it actuates it so the red line that goes from the LIM to the CCA is ok too.
Is it not producing vacuum here because the UIM is off? The other lines above it do
the lines that go from the LIM to the CCA were routed wrong 🤦♂️ 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️.
see I didn’t even doubt if they were routed correctly because the vacuum lines looked so ancient with the clamps on I thought it was like that from factory until I double checked. This should work now. Thank you so much for the help everyone and I hope this helps others!!!!
Can you share a photo of your test setup? The lower intake manifold acts as a pass-through there, so if you connect your vacuum pump to that bottom port on the lower intake manifold then it will be trying to pull vacuum through the bottom port on the other side of the lower intake manifold. The bottom port on the other side should connect to the vacuum line that goes to the charge control actuator, so if all of that is connected you should be seeing the charge control actuator move when you apply vacuum.
Edit, glad to see you found and fixed the problem. Here's hoping for a nice 10-8-10psi boost pattern in your future.
Can you share a photo of your test setup? The lower intake manifold acts as a pass-through there, so if you connect your vacuum pump to that bottom port on the lower intake manifold then it will be trying to pull vacuum through the bottom port on the other side of the lower intake manifold. The bottom port on the other side should connect to the vacuum line that goes to the charge control actuator, so if all of that is connected you should be seeing the charge control actuator move when you apply vacuum.
Edit, glad to see you found and fixed the problem. Here's hoping for a nice 10-8-10psi boost pattern in your future.
thank you so much man. I’m running manual boost controllers so probably going to detune it a bit to give the motor extra life. Like 6-7psi. This will be the first time my car will run with both turbos functional in my ownership! I’m very excited and this was a fun puzzle . I’m glad this thread helped and I’m really happy it’ll serve as a guide for others.
lol can’t believe the previous owner or maybe a tech routed those lines wrong. Drove me crazy and I need to trust stuff I haven’t personally worked on less.
...lol can’t believe the previous owner or maybe a tech routed those lines wrong. Drove me crazy and I need to trust stuff I haven’t personally worked on less.
One of my favorite sayings is never assume anything because too often assumptions come back to bite you in the butt.
09-03-24, 09:17 PM
. I’m glad this thread helped and I’m really happy it’ll serve as a guide for others.