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It's a 93 touring, VR on tan, definitely a used driver, showing her age and in need of lots of TLC to bring it back to its former glory.
Some stats from the BaT ad:
- It's all stock and relatively unmolested, even still has the battery cover. The only "mod" appears to be the sound system. The Bose tubes were deleted - which I assume means the buyer will need to find the trunk area trim bits & carpet from a base/R1 FD to make it look right again.
- Lots of road rash & some dings/scrapes on the body, but not major accidents or damage shown in Carfax, one owner car. No underside pictures yet, so I can't assess rust but it lived its life in CA.
- A Mazda reman engine went in at around 92K miles, chassis now has ~138K miles on it. Ad has Mazda dealer receipts to document this. Sounds like this reman engine currently runs OK & recently passed CA emissions, but is leaking oil like a sieve. Ad mentions oil leaks from a rear main seal and "timing cover" (LMAO, I'm sure they meant front cover/front e-shaft seal). Also mentions it's seeping/leaking brake fluid, which I would assume is the ABS pump failing.
- Leather seats need to be recovered; pictures suck, so it's hard to say on the interior plastics, but I'd assume they are as shabby looking as the seats.
It'll be interesting to hear what Fritz thinks....I'm no expert on sale values....but, to me it needs a lot of work, and what you listed probably is just the beginning list! I would guess, start an offer at 12k....don't go past 15k....there are still nice FD's out there, it's cheaper to find one well sorted out already. Fixing them up can eat your cash up quick.
A friend 4 months ago in Arcadia Florida called me and said a dealer had a '93 R1 33k miles....asking 27k for it....I told my friend, offer 24k.....bargain ....but get it! He got it for 25k.....a clean Florida car, he got a good deal...I wish I could have bought it!
Sounds like a good deal in the current market.
Originally Posted by Greg Sabol
Fritz...thanks for your insight, interested reading! I've had a 93 base for 24 years, stolen/recovery, which gave it a rebuild title here in Florida. I bought the car because I knew it's history, with 32k miles, never hit, just missing some parts. It's up to 78k miles now. I've kept it basically stock, I did all the R1 mods with Mazda parts, kept the base seats, had them red stitched to match the red stitched console/shift boot/E brake. 3M Carbon wrapped all the interior plastics. Flawless expensive red re-paint. Up grades are the Koyo radiator, the Pettit AST, silicone hoses, stainless brake lines, 18" wheels, Eibach springs, RB dual tip exhaust/down pipe, FC Commander. I've restored a lot of cars, this one I kept because it's just about as perfect as it gets, meticulous maintenance, runs perfect. You mentioned the 94 model, what did Mazda change from the 93's, I know the interior plastics were changed, what else was improved, and what do you think my '93 would sell for? 6 months ago I bought a 2007 Honda S2000 for a DD. The S2000 is another incredible car, and easy to work on!
If as described 15k (fast sale) to 20k (slow sale) even with the bad title. 3m carbon wrap could hurt the value or be a tough sell. Would recommend removing and refinishing the 93 consoles if looking for top value. I owned an S2k for a few months back (had so much fun driving it I put 5k miles on it in 2 or 3 months) in 2002 or so. Great cars to DD and super fun.
Originally Posted by Greg Sabol
It'll be interesting to hear what Fritz thinks....I'm no expert on sale values....but, to me it needs a lot of work, and what you listed probably is just the beginning list! I would guess, start an offer at 12k....don't go past 15k....there are still nice FD's out there, it's cheaper to find one well sorted out already. Fixing them up can eat your cash up quick.
Rough thing to say but this is the perfect example of what I'd call a parts car. Or it's not worth rebuilding and really is what this thread is all about. 2 or 3 years ago or whenever I started this thread the FD values were just starting to rise and crazy people were listing cars like this for 25k and I was like, WOW, that's a 12k FD max. Folks saw nice low mileage cars selling for 25k and immediately felt like they could ask the same price for their beat up/polished junkers....LOL It will likely sell for 13 or 14k and then you'll have to spend 5k minimum on paint, 1k on weather stripping, 2k on interior pieces, 5k minimum on the engine work it needs (that's if the engine is good). The engine will need a front cover seal, rear main seal, likely oil pan seal, engine harness, injectors, solenoids, vac hoses, etc...etc..... Trans likely needs to be refreshed 2k, exhaust 1k, ABS pump leaking (good luck finding a good one), etc...etc... Bottomline: you'll spend 15k just getting this car off the ground only to spend more money on the susp (literally everything is likely worn out), cluster will die, fuel pump, fuel lines, electrical switches and actuators, fuel pump, and on and on and on.
If you are OK spending 30k plus the original cost go for it but you'll still have an FD that will likely never be worth more than 20k. You could spend 30 or 40 (low mileage FD that's been well maintained) out of the gate to own a car you can enjoy and will gain in value. Easy decision. This is not a car to buy and fix up unless that's what you enjoy spending your time and money on and then you'll have an absolute blast because this car is extremely rewarding. BUT, as mentioned if you want a deal this isn't a DEAL even if you bought this car for 10k (current bid).
Originally Posted by Pete_89T2
Ok FD valuation experts, what do you think this one should sell for?
It's a 93 touring, VR on tan, definitely a used driver, showing her age and in need of lots of TLC to bring it back to its former glory.
Some stats from the BaT ad:
- It's all stock and relatively unmolested, even still has the battery cover. The only "mod" appears to be the sound system. The Bose tubes were deleted - which I assume means the buyer will need to find the trunk area trim bits & carpet from a base/R1 FD to make it look right again.
- Lots of road rash & some dings/scrapes on the body, but not major accidents or damage shown in Carfax, one owner car. No underside pictures yet, so I can't assess rust but it lived its life in CA.
- A Mazda reman engine went in at around 92K miles, chassis now has ~138K miles on it. Ad has Mazda dealer receipts to document this. Sounds like this reman engine currently runs OK & recently passed CA emissions, but is leaking oil like a sieve. Ad mentions oil leaks from a rear main seal and "timing cover" (LMAO, I'm sure they meant front cover/front e-shaft seal). Also mentions it's seeping/leaking brake fluid, which I would assume is the ABS pump failing.
- Leather seats need to be recovered; pictures suck, so it's hard to say on the interior plastics, but I'd assume they are as shabby looking as the seats.
Agree with your assessment or it's a POS and not worth buying. I'll say 14k max at the BAT auction.
Forgot to answer the 94/95 differences but the biggest thing is the interior which with each passing year becomes more important as the 93 interior is so much more fragile. Do a search because there are likely some threads that address this.
The interior changes include but not limited to: interior consoles, insulation, dash (better glove box and safety for passenger w/airbag), auto down window switch, stronger/reinforced center trans cover console, passenger seat has a pocket etc.. OH and don't forget no tan panels...............
Three other things that I like are the stronger wheels, addition of the rear sub frame supports and better baffles in the gas tank. If you drive a 93 and 94 back to back you will notice the difference in just a few miles of driving. Again the 94 build quality is so much better you can't help but notice.
PS: Some say the paint is better on the 94 cars as mazda had so many issues with the 93s that they improved the painting process. That change may have also occurred mid way through the 93 year.
The BaT parade continues.... with another '93 Touring (Red over Tan). A driver with a re-man and some issues. Should be interesting to see what this one fetches.
I'll go with $25k (w/ compression test) or $20k (without).
It's a 93 touring, VR on tan, definitely a used driver, showing her age and in need of lots of TLC to bring it back to its former glory.
Some stats from the BaT ad:
- It's all stock and relatively unmolested, even still has the battery cover. The only "mod" appears to be the sound system. The Bose tubes were deleted - which I assume means the buyer will need to find the trunk area trim bits & carpet from a base/R1 FD to make it look right again.
- Lots of road rash & some dings/scrapes on the body, but not major accidents or damage shown in Carfax, one owner car. No underside pictures yet, so I can't assess rust but it lived its life in CA.
- A Mazda reman engine went in at around 92K miles, chassis now has ~138K miles on it. Ad has Mazda dealer receipts to document this. Sounds like this reman engine currently runs OK & recently passed CA emissions, but is leaking oil like a sieve. Ad mentions oil leaks from a rear main seal and "timing cover" (LMAO, I'm sure they meant front cover/front e-shaft seal). Also mentions it's seeping/leaking brake fluid, which I would assume is the ABS pump failing.
- Leather seats need to be recovered; pictures suck, so it's hard to say on the interior plastics, but I'd assume they are as shabby looking as the seats.
Without reading the rest of this thread, I'm gonna say 14k would be alright...VR on tan touring that pretty much needs an entire repaint. Would be a nice track car.
I wonder what mine's worth now? 93 R1 VR, original body and paint, ohlins coilovers, 76k miles original engine with great compression, BNR S3 twins, adaptronic, interior condition a true 8/10 (pretty much why I bought it). I still have the stock hood and bumper. Of course, clean title all Southern California car with clean carfax and service records going back several years. I got a great deal on this car but I'm about to ruin that by dropping another 10k+ on single turbo, vmount and redo-ing the entire drivetrain.
I wonder what mine's worth now? 93 R1 VR, original body and paint, ohlins coilovers, 76k miles original engine with great compression, BNR S3 twins, adaptronic, interior condition a true 8/10 (pretty much why I bought it). I still have the stock hood and bumper. Of course, clean title all Southern California car with clean carfax and service records going back several years. I got a great deal on this car but I'm about to ruin that by dropping another 10k+ on single turbo, vmount and redo-ing the entire drivetrain.
The BaT parade continues.... with another '93 Touring (Red over Tan). A driver with a re-man and some issues. Should be interesting to see what this one fetches.
I'll go with $25k (w/ compression test) or $20k (without).
Thanks for the response Fritz, I think your evaluation is spot on....but...... I think if you drove this '93 you might change your opinion about it's value.... this 93 is flawless.... I've restored about 25 cars, this one is my favorite, a tasteful, perfect update..... I've addressed the interior problems with tasteful improvements and the 3M carbon wrap on the plastic parts was done with perfection, as well as the red stitch on the console pieces and the seats, I spent many hours prepping all the parts. The interior is far better than any 94 or 95 I've driven.
The paint was done by the best shop here on the west coast of Florida, everything removed, I can't find a flaw anywhere....since these pictures I removed the seat covers cleaned them and had them red stitched to match the console. To a collector this car would never appeal, this 93 was built to suit someone that wants to enjoy a much better example, over stock....and drive it! And again, thanks a bunch for your dialog, this is all about learning what a great car the FD is.
Changing the fuel filter was always a pain...
so I relocated the fuel filter, and re-plumbed all the rubber fuel lines with braided steel and AN fittings.
Last edited by Greg Sabol; 02-23-19 at 11:21 PM.
Reason: add a pic
Thanks for the response Fritz, I think your evaluation is spot on....but...... I think if you drove this '93 you might change your opinion about it's value.... this 93 is flawless.... I've restored about 25 cars, this one is my favorite, a tasteful, perfect update..... I've addressed the interior problems with tasteful improvements and the 3M carbon wrap on the plastic parts was done with perfection, as well as the red stitch on the console pieces and the seats, I spent many hours prepping all the parts. The interior is far better than any 94 or 95 I've driven.
The paint was done by the best shop here on the west coast of Florida, everything removed, I can't find a flaw anywhere....since these pictures I removed the seat covers cleaned them and had them red stitched to match the console. To a collector this car would never appeal, this 93 was built to suit someone that wants to enjoy a much better example, over stock....and drive it! And again, thanks a bunch for your dialog, this is all about learning what a great car the FD is.
As they say. Pictures say 1000 words. I agree I'm off by at least 5k.
I was thinking 5k paint work and stick on carbon stuff. That looks like some nice overlay.
Too bad the title is bad or this could be one of those weird examples a higher mileage car selling for a decent amount or say possibly 30k to the right buyer. The fuel mod for the filter could hurt the value or help similar to the carbon just need the right buyer but my gut is saying this is a nice FD/car.
Best of luck with the sale. If you were closer I'd check it out
Thanks Fritz....when I climb out of the S2000, an into the FD....I don't want to sell it, just love the way it handles, plenty of power, brakes....and wow it's nice to look at, Mazda built a beautiful car! Someday it'll be a 'Milestone car' next to the 67 XKE. But if the right person came along...with money....it'd give me a chance to build another FD...LOL!!
Like I said....this car wasn't built for a 'True collector'....they wouldn't touch a 'Rebuilt' title. I normally wouldn't either, but I knew the stolen history of this FD, and it was just too nice to part out...it'll find a home with someone that wants....this FD.....and I don't care if it doesn't sell...I'm kind of attached to this car...LOL.
Like I said....this car wasn't built for a 'True collector'....they wouldn't touch a 'Rebuilt' title. I normally wouldn't either, but I knew the stolen history of this FD, and it was just too nice to part out...it'll find a home with someone that wants....this FD.....and I don't care if it doesn't sell...I'm kind of attached to this car...LOL.
that car looks like a good driver car, which ultimately is more enjoyable than a stock pristine low mileage example. mod away!
The driver's seat looks way more worn than 23K miles would indicate?
tachometer has been changed, which means likely the whole cluster as well. 23k miles instantly becomes shady, however it does say clean carfax so you would assume that would indicate it. regardless its had its heart ripped out.
tachometer has been changed, which means likely the whole cluster as well. 23k miles instantly becomes shady, however it does say clean carfax so you would assume that would indicate it. regardless its had its heart ripped out.
Yep
For us rotary nuts as soon as you put in a v8 you completely changed the car so the mileage isn't nearly as important etc..., basically the whole vibe of the car is shattered.
Currently if I wanted a v8 I'd go with the 350 mustang. Crazy cool engine in that car.
Compression on the high mileage VR touring is low, yet bidding is already at 12,500 with 8 hours to go. BAT auctions are fascinating.
YUP, they are fascinating.... Someone must have whacked these bidders pretty hard with the stupid stick. Lets see, high miles & a reman engine that leaks like a sieve and has low compression, probably leaky ABS pump, interior is shot and the body can use about $5K in paint/body work to make it presentable. Since it's already high miles and has a reman engine, even if you invested all the time & $ needed to turn it into a pristine stock example, it wouldn't be worth anything to a serious collector anyway.
YUP, they are fascinating.... Someone must have whacked these bidders pretty hard with the stupid stick. Lets see, high miles & a reman engine that leaks like a sieve and has low compression, probably leaky ABS pump, interior is shot and the body can use about $5K in paint/body work to make it presentable. Since it's already high miles and has a reman engine, even if you invested all the time & $ needed to turn it into a pristine stock example, it wouldn't be worth anything to a serious collector anyway.
LOL.......yep not much to get excited about unless you enjoy restoring old cars but even 12,500 seems like steep price for a project like this.
I almost picked a local one up for $10k. It needed a full paint job, had an older single turbo upgrade (read outdated turbo, fuel, ignition, ecu), and interior wasn't great.
I'd be another $20k into it. Any FD that hasn't been taken care of is a real money pit haha.
02-23-19, 07:12 AM
