How to value your FD
03-09-18, 08:35 AM
#802
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The reason I started this thread is folks saw cars listed at 40k so they thought their beat up FD with 100k miles was worth 25k.
I'll repeat: still very difficult to sell your avg FD for 25k.
03-09-18, 08:44 AM
#803
Still very hard to get 25k for your avg FD. Even above avg FDs are hard to sell for 20k plus. Here's an example of a nice car that's likely close to or already sold: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...turbo-1123223/
The reason I started this thread is folks saw cars listed at 40k so they thought their beat up FD with 100k miles was worth 25k.
I'll repeat: still very difficult to sell your avg FD for 25k.
The reason I started this thread is folks saw cars listed at 40k so they thought their beat up FD with 100k miles was worth 25k.
I'll repeat: still very difficult to sell your avg FD for 25k.
I suppose another question is, what is an "average" FD? Is it a 100k mile FD with a rebuilt motor? Is it an original motor car with 60k? Unmodified? Reliability mods?
03-09-18, 09:16 AM
#804
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To be fair.. he's putting in little to no effort to describe the car/sell it/etc. Certainly looks like a nice one (not really stock, but who knows.how far off).
I suppose another question is, what is an "average" FD? Is it a 100k mile FD with a rebuilt motor? Is it an original motor car with 60k? Unmodified? Reliability mods?
I suppose another question is, what is an "average" FD? Is it a 100k mile FD with a rebuilt motor? Is it an original motor car with 60k? Unmodified? Reliability mods?
Seriously I'd say most valuable or well maintained FDs that you could list for sale with everything working etc..... usually have over 100k miles at this time and they are worth 20k max typically UNLESS they have 10k in mods, fresh engine etc...etc... then maybe 25k
Here's a good example: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=476652386&zip=22901 &referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D22901%26modifyS earchId%3Dnull%26startYear%3D1993%26sortBy%3Dderiv edpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0% 26endYear%3D1995%26modelCodeList%3DRX7%26makeCodeL ist%3DMAZDA%26searchRadius%3D0&startYear=1993&numR ecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=1995&modelCodeList =RX7&makeCodeList=MAZDA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=M AZDA&modelCode1=RX7
NOTE...........hard to sell for 25k but probably the best deal currently on autotrader hehe
Perfect example of a car modded the wrong way: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=463260926&zip=22901 &referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D22901%26modifyS earchId%3Dnull%26startYear%3D1993%26sortBy%3Dderiv edpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0% 26endYear%3D1995%26modelCodeList%3DRX7%26makeCodeL ist%3DMAZDA%26searchRadius%3D0&startYear=1993&numR ecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=1995&modelCodeList =RX7&makeCodeList=MAZDA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=M AZDA&modelCode1=RX7
AVG FD: https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=479400739&zip=22901 &referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D22901%26modifyS earchId%3Dnull%26startYear%3D1993%26sortBy%3Dderiv edpriceDESC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0% 26endYear%3D1995%26modelCodeList%3DRX7%26makeCodeL ist%3DMAZDA%26searchRadius%3D0&startYear=1993&numR ecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=1995&modelCodeList =RX7&makeCodeList=MAZDA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=M AZDA&modelCode1=RX7
Hard to sell for 22k
Another typical FD: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...n-dvd-1122009/
I can go all day with the FACT that it's difficult to sell your FD for 25k. Yet someone will point out that a low mileage FD just sold for X amount therefore it's not hard to sell FDs for 25k........whatevs
Last edited by Fritz Flynn; 03-09-18 at 09:21 AM.
03-09-18, 10:33 AM
#805
Spring Fever Round the Corner?
Lets see what this spring brings. Certainly kernels of actively springing forth here in Vancouver, with folk emerging into the light after their winter builds. 1997 RHD RS listed for C$26,000 and a 1992 RHD roller listed for C$9000. Wishful thinking. Likely.
03-09-18, 10:36 AM
#806
I agree with your descriptions of all those examples.
The ONLY FDs that will be selling for those prices are the ones that are either 100% stock, or "stock" with reliability mods with relatively low miles & good compression numbers, or good cosmetic shape with a recently rebuilt motor.
While there is definitely a market for well-modified examples, it's probably not the general public and prices will vary quite a bit there.
The ONLY FDs that will be selling for those prices are the ones that are either 100% stock, or "stock" with reliability mods with relatively low miles & good compression numbers, or good cosmetic shape with a recently rebuilt motor.
While there is definitely a market for well-modified examples, it's probably not the general public and prices will vary quite a bit there.
03-09-18, 12:13 PM
#807
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I agree with your descriptions of all those examples.
The ONLY FDs that will be selling for those prices are the ones that are either 100% stock, or "stock" with reliability mods with relatively low miles & good compression numbers, or good cosmetic shape with a recently rebuilt motor.
While there is definitely a market for well-modified examples, it's probably not the general public and prices will vary quite a bit there.
The ONLY FDs that will be selling for those prices are the ones that are either 100% stock, or "stock" with reliability mods with relatively low miles & good compression numbers, or good cosmetic shape with a recently rebuilt motor.
While there is definitely a market for well-modified examples, it's probably not the general public and prices will vary quite a bit there.
Meanwhile the general public sees them listed for 4xxxx, sell for 3xxxx and then list their's for 3xxxxx then 2xxxxx then 1xxxxx and wonder why the eff it's not selling LOL. Cause it's not a low mileage nice example or IOW it's hard to sell the avg FD for 25k hehe
03-09-18, 01:31 PM
#811
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YEP
Meanwhile the general public sees them listed for 4xxxx, sell for 3xxxx and then list their's for 3xxxxx then 2xxxxx then 1xxxxx and wonder why the eff it's not selling LOL. Cause it's not a low mileage nice example or IOW it's hard to sell the avg FD for 25k hehe
Meanwhile the general public sees them listed for 4xxxx, sell for 3xxxx and then list their's for 3xxxxx then 2xxxxx then 1xxxxx and wonder why the eff it's not selling LOL. Cause it's not a low mileage nice example or IOW it's hard to sell the avg FD for 25k hehe
For example, all bushing replaced, recent quality rebuild, runs great with no issues, almost perfect interior..etc
When all they see is a cosmetic imperfection, a leaking oil pan ...etc
They would rather buy a shiny car that runs like crap or a cheap car that they don't realize they will have to put $10k or more into.
03-09-18, 01:40 PM
#812
Still very hard to get 25k for your avg FD. Even above avg FDs are hard to sell for 20k plus. Here's an example of a nice car that's likely close to or already sold: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...turbo-1123223/
The reason I started this thread is folks saw cars listed at 40k so they thought their beat up FD with 100k miles was worth 25k.
I'll repeat: still very difficult to sell your avg FD for 25k.
The reason I started this thread is folks saw cars listed at 40k so they thought their beat up FD with 100k miles was worth 25k.
I'll repeat: still very difficult to sell your avg FD for 25k.
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Fritz Flynn (03-09-18)
03-09-18, 01:44 PM
#813
It is also hard to get the general public (no working knowledge of the FD) to understand what has value and what does not.
For example, all bushing replaced, recent quality rebuild, runs great with no issues, almost perfect interior..etc
When all they see is a cosmetic imperfection, a leaking oil pan ...etc
They would rather buy a shiny car that runs like crap or a cheap car that they don't realize they will have to put $10k or more into.
For example, all bushing replaced, recent quality rebuild, runs great with no issues, almost perfect interior..etc
When all they see is a cosmetic imperfection, a leaking oil pan ...etc
They would rather buy a shiny car that runs like crap or a cheap car that they don't realize they will have to put $10k or more into.
03-15-18, 09:58 AM
#814
Don't believe me? Go look at the muscle car craze which is starting to wind down. Top flight cars are numbers matching and restored original all the way down to the correct overspray in the fenderwells and paper tags on the rear axle. Car collectors are 45+ year old men with a beer belly and disposable income, they don't want a huge FMIC with a single turbo conversion and a 3" exhaust, no matter how much it costs. When those are the guys buying FDs, that is when we will really see the prices increase. Soon, but not yet.
03-15-18, 02:29 PM
#816
I would disagree on the "high dollar mods" comment. As these transition to collector cars, and they eventually will, the high dollar mods will devalue the cars. Reliability upgrades will likely be a bonus for a driver quality car, but the true top dollar examples will be original all the way down to the cracked AST. Don't believe me? Go look at the muscle car craze which is starting to wind down. Top flight cars are numbers matching and restored original all the way down to the correct overspray in the fenderwells and paper tags on the rear axle. Car collectors are 45+ year old men with a beer belly and disposable income, they don't want a huge FMIC with a single turbo conversion and a 3" exhaust, no matter how much it costs. When those are the guys buying FDs, that is when we will really see the prices increase. Soon, but not yet.
Don't believe me? Go look at the muscle car craze which is starting to wind down. Top flight cars are numbers matching and restored original all the way down to the correct overspray in the fenderwells and paper tags on the rear axle. Car collectors are 45+ year old men with a beer belly and disposable income, they don't want a huge FMIC with a single turbo conversion and a 3" exhaust, no matter how much it costs. When those are the guys buying FDs, that is when we will really see the prices increase. Soon, but not yet.Tier 1 $330K
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...t-Camaro-Yenko
look at the SS. Price drops considerably
Tier 1 $86K
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...o-SS?id=127698
VS modified SS $154K
https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...R-COUPE-137597
the base
Tier 1 $51K
https://www.hagerty.com/apps/valuati...Camaro?id=2579
VS modified base camaro (not SS) $75K:
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds...o/2065216.html
Now there is a BIG DIFFERENCE in the yenko model and that is where originality counts (200 produced 427cid/425hp). Here in the RX-7 world we have 4 models (touring, PEP, Base and R1/2) none that much different other than a sunroof really. Grab a base model and slap an R1 lip, spoiler, strut bar and oil coolers and you can tell everyone that you have an R1/2 model. No one will tell the difference not even by glancing at the VIN number. Nope the only way to tell would be to write it down, contact mazda and have them trace it back via the serial number. Now IMO the only special model where I agree with your criteria is the CYM as it was only the 93 R1 that had that option.
Car collectors are 45+ year old men with a beer belly and disposable income, they don't want a huge FMIC with a single turbo conversion and a 3" exhaust, no matter how much it costs.
Last edited by Montego; 03-15-18 at 02:39 PM.
03-15-18, 03:10 PM
#817
Your comparisons aren't entirely really valid. For starters, you are comparing Hagerty data (predictive) with actual auction data. Anyone who has been to an auction knows that you can get one-off market prices based on two guys with big wallets and a stomach full of booze who both fall in love with the same car. Also, the reality is that that $150k pro-street Camaro probably cost $300k to build, as it's a full custom job. Not exactly a great investment. Second, a full pro-street/restomod 1969 Camaro is a far different animal than an FD RX7 with a bodykit and a big turbo. A pro-street/restomod Camaro is more like an FD with a full carbon fiber body, and built suspension and brakes, running an R26B from a 787B. Full on unique custom car with no expense spared.
Just take a look at the FDs that have sold for decent money on BaT. Stock or close to stock with reliability mods, clean, and low miles bring a premium.
As for hot rods and muscle cars, they are mostly owned by older men (yes with beer bellies) who stand around parking lots listening to do-wop music. These are the men that drove muscle cars into six figures, and now they are slowly aging out of the hobby. It's why you can see the prices for muscle cars starting to plateau or even decline. These guys grew up dreaming of a 1969 SS 454 Chevelle, now they are living their dream. But dreams are generational, and as a child of the 1980s I didn't grow up dreaming of muscle cars. That's why cars of the 80s/90s are starting to creep upwards, and IMHO will continue to do so. We can reconvene here in 10 years and see who is right.
Just take a look at the FDs that have sold for decent money on BaT. Stock or close to stock with reliability mods, clean, and low miles bring a premium.
As for hot rods and muscle cars, they are mostly owned by older men (yes with beer bellies) who stand around parking lots listening to do-wop music. These are the men that drove muscle cars into six figures, and now they are slowly aging out of the hobby. It's why you can see the prices for muscle cars starting to plateau or even decline. These guys grew up dreaming of a 1969 SS 454 Chevelle, now they are living their dream. But dreams are generational, and as a child of the 1980s I didn't grow up dreaming of muscle cars. That's why cars of the 80s/90s are starting to creep upwards, and IMHO will continue to do so. We can reconvene here in 10 years and see who is right.
03-15-18, 03:45 PM
#818
I would not have considered buying my FD if it was "modified", even though it was my ideal color/trim. The very few and minor mods which had been done (downpipe, cat-back, metal AST, radio) were my upper limit of acceptable, but I would have preferred and ultimately paid more for it had it been 100% OEM. Single turbo, suspension, big brakes, body kit, etc., would have made it a no-go, regardless of components and quality of work.
03-15-18, 04:31 PM
#819
Sure they are. You just don't like it because it contradicts what you said. No matter how you try to diminish it. 
There are much better ways to invest 30K so anyone who buys a car for investment purposes is an idiot. A bigger idiot if they modified it for the purposes of making money.
Edit- BTW Adam's car fetched a pretty penny and it wasn't stock, which goes right along the lines of what DJ was saying:
As his mods were: Cheap Bastard Intake / Mild port / 99 J-spec turbos / M2 DP / RB dual CB / Efini y-pipe / Blitz SMIC / PFC / 1300's / Supra pump / ACT clutch / SR 9.5 flywheel / Fluidyne / Eibachs
Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy
Not exactly a great investment
Edit- BTW Adam's car fetched a pretty penny and it wasn't stock, which goes right along the lines of what DJ was saying:
As his mods were: Cheap Bastard Intake / Mild port / 99 J-spec turbos / M2 DP / RB dual CB / Efini y-pipe / Blitz SMIC / PFC / 1300's / Supra pump / ACT clutch / SR 9.5 flywheel / Fluidyne / Eibachs
Last edited by Montego; 03-15-18 at 04:53 PM.
03-15-18, 05:52 PM
#820
I would not have considered buying my FD if it was "modified", even though it was my ideal color/trim. The very few and minor mods which had been done (downpipe, cat-back, metal AST, radio) were my upper limit of acceptable, but I would have preferred and ultimately paid more for it had it been 100% OEM. Single turbo, suspension, big brakes, body kit, etc., would have made it a no-go, regardless of components and quality of work.
Single turbo/parallel conversion is an instant dealbreaker as is any sort of body modification outside of OEM.
03-15-18, 07:36 PM
#821
100% agree with this sentiment. I had the same thought when I purchased mine. The only thing I think I would add to the acceptable list is that the suspension be refreshed/OEM or very high quality (Ohlins, AST, Moton, etc) suspension be installed.
Single turbo/parallel conversion is an instant dealbreaker as is any sort of body modification outside of OEM.
Single turbo/parallel conversion is an instant dealbreaker as is any sort of body modification outside of OEM.
Having said that, I would do it differently if I could do it over because I know FD’s so much better and know which mods are the highest of quality. The car I bought needed some re-working in several areas, which I’ve addressed and am now pleased with.
I’ve never totaled everything, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I’ve invested $5,000 after purchase. Maybe a little less. For that, I’ve got a genuine Garrett single turbo, coilovers, full supporting mods of quality and quality workmanship.
Point being, even though I had to re-tool it, I’ve still saved thousands compared to buying a stock or nearly stock car and starting from scratch. Like I said, it’s dependent on your end goals. If you want a totally stock investor car, you’ll pay a premium for that. If you’re like me and always wanted a modified FD, then you’ll pay a premium for that.
Nick
03-15-18, 07:50 PM
#822
It’s difficult to know if this sentiment is the exception, or the rule. I bought my car with a ton of mods already done because I knew I wanted to mod the car myself and buying it already done saved me a bunch of money.
Having said that, I would do it differently if I could do it over because I know FD’s so much better and know which mods are the highest of quality. The car I bought needed some re-working in several areas, which I’ve addressed and am now pleased with.
I’ve never totaled everything, but I wouldn’t be surprised if I’ve invested $5,000 after purchase. Maybe a little less. For that, I’ve got a genuine Garrett single turbo, coilovers, full supporting mods of quality and quality workmanship.
Point being, even though I had to re-tool it, I’ve still saved thousands compared to buying a stock or nearly stock car and starting from scratch. Like I said, it’s dependent on your end goals. If you want a totally stock investor car, you’ll pay a premium for that. If you’re like me and always wanted a modified FD, then you’ll pay a premium for that.
Nick
We continue to see an interesting dichotomy between new rx7 owners and old rx7 owners.
03-15-18, 08:45 PM
#823
For non-rx7 lifers, it's unreasonable and intimidating to make distinctions about quality of work and parts and value. What's the old adage? "Stock stuff just works." Or, something like that.
We continue to see an interesting dichotomy between new rx7 owners and old rx7 owners.
We continue to see an interesting dichotomy between new rx7 owners and old rx7 owners.
Nick
03-15-18, 08:52 PM
#824
I mod my cars with no expense spared. I either buy the best available for any given part or I leave that part stock. Call it brand whoring, but I believe that brands have their reputation for a reason. I also believe that all modifications come with unintended consequences in the long run. All of them, regardless of how significant. From an exhaust tip melting/damaging the rear bumper, having to cut/drill/modify unrelated components to fit the new parts, breaking an interior trim piece which required removal, etc., etc. I'm confident most here have enough experience to agree, even slightly.
