fd's future price.
01-20-14 | 01:49 PM
#76
but comments like this have never resonated with me. People forever have been saying the low milage, unmolested FD's are going to be the collectible ones. I disagree.This isn't a 1955 mercedes Benz Gullwing where being 100% stock is what counts. No these cars fall in line with late 60's/early 70's muscle. Cars that owners loved to modify and extract as much potential as they possibly could. Cars that kids revered and dreamed about owning. With that said take a look at this 1967 camaro. Not even close to stock: Asking price is $100,000
1967 Chevrolet Camaro SS for Sale | ClassicCars.com | CC-489192
Description
Take a look at this beauty! This vehicle won Best of Show at the Hard Rock Café Car show in 2012! It was also featured in the August 2011 Edition/Issue of Super Chevy Magazine and also the winner of the following categories: Top Editor's Choice, Winner Pro Street Class and Best Pro Street/Pro Engineered Car at the Palm Beach, FL Super Chevy Car Show!
More Specs:
1. 1967 Camaro SS with NEW Art Morrison Custom Rear 4-link Frame with Coil Over Adjustable Shocks - Chromed & Painted Black with Sikkins paint.
2. NEW Ford 9" Rear End with 390 Gear & stud girddles Painted Black wth Sikkins paint.
3. NEW TKO600 5-Speed Transmission from Classic Motorsports Group with crossmember, clutch, pressure plate & Drive Shaft.
4. NEW Control Arms with Adjustable Front Coilover Shocks.
5. Boyd Coddingtons Espada Wheels 20X15 Rears and 18x8 Fronts wrapped with Mickey Thompson & Nittos Tires.
6. All Roller Built 4 bolt main Chevy Smallblock with vortex heads and March Accy's Drive Kit & MSD Distributor polished intake manifold & ceramic headers with Vintage A/C Kit.
7. Custom all NEW leather Interior including Door Panels & Headliner.
8. Polished 3" Stainless Steel Exhaust & Fuel Cell.
9. Custom radio with Amp / CD player and remote control.
10. Custom Kindigit Flush Mounted Door Handles with Remote Control Door Locks.
11. Custom Trunk Leather Paneling with NOS & Fire Extng polished Bottles.
12. All NEW Glass, Weatherstripping & Dynomat.
13. All NEW Front & Rear Bumpers.
14. All NEW Wiring Harness & Fuse Box.
15. NEW Budnik Steering Wheel Polished & Leather wrapped.
17. NEW Classic Instruments Gauges.
18. Chromed Inner Fender Wells.
19. All NEW Aluminum Be Cool Radiator with Electric Fan.
20. Engine is a 383 Stroker
21. Chrome Hood Hinges, Lock, Braces, etc.... to much more to list!
Take a look at this beauty! This vehicle won Best of Show at the Hard Rock Café Car show in 2012! It was also featured in the August 2011 Edition/Issue of Super Chevy Magazine and also the winner of the following categories: Top Editor's Choice, Winner Pro Street Class and Best Pro Street/Pro Engineered Car at the Palm Beach, FL Super Chevy Car Show!
More Specs:
1. 1967 Camaro SS with NEW Art Morrison Custom Rear 4-link Frame with Coil Over Adjustable Shocks - Chromed & Painted Black with Sikkins paint.
2. NEW Ford 9" Rear End with 390 Gear & stud girddles Painted Black wth Sikkins paint.
3. NEW TKO600 5-Speed Transmission from Classic Motorsports Group with crossmember, clutch, pressure plate & Drive Shaft.
4. NEW Control Arms with Adjustable Front Coilover Shocks.
5. Boyd Coddingtons Espada Wheels 20X15 Rears and 18x8 Fronts wrapped with Mickey Thompson & Nittos Tires.
6. All Roller Built 4 bolt main Chevy Smallblock with vortex heads and March Accy's Drive Kit & MSD Distributor polished intake manifold & ceramic headers with Vintage A/C Kit.
7. Custom all NEW leather Interior including Door Panels & Headliner.
8. Polished 3" Stainless Steel Exhaust & Fuel Cell.
9. Custom radio with Amp / CD player and remote control.
10. Custom Kindigit Flush Mounted Door Handles with Remote Control Door Locks.
11. Custom Trunk Leather Paneling with NOS & Fire Extng polished Bottles.
12. All NEW Glass, Weatherstripping & Dynomat.
13. All NEW Front & Rear Bumpers.
14. All NEW Wiring Harness & Fuse Box.
15. NEW Budnik Steering Wheel Polished & Leather wrapped.
17. NEW Classic Instruments Gauges.
18. Chromed Inner Fender Wells.
19. All NEW Aluminum Be Cool Radiator with Electric Fan.
20. Engine is a 383 Stroker
21. Chrome Hood Hinges, Lock, Braces, etc.... to much more to list!
As far as milage is concerned: Most older cars are completely redone and therefore original milage is a non issue. Many have already put in a new engine, transmission, suspension bushings, coilovers, brakes, carpets, seats, ect. At what point does one begin to call it redone? I don't know but if you have an FD that has all of that done I'd say its pretty close. My car is at the shop with a new engine and transmission and in light of this thread, I going to go ahead and replace more items (suspension, brakes, seats, carpet) so I can call my insurance company and get my car re-evaluted. Hopefully they'll call it redone. (I don't plan on selling it).
Now I'm not saying that our cars will fetch 100K. What I am saying is that having a quality modified vehicle does not necessarily lower the car's value.
there's a number of people in every market that believe they can list prices well above market value in an attempt to drive values up. about the only thing it usually serves to do is to give other owners the impression that they can do the same and you can sometimes see others repeat the inflated asking prices.
this dates back to even common series 2 GS FBs, where they have been attempted to be sold in the $15k+ range for somewhat clean 100k miles cars. the listings of course just fall from one page to the next. it has little relation compared the much more limited FD except it does always have to do with what someone will actually pay for the car. in that case it would be like someone asking $60k for a 50k mile FD(when you compare actual car value).
this dates back to even common series 2 GS FBs, where they have been attempted to be sold in the $15k+ range for somewhat clean 100k miles cars. the listings of course just fall from one page to the next. it has little relation compared the much more limited FD except it does always have to do with what someone will actually pay for the car. in that case it would be like someone asking $60k for a 50k mile FD(when you compare actual car value).
You make a very good point and so it seems that lately everyone decided to jump on that bandwagon. Including KBB and NADA. Too bad this isn't the housing market where price sold is public information so you are making a point that can't really be proven or disproven. Except that in the event of a total loss, consumers are given Fair Market Price for their vehicle. Which coincidentally it is concluded by gathering current for sale ads. Funny isn't it?
Last edited by Montego; 01-20-14 at 02:03 PM.
01-20-14 | 01:54 PM
#77
the issue is that most modified FDs are done by inexperienced kids in their parent's garages.
this gives even the professionally built cars criticism and reliability concerns. a stock FD has much less chance of spitting an apex seal than a custom single turbo tuned by "what's his face at the shop down the street". even turbo kits assembled by various people have quality ranges from 1-10 and use the whole spectrum, a install may look good from the outside but 1k miles down the road the turbo is shot and the welds on the manifolds cracking. these are always major concerns.
this gives even the professionally built cars criticism and reliability concerns. a stock FD has much less chance of spitting an apex seal than a custom single turbo tuned by "what's his face at the shop down the street". even turbo kits assembled by various people have quality ranges from 1-10 and use the whole spectrum, a install may look good from the outside but 1k miles down the road the turbo is shot and the welds on the manifolds cracking. these are always major concerns.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-20-14 at 01:56 PM.
01-20-14 | 02:15 PM
#78
Not mine homie
This is exactly why I said that you were trying to wet blanket the notion. I clearly stated:
What I am saying is that having a quality modified vehicle does not necessarily lower the car's value.
this gives even the professionally built cars criticism and reliability concerns. a stock FD has much less chance of spitting an apex seal than a custom single turbo tuned by "what's his face at the shop down the street". even turbo kits assembled by various people have quality ranges from 1-10 and use the whole spectrum, a install may look good from the outside but 1k miles down the road the turbo is shot and the welds on the manifolds cracking. these are always major concerns.
Therefore I grant you (fill it out as you please):
Because no matter what, you will **** on anything FD related. You stated it in the past that you personally do not like FD's and let me tell you it shows.
Last edited by Montego; 01-20-14 at 02:20 PM.
01-21-14 | 11:59 AM
#79
i have said the same about any series of rotary car, but you're right. my outlook is bleak for resale on rotary powered cars in general, because they are less forgiving than many other engine platform cars and that hurts the general interest in the car overall.
even the 8 i bought for my other half tends to think it's worth more than it actually is, because i watch the market and see what the cars actually do sell for. sometimes i am impressed, most of the time i am not.
even the 8 i bought for my other half tends to think it's worth more than it actually is, because i watch the market and see what the cars actually do sell for. sometimes i am impressed, most of the time i am not.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-21-14 at 12:02 PM.
01-21-14 | 12:10 PM
#80
01-21-14 | 01:08 PM
#81
All out Track Freak!
iTrader: (263)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 412
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
Mazda RX-7s for Sale in Charlottesville, VA 22901 - AutoTrader.com
Proof of what lies ahead.
Anyone looking for a nice clean FD better buy it now.
There are very few cars that are decent for less than 20k.
Take a look at what's currently on this forum, autotrader or ebay.
There isn't a car at a price I'd be interested in buying at all other than my own 94 VR r2 and it is now no longer for sale because I will have a hard time replacing it LOL
I suspect that any FD you pay less than 15k for will be a problem child or have one or more of these problems:
bushing and or ball joint issues from front to back
fluid and exhaust leaks
rust
Interior things missing or things in bad shape
low quality repaint
low quality or bad tires
high mileage with evidence of a life spent outside/not in a garage
previous collision that's probably hidden/not on carfax
etc.....
If ever there was a car that you get what you pay for it's the FD
PS There are too heavily modded cars on ebay at 20k plus. Neither of those car would of sold for 17k 2 years ago. CYM and R1 repainted CW (doesn't have AC/PS/ABS).
Proof of what lies ahead.
Anyone looking for a nice clean FD better buy it now.
There are very few cars that are decent for less than 20k.
Take a look at what's currently on this forum, autotrader or ebay.
There isn't a car at a price I'd be interested in buying at all other than my own 94 VR r2 and it is now no longer for sale because I will have a hard time replacing it LOL
I suspect that any FD you pay less than 15k for will be a problem child or have one or more of these problems:
bushing and or ball joint issues from front to back
fluid and exhaust leaks
rust
Interior things missing or things in bad shape
low quality repaint
low quality or bad tires
high mileage with evidence of a life spent outside/not in a garage
previous collision that's probably hidden/not on carfax
etc.....
If ever there was a car that you get what you pay for it's the FD
PS There are too heavily modded cars on ebay at 20k plus. Neither of those car would of sold for 17k 2 years ago. CYM and R1 repainted CW (doesn't have AC/PS/ABS).
01-21-14 | 01:16 PM
#82
well i give it the benefit, since there have been many horrible boinger engine designs in the past that couldn't handle even 100whp to 100,000 miles without rattling apart. anyone remember GM's pile of engineering called the Daewoo? AMC motors? Yugo?
the rotary can handle lots of power without much modification, but you MUST know what you are doing. the shelf life on the engines past 1986 also has some major drawbacks, even a low mile car can still need an engine overhaul at 20k miles after 25 years of sitting around. the prior designs handled this life expectancy issue better but at fractional power levels.
the rotary can handle lots of power without much modification, but you MUST know what you are doing. the shelf life on the engines past 1986 also has some major drawbacks, even a low mile car can still need an engine overhaul at 20k miles after 25 years of sitting around. the prior designs handled this life expectancy issue better but at fractional power levels.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-21-14 at 01:22 PM.
01-21-14 | 01:41 PM
#83
Low mile clean cars will always have a market demand. The swapped cars bring some decent money. Particularly ones well sorted and clean bring upwards of $30k+.
Usually LS3 and LS7 cars. The value is in line with how the car is equipped obviously.
I have mine insured for an agreed value of $30k.
Usually LS3 and LS7 cars. The value is in line with how the car is equipped obviously.
I have mine insured for an agreed value of $30k.
01-21-14 | 03:12 PM
#84
Low mile clean cars will always have a market demand. The swapped cars bring some decent money. Particularly ones well sorted and clean bring upwards of $30k+.
Usually LS3 and LS7 cars. The value is in line with how the car is equipped obviously.
I have mine insured for an agreed value of $30k.
Usually LS3 and LS7 cars. The value is in line with how the car is equipped obviously.
I have mine insured for an agreed value of $30k.
01-21-14 | 04:26 PM
#86
True. I was in the boat I was describing when I decided I wanted an FD. I looked at more than a few 13B FD's for sale and even though I am experienced with cars I realized I couldn't tell a good from bad 13B and finding someone who I could trust to work on it was not an easy task at all. Now, a GM v8 could break down in any hillbilly small town and have plenty of people qualified to help with it. Now, the problem with the C6Z is that I didn't want one since I was 13 years old lol.
01-22-14 | 08:48 AM
#87
Besides who wants to drive what everyone else is driving? You may prefer the 13B but the power delivery is just awesome in the V-8 swapped cars.
The linear power and torque out of the corners you would easily break your own track record if you had an LS3/LS7 in your car.
A little bit off topic here but the value I see is the cars will still be longed after for swaps.
The car is comparably rare to other cars and the design even after 20 years is still relevant.
If in comparison I look at a 20 year old corvette or BMW they look just old and outdated.
It is also what looks to be the last of the Rotary powered cars. There will
Always be a demand for that regardless of its checkered reputation.
Like any other car/collectible item from timepieces, cars to baseball cards; its rarity, condition and aesthetics will determine its value and collectibility.
01-22-14 | 08:58 AM
#88
I would also like to mention that the lightweight sports car with drop dead looks and track capable chassis makes it a lock as a future collectible.
Take into account some other things that make it a pure sports car in an era before all the stability control and many of the "driver aids" that cannot even be fully defeated in newer cars makes its a more viceral driving experience.
I switch cars with my best friend who has a 2008 CZ06 and he likes the RX-7 better. That's my car with an LS3. So the car is obviously more then the sum of its drivetrain components.
Folks here get into a mind set that the RX-7 is only about its engine design. The car is so much more then that.
At least to me.
Take into account some other things that make it a pure sports car in an era before all the stability control and many of the "driver aids" that cannot even be fully defeated in newer cars makes its a more viceral driving experience.
I switch cars with my best friend who has a 2008 CZ06 and he likes the RX-7 better. That's my car with an LS3. So the car is obviously more then the sum of its drivetrain components.
Folks here get into a mind set that the RX-7 is only about its engine design. The car is so much more then that.
At least to me.
01-22-14 | 09:35 AM
#89
All out Track Freak!
iTrader: (263)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10,672
Likes: 412
From: Charlottesville VA 22901
True. I was in the boat I was describing when I decided I wanted an FD. I looked at more than a few 13B FD's for sale and even though I am experienced with cars I realized I couldn't tell a good from bad 13B and finding someone who I could trust to work on it was not an easy task at all. Now, a GM v8 could break down in any hillbilly small town and have plenty of people qualified to help with it. Now, the problem with the C6Z is that I didn't want one since I was 13 years old lol.
Fritz, you and I can afford cars other then an FD but we both love them over driving around some run of the mill corvette.
Besides who wants to drive what everyone else is driving? You may prefer the 13B but the power delivery is just awesome in the V-8 swapped cars.
The linear power and torque out of the corners you would easily break your own track record if you had an LS3/LS7 in your car.
A little bit off topic here but the value I see is the cars will still be longed after for swaps.
The car is comparably rare to other cars and the design even after 20 years is still relevant.
If in comparison I look at a 20 year old corvette or BMW they look just old and outdated.
It is also what looks to be the last of the Rotary powered cars. There will
Always be a demand for that regardless of its checkered reputation.
Like any other car/collectible item from timepieces, cars to baseball cards; its rarity, condition and aesthetics will determine its value and collectibility.
Besides who wants to drive what everyone else is driving? You may prefer the 13B but the power delivery is just awesome in the V-8 swapped cars.
The linear power and torque out of the corners you would easily break your own track record if you had an LS3/LS7 in your car.
A little bit off topic here but the value I see is the cars will still be longed after for swaps.
The car is comparably rare to other cars and the design even after 20 years is still relevant.
If in comparison I look at a 20 year old corvette or BMW they look just old and outdated.
It is also what looks to be the last of the Rotary powered cars. There will
Always be a demand for that regardless of its checkered reputation.
Like any other car/collectible item from timepieces, cars to baseball cards; its rarity, condition and aesthetics will determine its value and collectibility.
01-22-14 | 06:46 PM
#90
Check out this post I started last year: https://www.rx7club.com/3rd-generati...rends-1035408/
The following users liked this post:
firecaddie (06-03-18)
06-06-18 | 03:49 PM
#94
Addicted to Track
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
From: NC
Funny, had just been having this same conversation with my dad. With small kids and less time to tinker on the car, for the first time in my life I've started contemplating selling it. But I just can't bring myself to do it, I'm pretty sure I'll regret it later on. I agree with the people that mentioned this will be the equivalent of the inflated 60's muscle car prices once that generation has moved on and the F&F kids have money. Like you guys mentioned, the RX-7/Supra/3000GT was the last of the raw Japanese cars and was a special era. I can't remember the last time I saw one on the road around here, and it always gets attention every time I drive it. I suspect one day people are going to get tired of these new computerized cars and long for the day a car did exactly what you told it to with the wheel and gas!
I thought Doug did a pretty good job of summing up that sentiment starting around the 10min mark.
I thought Doug did a pretty good job of summing up that sentiment starting around the 10min mark.
06-06-18 | 08:16 PM
#95
Full Member
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 121
Likes: 11
From: Alberta, Canada
People are asking 15k for decent RHD's, and LHD's with almost 100,000km are asking 25+...
06-06-18 | 08:56 PM
#96
The Ancient
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,629
Likes: 236
From: Pennsylvania
Prices on these will never be as cheap as right now, so to speak. Put another way, prices are marching up. They went up a lot in the past 18 months and there is no sign things are slowing down.
06-09-18 | 12:52 PM
#98
The Ancient
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,629
Likes: 236
From: Pennsylvania
It's been interesting to watch the suffering and denial and complaining in the last 2 years as prices took off (and show no signs of slowing down). About 5-10 years ago the FD's were one of the incredible performance bargains. They are still priced where you can buy one well, but the really nice ones have become expensive by the Rx7 community's standards. I don't want to say where I think prices are for 2 reasons. First, everyone here can quickly check autotrader and eBay. Second, Fritz will be all over me, if I say prices are where I think they are.
06-09-18 | 02:04 PM
#99
As said before, any low-mileage, high-end-trim levels of most pure sports cars, before the era of electronic nannies, will only go up in value. The muscle car segment is about to dip, as the baby boomers die, and leave their cars to their GenX - Millenial offspring who cannot afford the upkeep and will sell them to pay off some of their student loans. That's a whole other discussion, though.
Now that GenX'ers are finally getting savings enough to buy toys they lusted after as kids, the bubble of '90s-era Japanese sports cars is inflating. Of course this has all been discussed ad-nauseum.
My real curiosity lies in how the aftermarket will support all the NLA items on the FDs. RHD models do not have as much of a problem with this, but the much more limited LHD models suffer from NLA OEM parts that make the FD's value hold. You can go online and build a whole damn 1st-gen Camaro from scratch for reasonably cheap - just cut-out and reuse your VIN. Of course, that Camaro won't be as valuable as a 100% original "survivor" model, or a concourse-restored all-original Camaro of the same vintage. LHD FD parts from yearone and similar companies? No so much. So, while the value of all-original (that's right - 100% original with original engine) low-mileage, high-end-trim FD's will skyrocket into a fever within about 5 year's time, the basket cases, questionably-modified examples, and everything in between will never get to that level of value. The problem might be twofold: NLA OEM parts and a lack of rotary engine specialists. How many all-original NSU rotaries are still alive and kicking? The key is respectably low mileage examples that are as close to stock as possible. A wealthy collector wants 100% completely original examples. "Oh, you did some reliability mods? Good for you. I'll give you more money if you kept all the original parts and the mods are reversible" will be the collector's response. And, let's face it, their the ones driving the prices up. Don't believe me? look at current auctions at Barrett's or whoever. They're out there poring over restored classics matching the level of original build quality from the when the vehicle rolled off of the assembly line - flaws and all.
Now that GenX'ers are finally getting savings enough to buy toys they lusted after as kids, the bubble of '90s-era Japanese sports cars is inflating. Of course this has all been discussed ad-nauseum.
My real curiosity lies in how the aftermarket will support all the NLA items on the FDs. RHD models do not have as much of a problem with this, but the much more limited LHD models suffer from NLA OEM parts that make the FD's value hold. You can go online and build a whole damn 1st-gen Camaro from scratch for reasonably cheap - just cut-out and reuse your VIN. Of course, that Camaro won't be as valuable as a 100% original "survivor" model, or a concourse-restored all-original Camaro of the same vintage. LHD FD parts from yearone and similar companies? No so much. So, while the value of all-original (that's right - 100% original with original engine) low-mileage, high-end-trim FD's will skyrocket into a fever within about 5 year's time, the basket cases, questionably-modified examples, and everything in between will never get to that level of value. The problem might be twofold: NLA OEM parts and a lack of rotary engine specialists. How many all-original NSU rotaries are still alive and kicking? The key is respectably low mileage examples that are as close to stock as possible. A wealthy collector wants 100% completely original examples. "Oh, you did some reliability mods? Good for you. I'll give you more money if you kept all the original parts and the mods are reversible" will be the collector's response. And, let's face it, their the ones driving the prices up. Don't believe me? look at current auctions at Barrett's or whoever. They're out there poring over restored classics matching the level of original build quality from the when the vehicle rolled off of the assembly line - flaws and all.
06-11-18 | 12:23 PM
#100
