redlinefidelitynine

iTrader: (1)

im completely stumped here... (this is an s5 na vert) apparently turbo cars and na seem to have similar if not the same issues with this crank and die or crank no start crap, .... So after days of searching the boards using every SEARCH term i can imagine, ive found the following info and tested it~to the extent listed. Read the info after the procedures... all outputs are compared to values in the FSM i acquired online.

-Fuel pump operation - works while key is in start position and run for about .5-3 seconds (power is cut whne engine dies)
-Fuel pressure 37-40lbs when cranking/running
-Ignition - seems to work fine until engine dies - dont know of any other way to properly test this.
-Flooded, no.. - still fires up...
-ECU codes: 33 - port air valve solenoid, tested at about 28 ohms
-TPS high and low voltages - fine
-AFM resistance, fine
-starting voltage - fine
-idle adjustment ??? wont run, hadnt changed since before i took it apart
-Vacuum lines - replaced nearly ALL the lines that i found here cracked, hard or broken - yes broken , idont even know how this thing ran before i got it
- any other possible pressure or vac leaks - impossible! everything i took apart was resealed with right stuff. - the hardcore sealer, not to be mistaken for great stuff expanding foam.
- Exhaust smoke, blueish white, slight hint of gas or -nothing-... its def. not coolant and not much oil to be concerned with, but i do run premix and that stuff has the -nothing- scent to it when burned..

Initially i started out with a severe bucking hesitation at 4k or above - found a clogged fuel pump strainer due to tank rust, literally sucked a hole through the filter element! one hell of a fuel pump! Anyway thats taken care of, checked fuel pressure, its fine, no more clogged filters.
So, i removed the plenum and uim to remove injectors and flush the lines and injectors (seperately) to make sure there wasnt any rust blown through the in line filter... none. Found nearly every rubber hose and grommet was rock hard or broken - including injector rubbers. Also found the rear aux port shaft is broken, so its been just sitting there @ whatever position.. not an important factor because it was running like this. Also found the throttle body spacer had literally imploded on itself... should have snapped pics. i cut out all the broken BS plastic or wahtever it is that was inside it and made some new gaskets for it and sealed it - checked vac lines and they all flow freely.
Now ive gone though and rechecked every single vacuum line, while removing the uim and plenum 3 freaking times..
-----progressively each time i screwed with the removing, checking, etc the car starts and runs longer.. a whopping 3 seconds, but as soon as i even touch the gas pedal, it pops, stumbles and dies. When it starts though it sounds like its ready to rock and roll... till it just cuts out.

From what i understand the AFM or a vac leak is usually the cause of this - OK checked all that!
Also another bit of info that may or may not matter is when i initially started having the problem w/ the no start... i could keep cranking and it would begin to fire, then stop, fire, stop... consistantly. i have audio of that, if you want it...Now at least it will begin to run smoothly as if its cold starting before it dies..
Anybody know WTF is going on? It HAS to be something i did because it ran before i took it apart, and now it doesnt...
May be a stupid question, but the primary injectors in a na 54 are the reds right?

gofastrxy

im having the exact same problem with me s5 n/a. i just put in a new trans and had to jack the front of the engine up to tilt it. its late and im tired so im going to try to figure it out in the morning. if i fix the problem before you post anything new here ill let you know what my problem was and maybe it will help you out.

luis911

iTrader: (2)

Ummm Clogged injectors?

HAILERS

Engine starts ....runs for a moment and no more.......indicates the afm is unplugged or the signal from the afm to keep the fuel pump running after the key is relaxed to ON from Start, is not there.

To overcome that possibility, jumper the yellow fuel pump check connector...key to ON only......listen for the fuel pump running continuously (should).....then try starting again. IF it was a lack of a signal from the afm to keep the pump running, then the engine should keep running.

Another possibility with the same symptoms, is a large air leak. Like a lage air hose off or duct off. We can't tell from here if that's the case or not. Duct off has the same symptoms as the fuel pump not staying on.

Fuel pump stays runing only when the key is HELD to START or after starting, the engine actually stays running. If engine dies, pump dies. Normal, but you know that.l

Jumper that yellow connector and give it a try.

gofastrxy

for me it was alittle conector that was nasty looking on the intake mani right by the oil filter and also the ground wire down by the starter broke. hope its as easy for you as it was for me. good luck

redlinefidelitynine

iTrader: (1)

gofast.. i imagine you are referring to the intake air temp sensor connector?.... i suppose i could check the grounds again too... from my understanding the car will run without a IAT - maybe that was bs info i received?

HAILERS, injectors are good, jumped the pump and momentarily opened injectors with a 9v.. perfect mist on both the primary injectors. i have to have a major air leak like you said... i took it all apart today to replace the rest of the vacuum lines... Which is a rediculous to try and follow the diagram in the FSM, there are a couple i guessed on ~ there are 3 vac references on the passenger side and the rest are pressure lines if i counted right... was pretty pissed and tired when i quit.
Also something interesting i ran into. the metal vac spider on the passenger side of the engine, the metal line that runs directly from under the large diameter metal pressure pipe (that feeds the oilers in the middle of the engine) to the two plenum nipples that i assume have something to do with an air bypass on the injector cups...(whatever they are technically called) was completely clogged.. rust i assume. Tried blowing 90psi of air through and all i got out was a small mist of rust colored dust, then nothing - clogged solid. Dont know the importance of that line, but the engine ran with it like that. T'ed into one of the other pressure feeds to solve that issue.
This problem is so simple its driving me up the freaking wall having not figuring it out yet.. Im going to put it all back together tomorrow and give that jumpered start a test.

Are there any safeguards that cut ignition? or do they all simply cut the fuel pump and nothing else...?
c

calpatriot

Exhaust restriction? Remove O2 sensor leave hole open try again does it still die?

When it dies is the mixture going lean?

Have you checked the TPS sensor resistances for dropouts across their full range?

redlinefidelitynine

iTrader: (1)

Update...Got it all back together, cleaned the grounds and made sure they were tight. Replaced every single vac hose i could find, blew everything out and... well i got it running, sort of.

- After trying to jumpered pump start, still crank, start and die. HMM.. lets start unhooking sensors and see what that does... unhooked the AFM, and the thing started and ran. Ran poorly, and extremely rich, but at least it started and not very smoothly i might add. Seems as if the timing is a little off too judging by the exhaust note, as if it were stuck in open loop - i wouldnt be suprised if that was the case seeing as how the AFM is disconnected. Thats pretty noticeable onwith my knock off dual corksport exhaust..
- I tested the AFM again, readings are within spec... i dont see how the ecu even measures voltage out of that thing, its so inconsistant between open and closed.
- Without the AFM hooked up it would start, hunt for idle, and never find it.. would settle in about what i would assume is 400rpm.. really low. Like i said running really rich, smoking out the exhaust rich.. the kind of smoke youd expect if you had a oil or coolant seal start to leak ~ but its def. gas for mine.
- Oddly enough, if i shift it into a drive gear (its still an automatic) the idle would suddenly increase to its normal in gear idle speed and would have a bit more power if i were to give it the slightest bit of gas, too much and its cuts out, stubles, and/or dies as usual ~ WTF!
- If i plug in the AFM (in gear or in N/P), the engine would instantly die. When the engine is cold, i cannot give it any throttle at all, just stumbles and dies. If the engine is warm, i can give it a little bit to allow it to rev up to about 3k (unforceably - being exremely light on the throttle), anything after that is bog city until it dies or i let off the throttle which then it would either return back to its shitty low idle or jump around until it clears out.

Ok guru's what the F?

cal- ill check the voltages again, just for kicks, maybe something changed. There is definately not any restriction in the exhaust and im not sure about the fuel mixture upon die - my volt meter is a slow piece of crap (id be lucky to get a reading) and i dont have a gauge handy to hook up to the o2.. ill give it a shot tho


chris

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

are your Injector Wires on Correctly?..did they get placed back on thier respective Injectors?
If your Leading and Trailing Injectors are Mixed up,it will Be a Real Bitch...just like NO Rev..NO acceleration,IF you can Rev it at all you won't get past 3000 if you are lucky.

redlinefidelitynine

iTrader: (1)

OK well first newb dumbass attack... problem solved. Had primary and secondary injectors mixed up - only thing i didnt change.

Next id like to say, ICEMAN (or whomever), Please LABEL "PRIMARY" and/OR "SECONDARY" or list both injector part numbers and/or colors in the FAQS... ~ you know, for the instance that someone needs it... Are all stock secondaries blue top? (whatever the part number was). Heck if i know, i though all 4 injectors were the red oval tops..for my year model anyway. So i had these blue oval top injectors.. i honestly though someone had the wrong ones on my car... Couldnt find any cross reference to anything with the MFG part number in the FSM.. no way to tell!

All the vac lines and lubing of the actuators helped alot tho.. auto acceleration has def. improved... and no more cutting out, woohoo.

BTW i have some TSB's that might be helpful for some second genners.. havent found them anywhere either, but i didnt look that hard either.... Whoever wants em lemme know, ill email them if you post them up for member use.~if they arent already available..
Some are useless and some might be useful to some...

Thanks for the help guys, case closed.. im an idiot this time around...
c

gofastrxy

yeah it would run without the ait but not well and it would act like you have explained your car to act. good luck with the car glad to see its doing better now.