ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Wow, lots of random speculation. Engineering student stepping in for a minute...

The pressure drop from velocity/friction/etc. in the intake is probably very small. The OMP must create the pressure to get the oil in, regardless of what kind of pump it is (be it positive-displacement or whichever). You could suck in oil with a venturri nozzle, but that clearly isn't the case here. Why do I say all this? B/c people are talking about all kinds of effects that are miniscule or don't exist. So that only leaves the OMP to push the friggin oil into the friggin engine. Lay off the Star Trek and flux capacitors people.

Okay, engineering student gradually stepping away... stepping away... and running.

TitaniumTT

sooooooooooooooooooooo you're taking one persons pisspoor test with one gauge and one OMP that may or may not work (on an engine none the less) and instead being manipulated with a corded drill that he doesn't even know which way to rotate it as fact and proof of how the OMP may or may not work and how much pressure it actually makes huh? Sounds like someone is back to spreading bad information again

HAILERS

For what little it's worth on this useless thead................there is no pressure to speak of from the engine pump at all (at the omp feed cavity). How do I KNOW this. By installing a pipe into the cavity of the OMP that is fed from the front cover.

I put a hose on that pipe that was about three ft long (lotta spare hose laying about). Started the engine. Gee willikers, no oil coming out of the hose that is connected to the nipple. Who's a thought.

Anybody that has ever LOOKED at the supply path for the OMP would come to the conclusion there will be little if any oil pressure at the cavity in the omp that it feeds. The feed hole from the front housing to the front cover is apporx 1/8 inch and I'm being generous with that figure. Then the oil goes acrosss the front of the cover to the housing/bore that holds the drive gear and shaft for the OMP.

There's a split pin there that is the same size as the above mentioned hole and it spews oil out when the engine is running. The oil travels up the bore for the drive shaft to the OMP cavity. There's a hole at least 3/16 that dumps the oil back into the pan.

In that cavity there is a REAL small hole of maybe 1/16ths that feeds the omp (as in PUMP). Anyway, in that cavity is where I have drilled a hole for the aforementioned pipe and hose. Zip pressure. IF you suck on the other end of that hose you will draw oil up the hose verifying that the pipe/hose isn't clogged.

So. If one BLOCKS OFF the feed to the OMP from the front cover, and drills the hole and installs a pipe as mentioned, then all he has to do is put the other end of a hose on that PIPE, into a bottle of oil of your choice, and the omp will USE that oil (suck it out of the bottle and pump it to the oil injectors.

The oil from the front cover is used to keep a cavity filled with oil. That engine pump that feeds the front cover cavity is not used for anything else as far as the omp goes.

RotaMan99

Right, but it is not able to create high pressure that some claim. It wont even create 1psi.

RotaMan99

I did know which direction to spin the omp but I decided to double check and I even said that I didn't do the test I wanted to which I still will but the fact that the OMP wouldn't even syphon oil and wouldn't create pressure out one port, tells me its not going to create this "high pressure" some claim.

The OMP DOES WORK, and since you say this you obveously have never carefully looked at th inside of the OMP and all the parts to realize that nothing can really go wrong besides maybe the spring on the front of the distribution cylinder breaking or the OMP being clogged or foeign object causing deep scoring that could redirect the oil flow or have a negitive effect on the syphoning effect or pumping effect.

You have nothing to say in this thread, no information at all.

HAILERS

See my post above this one. There isn't enough pressure AT the omp feed cavity to even move the oil up a piece of hose of 1/8"(ID)diameter. The ENGINE pump only keeps the feed cavity filled with oil. The OMP does the pumping to the oil nozzles.

The hole that dumps unused oil back into the pan is just ONE of the things that keeps Pressure off the omp feed cavity.

HAILERS

Those bockoff plates for a OMP are what is called silly nonsence.

All you have to do is remove all four banjo bolts. In their place install four common bolts of the same thread size. Can't find any short enough? That's why they made hacksaws, bandsaws and Makita grinders.

Worry about the injector lines b/t the omp and the nozzles? Not a big deal. Remove the banjo fittings from the lines and plug the lines with RTV (just a DAB in the lines hole is all it would take) after you clean the interiors with acetone or your favorite cleaner. If you don't stop those lines up, you'll have a unmetered air leak to the intake of each rotor.

Or if you want, connect a vacuum gauge to a OMP feed line and monitor the vacuum/pressure of the rotors intake stroke (block off the spider air feed nipple first and cap the intake manifold that feeds the spider).

TitaniumTT

You're reading comp problems from the other forum followed you here.... the one pump that was in your hand.... how do we know it works? I've read Hailers tell us many times that he put a cup of oil on the ground and watched the OMP suck it up. Your's didn't. So who do we believe? I'd believe anything Hailers told me over what you have to say.

In addition. If you KNEW which way it rotates, you wouldn't have to double check. I know what truck I am about to walk out to, I'm not going to walk out into the parking lot and chirp my horn to double check, just like I know how to get home tonight, I'm not going to double check a map. By admitting you need to double check something as trivial as the rotation, you admitted that you don't know squat about the OMP. You've been messing with it for 3 years, 3 years and you don't know which way to rotate it... genius I tell ya

imloggedin

so has anyone really figured out how it injects oil under boost? lol

RotaMan99

hahah. I did this last year. Same exact thing as hailers except it was from a 2 stroke bottle and not a cup. Syphoned the fluid about 4 feet up from the floor to the pump which was on my work bench. Infact I tried different size tubing and even stuck the 2 stroke bottle in the frezzer for a few hours to get it real cold to see if the OMP could still syphon the oil while its thick. I found that the OMP syphoned best with 3/16" tubing. If you went with larger tubing, you would need to have it gravity fed because the OMP wouldn't be able to syphon the oil as good as it does with 3/16" OD tubing. Also the ID of the 3/16" tubing is about the same as the Inner diameter of the intake port on the OMP.

What are you trying to prove here? You ruin every thread you come in now get lost.

Your funny. Yes I decided to double check since I havn't touch the OMP in about 2 months. Let us know what you know about the OMP. Come on tell us?

HAILERS and NZConvert convered this.

HAILERS

There's higher pressure at the top of the nozzle than in the rotor intake chamber. Air at the top of the nozzle shoves the oil into the rotor chamber. Either na or turboii.

The area of the intake chamber increases as the rotor turns in the chamber, which in turn causes a lower pressure area in the intake chamber of the rotor verses the air at the top of the nozzle..

End of discussion. Die OMP thread, die.

TitaniumTT

So you've been working on it for three years, but not touched it in two months? And before those two months, was it 2 yr and 10 months before that?

& I have brought good advice into this thread, it's don't trust you & don't listen to you. You completey contradicted youself AGAIN. It's such a bad habit it's freakin comical. Let me point it out -
So which is it? Can nothing go wrong? Is it perfectly reliable, or should we all go check our o-rings. Seriously viperdude, you bring nothing but bad advice and misinformation, I will not get lost as long as you feel the need to be an e-hero grasping for attention and upping your postcount with useless regeurgitated wrong information. As long as that happens I along with plenty of other people will become your arch nemesis' as they prove you wrong. You are not some superhero here for the greater good of the rotary community. Your a whiny little backstabbing child who desperately needs attention and tries to get it by sounding like a know-it-all. There are countless threads and posts where you were proven wrong but would not except all the empircal proof that could be crammed down your throat and you kept argueing and argueing. Do what you want with your botched experiments to your rusty gold FC & stop given good people with good cars information that can be detremental, wrong and sometimes dangerous.

RotaMan99

I never contridicted my self. The OMP its self failing due to normal wear is almost unseen, gaskets dry up and leak over time and this should be included in the "tune up". If you don't take care of your engine and use crappy filters or don't change your oil, then things can start to wear excesivly. This goes for anything in the engine.

In this thread, you brought nothing but a bunch of bulshit. You know NOTHING about the omp otherwise you would have brought some good to this thread. Yet another thread you screwed up. Nice going im sure you are winning loser points for screwing up so many threads.

I know about the OMP and you obveously don't. You are nit picking like everyone else in the forum that knows nothing about the omp.

Why the hell would anyone want to trust you on this subject? You know nothing about it!

After 18-20 years of service, it would be time to go through the entire engine including the omp to clean it out and inspect like you would do everything else to make sure its in tip top shape.

Show me ANY INFORMATION IN THIS THREAD THAT IS WRONG!!!!!!!! SHOW ME!!!!!!!!

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

I would guess that the OMP supplies very high pressure at very low flow. Which means if you connect it to a hose or anything wider than a hair it'll produce no pressure. Or your oil pressure is 30-60psi, and really all it has to do is let the oil out. Just a guess, but I highly doubt that the pressure is low as people claim.

RotaMan99

^

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

haha, it starts over again. On that note, off to find new OMP gaskets, lines etc. I thought i saw a rebuild kit for the OMP in this thread, but I cant find it. I'd like the peace of mind knowing that mine works properly and isnt leaking (like it is now, around the throttle arm)

TitaniumTT

I have not brought anything to this thread becuase all the knowledge that is needed has been brought here by Hailers, NZ'vert, and RETed - NOT you - oh Mazda R & D too. The best bit of information that I brought to this thread was DON'T LISTEN TO YOU UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. That's the only point I'm trying to make here. You try to be a jack of all trades and in the process you've mastered NONE! Look at your global how to's links on how to find intake tubing diameter.... are you ******* kidding me?!?!?! Seriously - read through the whole thing and at the end you basically say that your silly little half-assed math on the interznetz should trump all the R&D that Mazda did on the subject Oh yeah, your exhaust math, there are so many variables that you're NOT taking into consideration. I had a VERY brief lesson from an ENGINEER @ Magnaflow and a PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER basically said you're wrong, all of us in the other forum were wrong. Are you seriously going to tell me that he's wrong and the math that you googled was right? I can quote you as saying, "I had to check my math on the internet." All I seriously want you to do is admit to yourself that you are not the second coming to the rotary, and MOST of what you speak and try to prove is wrong.

The OMP works, it's been proven - TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME AFTER TIME, WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE IN THIS THREAD?

CyberPitz

Well, I'm not sure what you mean by "banjo bolts" since I've never known what they were. Are they the 4 screws that are at the end of the lines that go INTO the OMP? If that's the case, and you install the 4 regular bolts into it, won't that cause some sort of build up of oil/gas there, and it will just CAUSE a leak somewhere?

And plus, what if I have an oil leak from where the two bolts are screwing the OMP into the body, I'm not sure what's truly causing the leak, but I think the screws/holes are stripped to the body. So I might have to get some thread sealer in there to fix the problem, but I'm not sure. I figure if I do what you said, I would still, sadly, have a leak. Any input on that?

HAILERS

********************* Just a guess, but I highly doubt that the pressure is low as people claim.[/QUOTE]
************************************************** *********

And I doubt you know Jack ****. Insult for insult. Tit for tat.

HAILERS

)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )

They're the four bolts that hold the banjo fittings on the OMP.

Some pictures attached of *stuff*

1st jpg shows where a person can drill a hole and install a nipple to feed the omp from a seperate source that the engine oil feed. It also shows where the four banjo bolts can be replaced by common bolts if you wanted to make the omp useless.

1st jpg shows how you can put a hose on that new nipple to measure the pressure from the engine oil pump AT the oil feed cavity of the omp.

2nd jpg shows in RED the path of engine oil TO the OMP. And also shows the two holes where the pressure is bled off.

Third and forth jpgs should be self explanatory.......I think.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

yea, a banjo bolt is a partially threaded bolt that has a hole drilled into it at the tip along its center line up to the head, and then holes drilled perpendicular to this in the un-threaded part, so that a fluid can flow through the hole at the tip, through the bolt, and out the other holes.

Speaking of these, what size are the banjo-type fittings on the oil injectors? Are they the same size as the banjo bolts that connect the OMP to the lines?

HAILERS

Well, you DO know Jack.

I got my SunPro mechanical oil gauge out.
Put three regular bolts in the OMP outlet holes.
The fourth output hole on the OMP, I put a banjo bolt and banjo fitting into. Then attached a two foot long piece of small engine, clear fuel tubing.

Started the engine and lifted the omp rod full up. Saw the usual ooching of the oil up the clear line.

Shoved the SunPro nylon line into the clear small engine fuel tubing. Fairly tight fit.

Rev'd the engine up while holding the omp rod full up. Oil still ooching up the line.

OOOps. Guauge read maybe five to ten psi at idle but now it's rising. Each ooooch of the oil in the line increases the pressure til it got up to 40psi and blew the SunPro line out of the small engine fuel line.

So if you deadhead the lines and rev on up, there is considerable pressure. How much higher than forty? Got me. You've proven me quite wrong about the output pressure in the omp lines.

I stick with the inlet oil pressure TO the OMP cavity pressure though. None there to speak of. Won't even push oil up THAT line when left open on the other end (talking here about the new omp nipple that I installed in the OMP fill cavity. The cavity fed from the engine).

I formally retract my Jack **** remark.

HAILERS

Banjp fittings are larger on the nozzles.

TitaniumTT

Oh now THIS is AWESOME.

So Hailers.... are you saying that the results of your test with a functioning OMP on a RUNNING engine is completely different from what rotaman99 aka viperdude got with his questionable OMP on a bench with his drill that may or may not be running the the correct direction? Let me sum this up, Rotaman says 0 pressure, Hailers says >40psi.................... hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I said it before & I stand by it. I'd listen to Hailers talk about nuclear physics before I took lessons from rotaman about the proper way to calculate the right length of shoe laces to buy.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so it is a high pressure, low flow pump then! Woo hoo!

I guess the banjo fittings on the oil injectors are probably the M10's then