gsracer

I love seeing normal looking civics rape the **** out of people who don't expect it

dvcn

I'm guessing that you are getting heavy wheelspin in first and a fair amount in second gear? When the mph is not in line with the ET it usually has to do with traction problems. Put on more tire or shift weight to the rear. Is you battery mounted in the back?

BDoty311

Ya I know its a traction problem. No my battery is still in the front. I hope I can find a GXL at the junkyard, steal the 5-lug hubs and LSD, get some GXL wheels, and wrap them in some street-slicks.

dvcn

I forgot to ask if you are running limited slip? If you aren't, that will make the difference. You can get great traction with even junky tires.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

Man all this talk is making me really excited to get my car all back together. Im shooting for ~200rwhp and ~2600lbs with 4.30 gears...hoping I can break 13s

dvcn

I'll come clean on the ignition setup.

2 MSD 6A's, MSD Superconductor wires, 26* BTC Leading/16* BTC Trailing TOTAL timing. Rev limiter on both MSD's so that when I speedshift at 8500rpm it limits at around 9300rpm. Things happen fast with a Racing Beat aluminum flywheel!

1RevvinFC3S

Not to rank, but if you are barely pulling 13's with twelve psi and slicks, someone needs to learn how to drive just a tad bit better.

dvcn

Who is this directed at?

RETed

Sure, why don't you tell us how to get an FC down to 2400# now?

Why don't you tell us how much that 4.88 rear end is going to cost to install in an FC?

Why don't you also tell us what kinda gas mileage you get trying to street the car - can you even street it?



-Ted

dvcn

Are you saying it isn't possible to do weight reduction on an FC?

I would assume that a 4.88 in the FC would cost about as much as it did in the FB. I also stated that it didn't make that much of a difference, maybe 2/10ths.

Uh, streetable? I drive almost 100 miles round trip to the track on the short 205/55-14 555R's. Is that streetable? If I have to make really long, high speed trips I put on my other tires which are 225/70-14's which bring the effective gear ratio down to GTUs range. Gas miles with 205/60-14's (4.88 effective ratio) is 18mpg mixed driving. I'm pretty sure that this is better than 90% or the FC's I've seen. It is even better with the 225/60-14's.

Ted, the point of the post is that you don't have to go turbo, nitrous or ported to make 200+hp. You can do it by doing modifications that matter. You can make your car hit a particular number (1/4 mile time) by adjusting the power to weight ratio. Adding HP is not the only way to go faster. In fact, weight reduction not only makes your car faster in a straight line, it also brakes better, handles better, and is easier on parts, provided you maintain balance.

So, instead of this thread being encouragement to others, it has now turned into flaming. Thanks.

BDoty311

RETed

You have dyno sheet proving the car makes 200 to the wheels?&nbsp I find this a little hard to believe.

Getting and FC down to 2600 is relatively easy.&nbsp Getting it down to 2400 is really expensive or time-consuming and makes the car extremely noisy and basically unstreetable.&nbsp Of course, everyone's idea of "streetable" is different.

My point is that you come in here starting a thread like that and all the NA owners go ga-ga about trying to do the same.&nbsp Last time I checked, that 4.88 rear end is at least $300?&nbsp Not to mention I can barely do a ring and pinion swap myself, which adds to more labor costs to get a shop to do it right - I estimate at least $500 for the whole deal for most people.&nbsp .2?&nbsp If that's all you got, something is pretty wrong.&nbsp It's a 19% increase in ratio, and that's closer to .5 seconds?



-Ted

88IntegraLS

Reted bashes anyone who pushes the NA envelope; don't let him get to you. He was all over Ito's port job a while back. I am sure Mazdaspeed7 has something to say about this, too.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

Yes, getting N/A to run 13s is not cheap, or easy. I spent $300 on my GTUs rear, ~$200header, ~200 Bonez cat, ~$300 Cat-back, ~$1500 engine rebuild (doing it myself, besides the port), a few hundered in Misc, weight reduction, etc... Thats close to $2500 just in mods, which In a T2 you can probably break 12s, I am am praying I will be able to hit 13s. Well find out in the spring when its all together. But the fact is, if your end goal is to have a real fast car, go T2. I am just building my N/A for fun, high 13s will be plenty for me at this moment, and I just wanna see what I can do staying N/A.

RETed

Yeah, I guess you didn't read the rest of the thread.&nbsp Nice you know you read only half.

For the record, the whole beef with Judge Ito was a bit of miscommunication due to the quality of the pics that were posted.&nbsp We cleared all of that up between me and him - get your facts straight before posting false accusations like that.

As for Mazdaspeed7, I never said anything bad about him, but I've seen a lot of disgruntled customers.&nbsp I don't hold him as high in respect for such bad feedback.

Why don't you pull out more names?&nbsp rotarygod?&nbsp Gefunk?

Funny, you don't mention any of the folks that have no problems with me...


-Ted

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

I dont really think Reted bashes people who build N/As, but Im sure he is just a little tired of people who think they can slap an intake and exhaust on their N/A and be busting out low 14sec timeslips. There seems to be a lot of people on this forum that think that. Builing a N/A to be fast has to be something you really want to do, if not you will just be dissapointed and frustrated.

88IntegraLS

Ok my bad. Yeah, the Ito thread got boring after the flames went out so I stopped reading.

I have a sore spot for turbo guys making it sound like quick NA's (sub 14.99 range) are not streetable.

For instance, start with an FC that is already 2600lbs. (base mdl), then take another 200 lbs off, do a good street port, intake, exhaust, short tires and good rubber and it is not unlikely to make 14.99 at the track.

Stock they make 16 with a good driver on a good day (again, the base mdl.). One second knocked off the ET with the above mentioned mods is not far-fetched. For example, look at Roy James' sig one time. He is in the mid 14 range and quite streetable.

persid

My stock 86' with a Sparco Sprint seat weighs in at #2450 with steel wheels. With a few things removed and a CS single catback, I expect it to be closer to #2400. Not all that hard, is it?

BDoty311

Give me an SAFC,LSD, GXL wheels with decent tires, and an aftermarket Y-pipe and I bet I could get a damn low 14 or 13 sec pass and be very streetable.

RETed

Oh, I didn't say it's impossible.&nbsp I'm claiming it's improbably.&nbsp I knew a guy who busted a 14.07, so 13's are not out of the question, but it's very difficult.&nbsp The original poster had some serious mods done to his ride, and I think most FC owners are not willing (or can't afford) most of them.&nbsp The highest power FC NA I've heard of was 180hp to the wheels.&nbsp This is basically almost every bolt-on out there with a streetport.

I'd really like to SEE a streetport FC NA put down 200hp at the wheels.&nbsp This I've never seen YET.

It's not about turbo owners bustin' on NA owners.&nbsp To each their own, but there are a bunch of NA owners who got a chip on their shoulder who have probbaly never been in a mildly powerful FC turbo.&nbsp I am all about keeping it real.

The FC NA will probably hit a high 13, but to go faster takes a lot of money and skill.&nbsp By then, the turbo would've easily busted into the 11's.

I don't know why this ALWAYS turns into a turbo versus NA bitchfest.&nbsp All I wanted was a dyno sheet...


-Ted

dvcn

I NEVER stated that I made 200hp at the wheels.

No dyno just physics from one of the many ET calculators. I use http://www.rx7turboturbo.com/robrobinette/et.htm

In the 'New Drag Times Thread' thread I admit to somewhere between 200-210hp at the flywheel. This is from a certified scale reading of 2420lbs and reverse calculating hp. The actual number I come up with is 205hp at the flywheel and that equates to around 175hp at the rear wheels. I really don't feel that these are unreasonable numbers.

You don't think a streetport FC can put down 200rwhp or approx 234hp at the flywheel? These aren't huge numbers.

Ted, was the 180rwhp FC streetport with every bolt on properly tuned? What was ignition total timing at 7500rpm? Define what 'every bolt on' is. Dyno tuned stand alone ECU? Three CDI boxes? Long dual exhaust? Every bolt on match ported?

Yes, a equally tuned turbo engine will blow an NA away. Same goes with nitrous or a blower. That's not the point. The point is that it is possible to extract very reliable speed from an NA, even a stock high mileage unported NA. As with anything, NA, turbo, nitrous or blower, you have to do your homework. Things don't happen by just slapping on parts.

BlackRx7

hehe sorry Ted but it costs money to dyno...and there's a reason why we live in San Antonio, ITS CHEAP...you don't need 200 hp to run 13s just a light car with a good driver....and you don't even need to really change the rear end..just run smaller wheels, you'd be suprised how much 13" wheels change the rearend ratio..plus there lighter!!


I'm assuming this is driected at me since I have the turbo....first of all I wasn't using slick, second I was runing stock timing, third the untuned 720s are killing my topend hp because there so rich, forth how I am not a good driver when I got a 1.94 60ft WITH WHEEL HOP???

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

I agree with most your post, but that 1/4 mile calculator is junk. How can it accurately determine a time without factors such as gearing, torque, etc....

dvcn

The calculator isn't perfect, but it is fairly close as long as there aren't really strange factors. The calculator assumes decent traction, but not necessarily a drag race suspension and slicks. The one I use also throws in a 17% difference between flywheel and rear wheel hp.

It uses physics. It does take X amount of force to accelerate a mass at a certain rate. This part of it is exact.

It is just a tool.

Rxmfn7

iTrader: (4)

I understand, it may give you a decent idea, but a 200HP v-8 and a 200HP rotary are quite different, as well as a auto vs standard,gearing, powerband, and so on. Im sure you understand this, just saying.... I wouldnt be basing too much faith on that calculator.