silverrotor

iTrader: (1)

I have an Interest In knowing what the horse power would be. My mechanic (who specializes In Rotaries) tells me that with functional 5th - 6th ports you will have a net of "about 10 horse".

I Installed Pineapple's Sleeves recently. I asked Rob (at PR) what would be the net HP, besides functional Ports - just the sleeves? He claims 5- 10 HP.

I will be Installing these today on my FC, with the addition of freshly machine cleaned Fuel Injectors, freshly cleaned Oil Injectors, new OMP lines, re-grounded engine, and my personal favourite, scrubbed carbon-free and polished Intake with consists of Upper/ Lower, Dynamic Chamber, Throttle Body etc.

Has anybody dynoed or know for sure the gains with functional 5th - 6th ports? Also, with the addition of Pineapple Racing's sleeves?

rico05

Well, functioning auxillary ports does little in the way of actual hp, but it does add more bottom end torque. Mazda did not design them for hp, but simply for decreased air flow for added torque in the bottom of the power band. Now, removed, or Pineapple's glued open, increase top end flow, which translates into higher top end pull. Either way, it is not a hp mod per say, but a power band enhancer.


Disclaimer: This is my assumption from what I have read and seen. I have non-functioning 5th and 6th ports, and my car pulls much better above 3k than it did before, and I have had a minimal loss in bottom end torque.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

There is no gain in HP ot TQ if you remove them, you actually loose TQ at the bottom. Did you had functioning 6 ports before?

rico05

Sure did. I wanted to remove the Air pump, so the ports had to go. I am porting the manifolds real soon, so I am removing the stock ports, and installing Pinneapple racing ones, and gluing them open.

Samps

Now that I have a custom 6th ports set-up and VDI. I wish I could let each and every one of you guys ride in my car. I can now adjust exactly when the ports and the VDI open up. And LET ME MAKE THIS VERY CLEAR, they make a VERY noticable difference. I can shut them off totaly or open them up totaly and it is like night and day. Now finding the right rpm to open them, is becoming my next nightmare. I believe that the stock opening positions were ideal for the stock set-up; but with a good bit of modifications the stock points are a bit off. I have found a decent improvement by making them open a little earlier. The only draw-back is the fluctuation (sp?) of the pressure as the two systems open. On the stock system there is a constant pressure for them to work; but with a direct line off of the air pump, when the ports begin to open, there is a slight drop in pressure and the ports seem to bounce thier way open along with the VDI. It makes for a rough transition into the opening stages but there is deffinitely more power. I have no dyno results; I use one large up-hill two laner. I know exactly what rpm I start out at on the bottom and at where I check my speed. I have seen about a 3mph increase with my new set-up. I have no idea what that means, but I know it means my car is now faster. Call my methods "crude" but they are cheap and easily attained.

rico05

Yo Samps....what set up are you running? Electronically controlled? Got a how to? Or how about you sell the set up!! If you wanna make some $$$, I would DEFINATLY buy an electronically controlled VDI and aux port set up!!

Bambam7

To the guy a few posts up that said there is no gain by removing the sleeves...
This is NOT true.
On an engine that is not stock, and if flowing more air at higher RPM's, you will gain power at high rpm's by removing the sleeves altogether.
This removes the sleeves, which restrict the diameter of the port quite a bit, and also the actuating rod, as well at the crossbar.

Yes, you will lose low end power any time the aux ports aren't able to close, but by opening this up much more on the high end, peak power is increased. It depends on your mods and the power you need. I personally don't car how much power I have at 2000 rpms. I'll gladly take the few extra high end that it gives me.

rico05

I agree w/ Bamabm (actually I am now folloing his mod list as my future!! hope that is cool Bam!!) The loss in bottom end was marginal to say the least. N/A's have little torque stock, so you learn to launch, and it dosen't really matter.

Samps

I just copied and pasted this from another discusion but here is a vague discription of my set-up. I'll get some pics for you guys soon. I have a few other pics you guys will be juicing to see also ....

I'm using a single open ended hose running off of the air-pump about a foot long. At the end of the hose is a hose clamp. There are two vacuum lines tapped into this large hose; one running to the 6th ports and one running to the VDI. Now the hose clamp and vacuum line leanths are what I use to adjust the opening positions. The tighter I close down the hose clamp the earlier the systems open. And to fine tune it; I cut small pieces of vacuum hose off to make the tract a little shorter. I have held off on the real fine tuning untill I get the hose clamp exactly where I want it. It has a few draw backs but it is simple and cheap. And best of all, it works! The only real problem is the drop in pressure in the lines when the systems start to open, which causes the actuators to kind of bounce open. At full throttle this bouncing open makes the car sorta jerk a little. I will deal with this issue as soon as I figure out how to. All in all I like it; it is a step in the right direction anyways. I now have no ACV or ANY solenoids, and I still have a functional 6th ports and VDI system!

Let me tell you about having only like 4 vacuum lines.

Some of that stuff was redundant but hey; I aint typing it out again.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Show me Dyno proof! My car has seen both sides, and there is NO real proof for this. Unless you port the the 5 & 6 port, you won't see any HP gain by removing them, you are still limited by the size of the stock port. Now if you port the port itself, it will be a good idea to modifiy the way the air flows on those ports and\or remove them, that is the only way I can see how you may gain hp wihout them.

Other than that the modified pineapple racing sleeves are the way to go!

rico05

I think the answer to the original question still stands: No hp loss or gain either way. Just a shift in the power band. For street, yeah, keep those puppies workin. For top end, chunk em...

dre_2ooo

6-ports being opened have brought cars from low 17 ET's to high 15's.....

Like my sig?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Nope still wrong, the sleeves are the exact same size as the ports (minus the thickness of the sleeves). You don't get any HP at the top by just removing them, if you think the 90 degrees shape of the sleeves is bad, check the contour on the stock 5&6 ports without the sleeves................talk about a bad design!!

rico05

Sorry, KNOFS, but you gotta slow down and read bro!! I NEVER said it would give you horse power, but the power curve would change. I fully understand how ports work, and I would never tell someone something that I knew was incorrect. Re-read all that has been said. No body said it will give you more hp, it just changes the power band!!

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Could you please explain me the above sentence? It doesn't make any sense to me, if you don't loose hp or gain hp, why tossing them?

Just changes in powerband? Sorry man, is just hard to swallow.

rico05

Keep em, more torque in the bottom, but more restriction in the top end. Ditch em, lass torque, more air flow in the top end, more "pull" as you accelerate above 3k RPM. This is how I understand it. I am waiting for RETed, Icemark, or HAILERS to show up and make me look like a dumbass. Hell, I am probally wrong, I am just speaking from what I have experienced. Without em, I can literally feel a difference in top end acceleration, and a slight loss in torque.

ka8legend

Sorry Rico, I got kinda confused too about the shift in powerband.
I think the torque curve will be comprised at the bottom end. I noticed it on my former 87gxl with mazdatrix true dual exhaust when slipping it at 1500rpm. In terms of a shift in the power band, it’s realistically a dip in the torque curve in below 3800rpm. That power band shift implies a loss in one part of the range is made up (more power) in another range. But it really isn’t; a loss in the bottom end is not made up for in the top end since a working aux port system produces just as much top end as one which is ziptied open; dyno chart should reveal that clearly.
But I do believe the actuating mechanism does present flow restriction/turblence and so I would modify the PR sleeve by punching out the little rod across the sleeve as well as the rotating valve on the lower intake; then lock them open and start slipping a bit higher.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Hey rico, sorry for giving you a hard time

The thing the I don't agree is that you will have more airflow by just removing them. As I said before, the contour at the end of the plate on the 5&6 ports are very undfriendly to the way the air flows, even worst than the stock sleeves.

bcty

ok awnser this question.. if i remove them altogether will i benefit morethen just wireing them open?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Probably not.

No7Yet

I've been thinking about this, and have a few ideas. The first is the simplest so I'm going to start there Try getting ahold of some orifices (some "boost control pills") of various sizes - that should act to smooth the pulses and stop the flutter. It'll also make opening/closing more gradual, so you'll have to take that into account in the tuning.

As for the proper RPM at which to open/close the various systems, you'll simply need to make some dyno pulls. Make the first with the 6PI and VDI completely closed. Then open the 6PI completely. Where the power curves cross is your 6PI opening point. Make your next pull with the VDI completely enabled. Again, where the curves cross, it should open. It's a very old dyno tuning trick (if you could even call it a "trick")

Brandon